[Lauren Helen Graham]

I already felt bad for him when I saw it first because I knew that if he didn't want to tell her, if he refused to tell her, it would be something really bad and he only did it to protect her. I already understood Red as a character and I knew that it had to be something like that.

Miranda, we don't even know if the burn marks are from the night of the fire... I guess they are but at the moment we don't have any proof for that.

We never really knew which position Kat Goodson had, did we? In the CIA I mean...

The bunny thing wasn't random at all... The only really odd thing in the memory scenes was that living bunny and the coincidence that she had a stuffed bunny herself. I would have guessed it to be there, too if I was her.

[Miranda]

I had a look at Kat Goodson's position and she is a member of the Cabal and she is Deputy Director of the National Clandestine Service.

I know we don't have any proof that Red's burns are from the night of the fire but I think it's highly likely that he got them during that fire.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

The NCS? What's this... Now I'm even more confused. And she's a member of the Cabal, too? How do we know that? It never was mentioned and she was never shown with the Cabal and I never heard her voice when the woman of the Cabal were talking. I doubt that, really.

Miranda, I agree on the burn marks But maybe something else happened that we don't know about yet?
But yeah, I as well think it's Red lying on the floor which makes me wonder what happened when Liz was carried out the house and if Red really was the one bringing her to Sam.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

S E A S O N 2 R E - W A T C H



x

Since we're on Hiatus and since our show tends to give us more information than our brain can work through, it's time for our yearly re-watch!
This time it'll be season 2.

We'll continue with t w o episode a week, because otherwise we won't be able to finish the re-watch before the new season starts.

I'll set up a new episode each S u n d a y and T h u r s d a y, so enjoy this one for now and don't forget to discuss it with us!

[Lauren Helen Graham]

Guys, I was busy today already and saw all two Luther Braxton episodes And man, I love them both sooo much!

First of all, before I forget it... We know that in season 2 somebody messed with Liz's memory again. Shall it be regarding the night of the fire (and we still don't know if this was the reason at all), I wanted to bring over that one sentence of Orchard:

"I'm telling you, that the only people who could tell you what really happened, are the people, that want you to forget."

So, who could be the people that want her to forget so badly? I still believe that Red told her the truth. He originally blocked her memory, he even admitted it to her. And he as well told her that he wasn't the one who again tried to mess with her memory and I damn believe him! So, who could be another person who wants her to forget so badly?

Besides, I somehow believe that Liz shot her father (aka Red maybe) and since she remembered leaving her father dying on the floor in a burning house, it's possible that after she shot him, he was lying there and she recalled him leaving. She could have missed out the shooting of his. It all really could have been Red. The only thing that I don't like about it is her memory of him being rude to her mother and that being the reason she shot him Besides, she knew it was her father there... I still believe it was her father she shot. But was it really her mother?
I know, I might be confusing here but yeah... Sorry.

[Miranda]

Whoa you have been busy Kris and that early!

I won't have time to watch this one since I am going to be gone all day today and I am going on vacation tomorrow. Or maybe I'll watch it when I get back.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

Yes, I know... It's about time and today I had lots of time therefore...

You can catch up when you get back, Miranda I at least would love it because the episode is amazing

[Fangirl49]

Ive got to watch it. My internet connection is crap today so idk if I will.

I just had to comment. Who else could want her to forget? Not Red. I beleive him as well. We know she remembered what he wanted forgotten.

I too think she shot her father and he died. I don't think red would lie. Just who all was in the house and when did it happen.

Ok kaplans memory is that Liz father had kidnapped her. Katarina was trying to get her back. And "our" Red is maybe the Raymond that katarina mentions who knows Sam. So if katarina went to get Liz back from "Red" why is she working with him at the end. We also know from Red that he couldn't save them both so he chose Marsha. Implying that he got her out of the fire not Katarina. Damn it I'm about to talk myself into the Red is Katarina theory.

So I got to watch it. My favorite scene is when that guy tells Red 15 seconds wont matter and Red beats the crap out of him. And why didn't you remind me this is the I told you so episode. I absolutely love that scene with Red and Luther. Red is smiling and yet he looks positively lethal.

I tried to pay attention to the brain washing part. So first we hear a man hide Liz. That man didn't sound like Red. Then Liz says where is she. Maybe that is Katarina coming. But she hears them arguing about the fulcrum. Why would they be arguing about that if Kat is there to save Liz? And the man says his life depends on it. So is that lizs father she's arguing with? Did kat steal the fulcrum to trade for Liz? But Liz had it the whole time. Could Red be there looking for the fulcrum by coincidence?

I'm actually wondering if Red kidnapped Liz to make Katarina give him the fulcrum. But that goes against what we know.

I love when Red finds Liz. He is not going to continue letting Liz go through this if it will hurt her. I love the scene. And I never noticed it before but I beleive Liz is hearing Red in her mind telling her don't go in the room. Instead look for the fulcrum. He knows what happened. That she killed her father. And he is trying to stop her from finding out

I made myself watch the red Liz ending even though I hate it. How we go from so much affection to her accusing him again. She never gives him a chance. She just assumes he is not there for her. Just the fulcrum and she's wrong.

Here's a thought. How did the fulcrum get in the rabbit. I remember Kate sewing it up.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

Like I said, if the second session in general was about the night of the fire We don't know that. But who could want her to forget and why?

I think she shoot her father... But did Red really acknowledge, EVER, that Liz actually killed her father? I really want to know if she said: "I killed my father." and him answering: "Yes." I don't think he ever did.

Yes, Red had to choose between Masha and Katarina. But we don't know that it was in the night of the fire, right? So it could very well have occured afterwards. Which somehow isn't possible, right? Because Kaplan brought Masha to Sam without seeing Katarina ever again.

YES! It's the 'I told you so' episode I had to laugh as well when I re-watched it.

The talk lets it seem as if Katarina had sold the guy there... As if she told the other woman and the people who were with that other woman that the guy has the Fulcrum. Maybe Katarina (if it was her) was torn between protecting Masha and keeping Red safe? What if she had to made a decision? What if they are fighting because of the Fulcrum, the guy trying to protect Masha and himself by not giving it to her and that's how Masha ends up shooting him?

I as well think that Liz heard Red there. He asked her and she was nodding. I guess that could have been the reason she knew he was there. I somehow doubt that she would have recognized him in these memories, right?

The ending... Yeah, while being searching her memories, she's even taking his hand because she needs that support, she wants him there it appears. And afterwards, she's screaming at him to let her be. It's so heartbreaking. And shall he really be her father, it would all make sense. Seeing the little boy running into Orchard's arms and Liz distancing herself so violently from him

[Fangirl49]

I need to see the ending of S2 because I think he says it. And he references it again in S3. But I don't know his exact words.

I get your point about anothe or woman being there and I agree. We hear all these voices and we don't know who is who and why each person is there. It's like 2'different things are going on. Could her memories be that confused that she is remembering two different nights? Because we know Katarina is looking for Liz. And someone is looking for the fulcrum from Katarina, I think. And now that I'm thinking about it, it seems odd that all this would be happening on the same night. I don't know anymore.

I as well think she hears Red in her mind. Because she says he was there and he says the memories of a 4 year old are unreliable. I think if she heard "memory Red voice" she might not recognize it. It seems like his voice deepened as he aged.

[Lauren Helen Graham]

It's the wording and the gestures that count... I need to re-watch these moments, too.

I think it really could have happened all in one night. We know that Katarina was looking for Masha that night but what Kaplan might not have known is that the Fulcrum was a topic already and that Katarina not only went to get Masha back but the Fulcrum, too.

I, too think that she wouldn't have recognized his younger selfs voice or what he looked like... She would only know that he was there because of the way he is guiding her through her memories.

[Fangirl49]

Omg you're right. You are freaking right. Katarina had lost the fulcrum when she lost Liz. And the kidnapper didn't know he had it.

Unless the kidnapped put it back n the rabbit. But I don't believe that.

So what about Kate sewing the rabbit. Where was the fulcrum then?

[Lauren Helen Graham]

It's a possibility. But he knew at least that it existed... And yes, it's also possible that he put it in there.

I'm still not at the point in my re-watch of season 4 that I had seen the flashback episode... Hopefully I'll get to it soon.

[Fangirl49]

I just watched this again. Right before Liz wakes up from the drug she sees three men. One of those men I believe is Red because she wakes up looks at Red and says you were there. How did I miss this?

[Lauren Helen Graham]

You missed this, really? Marilyn... I somehow think we tend to forget things?