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Old 06-26-2016, 07:29 AM
  #31
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Arinna - Just out of curosity, I don't want to start a political debate, but do YOU personally feel like you'd rather be part of Russia? I obviously understand the long reaching historical ties, through the Cold War and before but aligning yourself with Putin who obviously has no respect for the autonomy of other countries (see Ukraine)? If it's a question of Turkey – you know, I personally think it'd be grave mistake to let them in. They have no place in the EU. And I don't think this is going to happen.

Barbara - I'm really sorry. I suspect ultimately you'll have to get a visa and a work permit, both things will probably depend on your employer. But right now I don't think there's any need for panic or action –*that divorce will take at least two years. I'm shocked and disappointed too – especially since I have applied for some post doc positions in the UK and I was always somewhat anglophile.

Alex - Nothing has happened yet. Britain will have to assert Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty to start to process of leaving the EU. However, while Cameron has resigned he apparently plans to stay on till October, probably because none of the candidates that are being put forward for the position as new PM, even though they are from the Brexit faction, are brave enough to take up the gauntlet. Meanwhile the referendum is not legally binding and the way I understand it, a petition of only 100,000 voters to parliament would obligate the latter to consider a second referendum. In a sense I cannot fault Cameron for not wanting to start the proceedings (although prior to the referendum he said he would do so immedidately, yet what he did was resign instead), after all he campaigned to 'remain' and it'd be like asking him to shoot himself in the foot. But right now I feel that I absolutely agree with Jean-Marc Ayrault (French Foreign Minister) –

Quote:
« Il faut dire aux Britanniques qu'on ne peut pas attendre. [...] Bien sûr, il faut désigner un nouveau premier ministre. Ça demande sans doute quelques jours. Mais il y a une certaine d'urgence. [...] Il y en va des intérêts [...] des Européens, à ce qu'on ne laisse pas une période que je dirais d'incertitude. »
In a polite way he's telling them – you made your bed now lie in it. As well as let's make this quick, I wish you'd been gone for real like... the day before yesterday.

Quote:
the USA has expats living in Europe
Yeah but just like it is the other way around – you'll either have to be married to a citizen (and even then you have to pay for some sort of spousal visa) or you have to have a work visa and a work permit, all of which your employer has to pay for. So it's not that easy from what I understand. I mean in the end it's a question of – how much does the company gain from employing you versus somebody they wouldn't have to buy a visa for.

And that's all I'm going to say about this. I was disappointed and distraught on Friday. Today I'm pretty much over it. In a way I'm sorry because basically half of the British people voted to remain but at this point I honestly hope that the EU doesn't give them some namby-pamby special treatment and makes the renegotiation of any kind of trade acts as hard as possible.

On the bright side though – even though I'm not that much into football –*but! Barbara – Quarter final, yay, Allez les Bleus !!!
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Old 06-26-2016, 01:29 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki K (View Post)
Arinna - Just out of curosity, I don't want to start a political debate, but do YOU personally feel like you'd rather be part of Russia? I obviously understand the long reaching historical ties, through the Cold War and before but aligning yourself with Putin who obviously has no respect for the autonomy of other countries (see Ukraine)? If it's a question of Turkey – you know, I personally think it'd be grave mistake to let them in. They have no place in the EU. And I don't think this is going to happen.
There was a time when Bulgaria was politically stable and the economy was working. Yes, that was before 1989 when we've had a closer ties with Russia. And to understand the connection Bulgaria has with Russia, it's pretty tough I know. Also, the geo-political map that Bulgaria was always in is pretty complicated. Plus, I always think that the nickle has two sides.
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Old 06-26-2016, 02:13 PM
  #33
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Well, a lot of things were different before 1989. It's also a question of at what cost that stability was achieved, no? The economy is bad everywhere these days. And the EU has put quite a lot of money into its East European member states. You obviously applied for membership at one point, nobody forced you. It's nothing personal but if you're seeking a union with Russia instead perhaps that needs to be debated. Not between you and me obviously but on a government level.

In more uplifting news, I just got myself a Rainbow Brite T-Shirt!
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You might want to rethink marrying the lines "Kids are dead! Kids are dead!" ("Happy days are here again.").

Last edited by Nikki K; 06-26-2016 at 02:41 PM
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Old 06-26-2016, 02:42 PM
  #34
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Hi, Nina! Yes, Arinna has told me much of the same regarding Bulgaria's relationship with Russia. I get the sense that they don't think much of the EU, although I can't speak for all of them. And I agree about Turkey; they may be an important part of NATO, but it's not necessary to have them in the EU.

Thanks for reassuring Barbara because she's really upset, as I can see you are as well. I really do hope that she'll be able to stay in the UK and that it won't be too complicated or costly for her. Yeah, I've heard about Cameron leaving in October and I know that this is gonna take a while for the UK to leave. Yes, I've also heard about the vote for a second referendum which has gotten over 3 million votes so far, so I'm guessing that Parliament is gonna have to look into it sooner or later. And ouch, that's pretty harsh coming from the French Foreign Minister.

Wow, that's an awful lot of effort to become an American expat living in Europe.

Again, I'm really sorry for you and Barbara for what happened and I only hope that things will be okay for both of you.

OMG, I remember Rainbow Brite!

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Old 06-26-2016, 03:24 PM
  #35
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I just feel very strongly that you shouldn't be in a club only to reap some benefits it may bring and otherwise feel nothing but contempt for the organisation. Especially in today's political climate I feel that we need to pull together to prevent more disaster or even war.

Quote:
Wow, that's an awful lot of effort to become an American expat living in Europe.
Well, it's the same the other way around. I honestly dread the whole process if I go back to work in NY, which now seems unfortunately more likely a scenario... along with the prospect of living in NY. I suspect that thankfully it's easier and less costly for universities to get visa for their staff/researchers than it is for private companies and their employees.

As for Ayrault, I actually quite agree with him. Cameron said that he'd trigger Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty as soon as the results are in but he did not. Instead we have to wait for his successor, whatever right-wing ninnyhammer that will be, in October. But we cannot wait for any delaying tactics as this state of uncertainty will only hurt us more financially and economically. At this point I wish Britain would unilaterally withdraw from the EU by simply repealing the 1972 European Communities Act. It would save us all a lot of grief. Whatever happens, I certainly hope we will not break down somewhere along the way, get all namby-pamby and grant them preferential (trade) agreements. Don't get me wrong, I'm sorry for all of them who voted 'remain' and for obvious reasons my family has always been anglophile. But to those who rejoice in "having their country back" – well, grow some balls and piss off quickly, instead of stirring the wound and putting us all through two and then some years of negotiations following the Article 50 process. I know that's probably a controversial opinion and I try to avoid those but well. Can't be helped.

All that being said, of course that won't happen. Even those UKIP tossers will want to try and milk us for whatever they can get. So yeah... no, you are not free, you are still a member until these withdrawl negotiations are over in two and a half years or so and meanwhile you do not have a seat at the table to influence anything.

As for asking for a second referendum – yes, I suppose parliament has to consider it no matter how loud UKIP yells that democracy has won and all the whingers and ***** that voted 'remain' should shut the hell up. However, I doubt it will happen –*I mean, I'm sorry, you can't re-draw the lottery just because you didn't like the result. And it was made quite clear to them in advance that they would not be able to buy another ticket.

I'm sorry, I guess I've reached the anger state in my grieving process. I know I said it before but I shall attempt to say no more.

I totally adore "Rainbow Brite" – Stormy was a character in the movie "Rainbow Brite and the Star Steeler" – so that's the shirt I got!
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Happy thoughts,
Nina

You might want to rethink marrying the lines "Kids are dead! Kids are dead!" ("Happy days are here again.").

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Old 06-26-2016, 03:44 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikki K (View Post)
I'm sorry, I guess I've reached the anger state in my grieving process. I know I said it before but I shall attempt to say no more.

I totally adore "Rainbow Brite" – Stormy was a character in the movie "Rainbow Brite and the Star Steeler" – so that's the shirt I got!
I know, and I understand, Nina. I'm sorry for forgetting which country you're in. I know you're in Europe, and I know you've traveled to the UK and the USA. But I've heard from people in Europe and the UK all over Fan Forum and most are really shocked and devastated by this. Like I said, I just hope Europe and the UK can come through this okay because I know a lot of people are worried and afraid for the future.

Aww, that's an adorable t shirt! And that's a very nice shade of purple!
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Old 06-26-2016, 03:50 PM
  #37
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Like I said, I just hope Europe and the UK can come through this okay because I know a lot of people are worried and afraid for the future.
I appreciate the sentiment but I honestly doubt it. I think Europe has a chance if we rid ourselves of the UK as fast as possible, sad as it is. I'll PM you.

And yes, isn't it just perfectly adorable?
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Old 06-26-2016, 03:58 PM
  #38
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Okay, thanks. And yes, the shirt is adorable.

I just hope that France, Sweden, and other countries don't follow suit. And while I do hope Europe will be okay, I also hope the UK will as well because I know people like Barbara who live there and I don't want anything bad to happen.
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:18 PM
  #39
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Quote:
I just hope that France, Sweden, and other countries don't follow suit.
I highly doubt it. There was an article regarding why this won't or actually even can't happen –*mainly because in most countries the instrument of a 'referendum' is only a advisory function to the parliament plus I think in mainland Europe we simply have not these allusions of having to restore our lost empire. And if we're really honest the UK was never all in –*we constantly had to give them exemptions and preferential treatment... all this dating back to Thatcher. We've enjoyed the longest stretch of peace in Europe since... well ever thanks to the ECC and the EU. Since I now know that Arinna doesn't care for the EU, I can surely say without causing too much offence, that if there was something that went really wrong it was letting in all these East European countries who were not ready to join. Though I read that at least Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania are extremely appreciative as they are afraid to be swallowed by Russia again.

As for the UK, I lack sympathy here – they did it to themselves. And I doubt it. At least not for a good while. As for Barbara – well, I'm obviously sorry but I understand she's a French citizen so that in itself gives you lots of opportunities though they might not be in the UK... just as I am sorry for all my lost job prospects and for half the population of the UK who didn't want this.
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:22 PM
  #40
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Aww... I'm sorry, Nina. Are you certain your job prospects are gone? I really hope there's something you can do. And that's why Barbara is so worried, because she's a French citizen living in England, and I'm hoping she'll be able to stay where she is and not relocate.

Do Poland and Ukraine have ties to the EU? I know that a lot of the Eastern European countries, as you've said, really weren't ready to join, but I think a lot more of the northern countries in Eastern Europe were more ready than the others.
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:35 PM
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Well, I expect they are since with the UK leaving it also means that EU research grants are gone. I'm not entirely sure how much of the money on the projects I applied for comes from the EU but I wager quite some. And then there's the visa and work permit question. It's altogether a disaster for research and education funding – I mean I can't imagine that won't be cut in order to fix more pressing matters.

Poland is in the EU - happily accepting all possible subsidies we throw at them but once it comes to actually taking on a small part of responsibility like in the current refugee crisis, then their right-wing government rears its ugly xenophobic head. I'm just so tired of giving money and aid people who have only contempt for the institution who bails them out.
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Happy thoughts,
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You might want to rethink marrying the lines "Kids are dead! Kids are dead!" ("Happy days are here again.").
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:42 PM
  #42
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Seems like the EU should more properly vet its potential members. I would've thought that Poland would've been more receptive to the EU after what happened in WWII.

Oh, I'm sorry about that, Nina. I hope it won't be quite as bad as you say. Are you gonna look into things to make sure what's going to happen?
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:49 PM
  #43
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I can only wait for emails or letters that will tell me that they cannot make a decision at this point in time because of circumstances.

Well, it wasn't always like that – I suspect in 1993 people were a lot more optimistic and a lot of economical disasters hadn't happened yet. So it just is what it is now.

I'm just disillusioned and disappointed – people running away when times get tough, people not acknowledging the good things that happened because of being associated with others... I'm just not liking people very much at the moment.

Living in France is not the worst thing that can happen, I don't think... just imagine it'd be snake invested Guam.

Anyway... let's move on to happier things. Anything interesting on TV lately? Idk.
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Happy thoughts,
Nina

You might want to rethink marrying the lines "Kids are dead! Kids are dead!" ("Happy days are here again.").

Last edited by Nikki K; 06-26-2016 at 04:55 PM
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Old 06-26-2016, 04:55 PM
  #44
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Yeah, I guess that makes sense. And yes, Arinna and I got into Outlander, which is almost finished its second season. We're also watching all those superhero shows like Arrow and The Flash. But there hasn't been a lot this season that's interested me. In fact, I gave up on a couple of shows this past season. I'm hopeful that they'll be more shows that I'll like at the end of the year. I did get into the FX series The People vs. OJ Simpson: American Crime Story, though. And Fox's Scream Queens, which was funny.
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Old 06-26-2016, 05:07 PM
  #45
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Yeah, I watched "The People vs. OJ Simpson" – I felt you have to be American to understand all the emotions whiche were involved at the time. To me it was always abundantly clear that he was guilty.

So how many episodes of 'Outlander' was Stanley Weber in? I'm still on the fence here.

Idk – I felt there wasn't much lately to get excited about... I'm glad "The Americans" got renewed it's probably one of the few things I'll still watch. I was extremely disappointed that "Manhattan" got cancelled that was such a brilliant show.

So what did you give up on?
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Happy thoughts,
Nina

You might want to rethink marrying the lines "Kids are dead! Kids are dead!" ("Happy days are here again.").
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