PhoenixRising

Believe me, I've said the same things you have, Nina. But there are things about Jamie I like. He's generally a decent guy, and is even trusting and respectful of Frank, and has a pretty good opinion of him. It's basically Claire I have issues with.

Nikki K

Yeah, see, I don't buy it though, if you are really respectful of the other guy, you don't get with his wife. What bothers me is that we are supposed to perceive both Claire and Jaime as honourable and good people. I strongly resent the notion that only the person in the relationship is the cheater. I think anyone who is getting together with someone who is in another relationship, should know better.

And again, don't get me wrong – I've shipped Hallam/Persie on "Upstairs, Downstairs" – they are both horrible, horrible people and no, I don't think what they are doing to Agnes is okay in any way or form but it's entertaining to watch them being such horrible human beings together and the show doesn't pretend any different. Meanwhile "Outlander" wants to make us believe that it's okay.

I mean – just to come a bit back on topic, it's why I had trouble warming to Giulia on "The Borgias" because he hurt Vanozza so much in the beginning although it turned out in the end that it was probably a good thing for Vanozza to distance herself from Rodrigo and Giulia didn't get happy with him either. It was easier for me to like Giulia on "Borgia" – she was entertaining because she was really horrible and just looking out for her and her brother's best interests but she didn't hurt Vanozza.

PhoenixRising

Yeah, but Jamie is dealing with all this time travel stuff, and he's a 16th century man having to reconcile himself with all of this. Should he feel guilty because of a man who hasn't been born yet? Does it even count as infidelity? It's much easier for me to lay more blame on Claire because she knows better.

Wow, Upstairs, Downstairs. That's a title I haven't heard since I was a kid watching Masterpiece Theater on PBS.

Nikki K

I think these are rhetorical questions - if Jaime really believes that Claire is married then it doesn't matter when and where her husband is.

Yeah, good times, eh?

PhoenixRising

Oh, I know that, Nina. And I agree. I'm just taking into account that he's an 18th century man and this stuff is way over his head, that's all.

PBS was on all the time at my grandparent's house. My aunt got me into all things BBC, including Doctor Who. I also loved "Mystery" on PBS, which is where they played all those mystery shows and movies from the BBC. Jeremy Brett's The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes was on that.

Nikki K

I find that still hard to reconcile – he's always described as so cultured and intelligent after all. Again, unless he thinks Frank is just a figment of Claire's imagination and she is not really married, I don't think he has an excuse.

How about "Sapphire and Steele"?

PhoenixRising

I don't think I watched that one.


And yeah, you do have a point about Jamie.

Nikki K

Aww, you haven't? The scary mystery fantasy with Joanna Lumley? That's too bad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapphire_%26_Steel

BL.Arinna_1982

Alex would like it.

PhoenixRising

Wow, I never saw that one. Or if I did I didn't know what it was. That was a long time ago. I would've been 9 years old. I actually did remember Joanna Lumley from The New Avengers in the 1970's.

BL.Arinna_1982

Can we go back to Lotte, please?

PhoenixRising

Yeah, okay Arinna.

Nikki K

Uhm, I talked in a whole paragraph about Lotte's portrayal of Giulia and the implications of infidelity (in fictional characters) when shipping above.



Actress Lotte Verbeek attends Entertainment Weekly's Annual Comic-Con Celebration at Float at Hard Rock Hotel San Diego on July 26, 2014 in San Diego, California.

Source: zimbio.com

BL.Arinna_1982

I meant, Alex, Nina. And thanks for sharing those pics.

Nikki K

You're welcome, Arinna. I'll see what more I can find later!