PhoenixRising

Yeah, I'm curious about that too, Nina. I know it's time travel and everything, but unless they're gonna do some kind of retcon I don't know how Gellis is gonna show up. Unless she wasn't actually burned to death. We never actually saw it.

Nikki K

I think in the books, Colum doesn't let them burn her straight away because she's pregnant with Dougal's child so they burn her after she's given birth and Roger, Brianna's soon to be boyfriend is a decendant of hers, I think. But I only hazily remember all that, I stopped reading after the fourth book because if I'm honest I didn't particularly like the writing.

Ah okay...

PhoenixRising

Yep, I think that you're right. But did they burn her in the books? And at least they waited for her to have her baby. I'm surprised they didn't kill the child as a son of Satan. I always hated that witch burning nonsense. That, along with beheading.

Nikki K

See above. Well I think that was actually based on the fact that they did burn a woman by the name of Gellis Duncan in North Berwick, Scotland though I think that was earlier than the books timeline.

PhoenixRising

Ah ha! Thanks for that spoiler, Nina! So now we know that Lotte very well can come back in season 4. Honestly, after what Gillian/Gellis did to her husband in 1968, I'm not surprised.

I take it she had to change her name to Gellis because Gillian was not in common use at the time in the 16th century?

BL.Arinna_1982

Sounds interesting.

PhoenixRising

It is. Hopefully this means we can do watches here if Lotte returns.

And I put your pic of Lotte in spoiler tags, Arinna, because it was a bit too big.

Nikki K

Actually I don't know why she changed it, it's my understanding that the name 'Gillian' was around in the 16th century and bestowed on boys and girls alike, as a Scottish Gaelic name meaning St. John's servant. Meanwhile I think Geillis is an old Irish name made up of gel “shining, bright” + geis “swan” and was the name of several early Irish princesses. Maybe Gillian thought it was more pagan, less Christian and therefore preferred it?

Yeah, see that's one of my problems with the "Outlander" books - the characterisation is so one dimensional, especially where women are concerned. Like once a murderer, always a murderer... idek. Of course some people are actually evil and certifiable but I find that doesn't make for an interesting story. Take "The Three Musketeers" for example - I didn't really like the TV Show that much until they gave Milady de Winter a background that wasn't so one dimensional. I think even in most villains you want to see something you can relate to on some level.

BL.Arinna_1982

I've read only the first one of the books.

Nikki K

It's not like you missed anything. Like I said, I didn't care for them.

PhoenixRising

So Gillian was a name in use back then? And if Gillian wanted to change history, why would she take a name that was sure to arouse suspicion that she was a witch?

Well, I've already stated my own issues with how women are portrayed on Outlander, Nina. You're right, the characterizations are a problem, but my biggest problem has always been Claire. I've always told people that if the roles were reversed, if Claire were a man and Frank were a woman, not many people would think the story was romantic and they'd instead think of a man who just abandoned his wife in the present day and fell in love with some 16th century princess or maiden was a total cad.

BL.Arinna_1982

I know how you see Claire, Alex. However, this was how the author of the book has written her.

Nikki K

Yeah, who knows, Alex. I mean I can only surmise that as the reason because ... oh well, I don't know. In a sense it's even a bit funny since 'Geillis' seems to be more Irish than Scottish but anyway.

As for the romance –*yeah, you know, I never cared for it. As I said I didn't care for the writing, never really cared for the characters or the story if we're honest. I mean, the only reason to watch it objectively is because Tobias Menzies gives a brilliant performance in both of his roles. And subjectively, I've been watching because of the Borgias/Borgia connection for the sake of Lotte and Stanley.

PhoenixRising

Yeah, you have a point, Nina. Geillis would sound more Irish, I guess.

I know, I remember you telling me how you felt about the romance and the characterization, and how much you like Tobias. I just see it from a male perspective, which makes Claire seem... flighty. I think even Jamie got mad at her for making everything about herself. "When do I get to have my fulfillment? My purpose?"


I know, Arinna, I know.

Nikki K

Yeah, I know we are supposed to care for Jaime because he's so good looking and cultured and had such a hard upbringing and whatnot but I was just really really bored with the character. I had trouble understanding what Claire would see in him except for what Arinna pointed out "the author made it so" and perhaps her sense of needing a protector in this male dominated world, not knowing if/when she'd get home. In any event, didn't really care for two of the main characters which makes 'Outlander' a really tough sell for me.