PhoenixRising

Yep, Disney streaming probably means the end of the Netflix Marvel shows. Yeah, I agree that Luke Cage and Iron Fist probably suffered from their own problems, and I've said repeatedly that they should've done a Power Man & Iron Fist show featuring the two as a team like in the comics. The shows individually just seemed weak, as you said. But since Disney is starting their own streaming service, I'm guessing that this season of Daredevil and the coming season of The Punisher will be it for those shows. Disney isn't gonna want to have Netflix carry those shows once they start their own streaming service. I really don't like the idea of streaming at all because so much control ends up in the hands of the studios and the corporations.

I think that Cheryl works better as a character that isn't involved long term with anyone, to be honest. And Toni really doesn't serve much of a purpose anymore outside of simply being a female Serpent. I agree, they need to get Cheryl back into the Blossom family storyline and more closely involved with the core four, like Betty and Veronica.

I get the feeling that the Kevin/Moose storyline is just there for the sake of being there, which smacks of tokenism. I get that shows want to show diversity, but if the characters and their storylines don't really serve a purpose then it just insults the characters and the audience because they're not really actively involved in anything. And yeah, it does seem like their storyline is headed for something bad.

As far as Valerie and Melody, I've questioned what the Pussycats were even doing in this story to begin with. Josie and the Pussycats' claim to fame is having their own comic and cartoon where they're a globe-trotting band going around solving crimes like the Scooby gang, and even going into outer space at one point. Stranding them in Riverdale doesn't really allow the to do anything because the Riverdale storyline will always focus on Archie, Jughead, Betty, and Veronica.

I think the show really doesn't know what to do with Archie and Veronica now that they're paying so much fan service to "Bughead," which is really annoying. Instead of being four friends, they're focusing more on them being couples, and Archie and Veronica are getting the short end of the stick. They're also trying to balance out way too many storylines at once, which gets annoying.

Yeah, I expected that the whole "cult" thing was going to lack the aesthetics of Sabrina, but I was still hoping for a possible connection there. No such luck, I guess. And this is why I thought it was a mistake getting Molly Ringwald because her availability would be a question. Like I said, Robyn Lively would've been a better choice.

I do hope we get more FP/Alice, Nina! But I'm glad we got that scene, at least.

Nikki K

I like streaming because there is no need for an expensive cable subscription that has so many things I'll never watch plus the fact that nobody watches anything in real time anymore, I certainly can't, and it absolves me from getting devices like an actual TV and a DVR etc. –*I can just watch on my computer.

I think it depends on what audience Disney wants to target tbh.

I agree that Cheryl as a character loses her appeal in a longterm relationship. And I think that has nothing to do with Toni, it'd be the same if she were idek... Reggie or Sweatpea or whoever. I think she worked best in relation to everything sinister Blossom family related, then in scenes with Betty... I didn't mind her scenes with Archie tbh, as it was a conduit to explore her relationship with Jason more. I think it's funny when she pisses off Jughead. I'm not keen on her scenes with Veronica though –*the cattiness seems forced and there isn't much chemistry there.

No, I disagree. I don't think it's tokenism. In that sense it probably shouldn't be annoying –*because it shows realistically though it's 2018, not everyone will be secure enough to come out but rather have concerns about 'my father will not take that well' –*Moose's father does seem the type. I'd be inclined to concur that it may be tokenism if it were like Cheryl/Toni ... I mean, there was this brief moment where Cheryl was locked up in the conversion camp with the nuns but really otherwise everyone is super okay with it – but this for Kevin is clearly so much harder, Moose has doubts (maybe also because of Midge), "the boys" in Moose's group would surely not be okay with it, neither would his father and they are not headed for a happy ending. Plus this is not coming out of the blue, they were involved before in the beginning of season 1. So there is a real storyline here, just not an interesting one because it's very predictable. I'm not insulted by it per se, I even recognise it as in important issue –*there will always be hatred against minorities. But like I said the storyline is very transparent and headed for doom and not a joy to watch. I just find it's another ailment of having a cast that has grown too large and now they do not know what to do with the characters.

See, that's why it would be perfect to have kept the band intact –*they could have made guest appearances occasionally, especially now that the club is open... and otherwise allude to them touring the world. They could have set it up so that they would have made Josie, Valerie and Melody seniors in the first season or something... Valerie could have still helped Archie with his music then but then they could have like graduated and gone off.

Definitely too much Bughead fanservice but there is also a lot of Varchie. Like the cheerleader performance or Veronica dressing up in a blonde wig and whatnot. Carrying out that whole Romeo and Juliet theme in a sense. It's boring as hell. I mean, I hate Bughead because I hate Jughead whinging all the bloody time and you can't like a couple if you only care for one half of it. Now with Varchie, it just puts me to sleep. And all these storylines are going in such different directions – like I said before, it's really hard for me to believe that Betty would not try to help free Archie, prove his innocence. She was at the cabin too after all.

Yep. Robyn Lively... a much better choice. I don't understand what Ringwald's commitment issues are tbh. I was only glad that in the second season she developed some chemistry with Perry and credibility as Archie's mum and Fred's (ex-?) wife. That was so sorely lacking in season 1.

It's just we can't just get one scene... I need mooore FP/Alice.

'Sabrina' continues to be brilliant by the way.

PhoenixRising

Well, my only problem with streaming is that I prefer to watch shows on a device that doesn't need updates or antivirus scans. I never liked watching stuff on a laptop to be honest.

I think Disney is gonna want to control all of their properties, so I don't think that the Netflix shows will last long from what I've been hearing.

I don't think that it's Toni, per se, but I just think that Toni isn't as interesting a character as Cheryl is, and I also think that Cheryl has lost a lot of what made her so compelling in the first two seasons. I think the Cheryl works better when she's not part of any "ship," unless it was some character who was really her equal.

Well, I do agree with you about Moose and Kevin's storyline having potential, I just don't think it's going to get nearly as much attention as it probably needs because of the other storylines taking precedence. I think it's fascinating so far that Moose has his own click in the ROTC and that Kevin feels isolated from that, and now he's trying to fit into it just to be near Moose. But I question if it's actually going to have any depth or if it's just gonna be a throwaway plotline.

Yeah, but if they did that with Josie and the Pussycats you know that some people would complain about the characters not getting any storylines and just being there to be the musical interlude. And I think once they began the Veronica/Archie thing they didn't have much use for Valerie anymore. But I think that there's far more Bughead than Varchie, to be honest. I get what you mean about Veronica and Archie's storylines, but again, I think the show really doesn't know what to do with them because they're spending so much time with Bughead. And I agree, I don't like Bughead's constant whining either. Maybe Varchie wouldn't put you to sleep if the writers actually tried something relevant with them instead of making everything the Bughead show. And I also agree that Betty wouldn't just forget about Archie like that.

I don't know, either, but I think that Molly just doesn't want to commit to a TV show. I think she does more stage work. And I think the show might still be trying to move in the direction of Fred/Hermione, although I could be wrong.

I'm sure we'll get more Falice scenes, Nina. And I'm glad Sabrina is good so far.

Nikki K

I move around so much and I just cannot afford the baggage of too much stuff. I do everything on my MacBook.

Maybe –*in that case, I still maintain that a pick-up from Disney is less than certain. It depends on the direction the service is going in and also from what I read Feige hates the TV shows because they were successful (well, Jessica Jones and Daredevil were) and popular without his input while the MCU is going downhill fast.

What we got on Toni wasn't anything to draw us in, sadly, I mean the story of her native American grandfather was hijacked by Jughead and that's all we know about her. I think Cheryl works best solo as a sympathetic yet outrageous "antagonist". I'm not convinced that we need everyone paired up, quite the opposite.

Yes, there is something there, like I said it even has relevance but like you said it's probably going to be a throwaway plotline in the end and a transparent one at that which is a shame. So no, unlike Cheryl/Toni, I do not think Kevin/Moose are tokenism but unfortuntely that doesn't guarantee a good plotline.

I think it would be best if writers did not pay so much attention to fan complaints (well, except mine of course) but put more effort into cohesive plots. I don't know, I think Jughead whinges, Betty not so much. I like Betty. It's funny because judging from the comics I would have thought I would like Veronica better but I don't. I think apart from fanservice they spend more time on Bughead because they have a clearer picture of what to do with them in terms of having them investigate things. Meanwhile it's hard to find activities for Varchie to do together except have them make out or debate how they will defy Hiram, both of which is pretty boring because it doesn't exactly lead anywhere. I know this won't happen because of fanservice but I honestly thought last year when Betty and Archie kissed, okay, fine – I wouldn't be bothered if that happened tbh.

I should maybe mention that Riverdale was mentioned on 'Sabrina' – when Sabrina asks the Weird Sisters to help her take revenge on part of the football team and they lure the boys into the mine at night, they ask Prudence, Dorcas and Agatha whether they attend Riverdale High because they only know Sabrina from Baxter High in Greendale. Also they are planning cameos of the original cast from the 90s sitcom for the second season, I mostly hope that means Beth Broderick. I loved her as Zelda and I just realised that she was in "Sharp Objects" with Amy Adams recently, now I have to watch that.

I don't see Fred/Hermione happening. That's over and done with. I think he really doesn't care for her at this point and she is loyal to Hiram for whatever reasons (I do not buy that it's fear –*she was just playing Veronica when she said something of the sort in the second episode). Also one more thing though, wasn't that weird when the parents came together regarding the Gargoyle-King? I mean I buy that FP, Fred, Alice, Hermione, Penelope (including Clifford and Hal) went to school together... maybe Sierra McCoy though she looks younger. But Hiram and Sheriff Keller? Seriously? I mean –*I figured, Hermione met Hiram later (in NYC?), when she moved away from Riverdale, which is why the apartment in Riverdale is in her name (see pilot)... maybe inherited from her parents. Meanwhile Sheriff Keller looks significantly older and not like he could have been part of the clique back in the day.

BL.Arinna_1982

Hey Nina. I've yet to watch Sabrina.

PhoenixRising

I can't watch Sabrina because I don't have Netflix, so I'll have to wait and see if it gets uploaded to On Demand.

Oh, I see, Nina. Well, that MacBook is probably a lot better. And I guess if I had a tablet I might watch stuff on that because I think tablets and Ipads are like smartphones, where you don't have to go through a start up process like you do with a laptop, you can just turn it on, click the browser, and go online.

I'm not surprised about Feige, because I think he's a control freak. I can't stand the guy. I'm hoping that after Avengers 4 the MCU gets retooled because Hank and Janet deserve to be in the Avengers and I want the classic characters recast and not have a bunch of new characters taking over that no one's gonna care about. And I can't stand Tom Holland's Spider-Man. I want the grown up version from the comics.

I agree with you about Toni. They had an idea for a story in season 2, but she hasn't done much since, and I also agree that Cheryl works better as a solo character who flirts with everyone while trying to manipulate them. You're right, we don't need all these couples.

Well, I hope the Moose/Kevin thing isn't a throwaway, but I just don't see how they can give it much time with all these other plotlines stuffed into the show. I think the writers are forgetting how tight the show was in season 1, and this happens to a lot of shows once the writers get drunk on success. I unfortunately see this show going down the same path as Twin Peaks, sadly.

Fanservice often kills good writing, Nina. And yes, they're spending so much time making Betty and Jughead the Nancy Drew and Frank Hardy of the show, they're not really giving Archie and Veronica much to do. Truth be told, Archie really should be the Frank Hardy character because he's basically the reason for the entire Riverdale storyline. They're called Archie Comics for a reason. Yeah, I wouldn't be bothered if they dumped Bughead and had another Archie/Betty moment as well, just to keep this from being the Bughead show.

Thanks for the info on Sabrina. That's pretty cool that Riverdale was mentioned, albeit briefly. And I pretty much guessed that members of the 90's cast would make an appearance, because these shows can't help themselves. Oh, I had such a crush on Beth Broderick on the 90's show. I haven't heard of that show, Sharp Objects.

Yeah, I guess the Fred/Hermione thing is pretty much over. That's a shame because I really thought it gave Fred something to do other than be the dad. I don't think Hermione is afraid of Hiram, but I do think she's playing her cards right and perhaps waiting to see if he goes down, and potentially take over for him. And yes, when the parents all came together regarding the Gargoyle King it reminded me of Stephen King's IT, where a group of adults who made a pact in childhood(or adolescence) are all reunited to confront the same problem that has suddenly returned. I was surprised that Keller, Hiram, and Sierra were all there as well. But I do remember Hiram was on the wrestling team at Riverdale High, remember? So he is from the town, he just moved out to New York later on. As for Keller, well, I have no idea.

Nikki K

Arinna – Sabrina is a lot of fun, so I hope you can watch it after Daredevil but like I said on the previous page, give Find Me In Paris a chance. I know you loved Ruby Red, this show is a bit along those lines.

Alex – well, I don't have an iPad... again it was like... not another device but I know people who do, I admit it does come in handy when you travel a lot and don't necessarily have to process data, just check/write the odd email, you can use it to store presentations in pdf form so that's good, read papers etc. and yes obviously to watch things.

I find that a lot of characters get really boring once they are part of a couple, idek. Well, perhaps there is still hope that they play out the Kevin/Moose thing properly... who knows, we only have the Gargoyle King, the Evernever Farm cult, and Archie's prison break to contend with it. And I just don't like Jughead so yeah... wouldn't mind more Betty/Archie or honestly I find that Betty can go sleuthing with a bunch of people and it works fine... like with Cheryl last season. Doesn't have to be Jughead all the bloody time. *sigh* I recall that Hiram was on his high school wrestling team, but was that really Riverdale High? I know that Archie wanted to prove himself to him by joining the Riverdale High wrestling team but yeah, I guess it didn't make an impression on me that it was Hiram's former team, only that he was wrestling while in high school. I feel like that whole thing about parents/family members etc. being reunited because of a pact they made etc. is a common theme in horror stories.

Yeah, look, you won't sell me on Varchie. It's not just a thing with the writing. It's the whole concept. I mean, ultimately, Archie is supposed to be torn between Betty and Veronica.

"Sharp Objects" was an HBO mini series that aired a few months ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Objects_(miniseries) – it was insanely well received, I expect it'll win an Emmy/Golden Globe...

I always hated Spider-Man, no matter the incarnation. And gosh all the movies were so bloody painful.

PhoenixRising

Arinna apparently didn't like Sabrina, Nina.

I guess I wouldn't mind a tablet or iPad or something like that if I could afford it, Nina. At least if it worked anything like a smartphone.

Yes, I agree with you about the whole Varchie thing. I agree that the whole point of the Archie comics is that Archie is torn between Betty and Veronica, while Betty and Veronica are best friends who just happen to love the same man, and Jughead is supposed to be the asexual best friend of Archie who has little interest in relationships. That's actually what I assumed this show was going to be when I first saw the season 1 trailers. But this is CW, so you know they just had to do the "shipping" thing and bump up Jughead's importance by having him not only be the narrator but also a main protagonist, and Cole Sprouse's popularity combined with his relationship with Lili Reinhart is what motivated the writers to do what they've done, and I think it's to the show's detriment.

Yes, that would be a good idea if the show focused more on Betty/Veronica, Betty/Archie, Betty/Cheryl, Archie/Jughead, or Betty/Archie/Veronica which would be truer to the comics.

Yep, Hiram was on the Riverdale High wrestling team. In fact, the coach introduced Hiram to the team as one of the school's legendary former wrestlers. And you're right, that trope about adults reuniting because of some terrible event that happened to them in their childhood or adolescence is a very common theme in horror movies, most notably Stephen King stories like IT.

Thanks for the Sharp Objects link. Well, the problem with the Spider-Man movies is that they always get the character wrong, starting with always making Peter Parker a teenager. Peter hasn't been a teenager since the early 1970's in the comics, and the Spider-Man that I and everyone else grew up on is the 20-something Spider-Man from the comics that came out in the late 70's, 80's, 90's, and 2000's. So I think it's mostly Hollywood's fault.

BL.Arinna_1982

I've tried watching it. I didn't like the plot. It's structured to be a darker and horrific version of Sabrina. I don't like watching scary movies in general. This is why I think I'll pass on this one.

Nikki K

Arinna - fair enough. It only gets scarier tbh. But yeah. Give 'Find Me In Paris' a go. Not scary at all but really brilliant. Here's the promo:



Alex - you don't have to buy it new, you can get a re-furbished one at a really reasonable price. They do basically work like smartphones but with more functionality... also great because of the bigger display. Like I said, I guess if I didn't move around so much, I'd probably buy more things but as it is, I don't see the point... it all just feels like stuff I have to drag from one place to the next and it becomes extra complicated when I move back.

Yeah, you don't have to explain to me how it happened, I know that. I'm just saying, it's not what it should be. Like you said, and I mentioned before, the relationships you listed should be the ones they should be focusing on. It would make things less messy and boring.

Again, I mentioned the movies which I despised, but I hated Spider-Man in the comics too. Every version of Peter Parker and Miles Morales too tbh. I liked Jessica Drew though. And she worked with the Avengers... so I sometimes want to say, just let it go, okay, if you need want to, then have Spider-Woman, okay? But just stop it with Spider-Man for a few years until we have all healed from our recent cinematographic wounds here.

ETA: Ah cool, I'm watching "The Punisher" now and the actress who plays Dinah Madani, the Homeland Security agent, played Juan's mistress on the first season of "Borgia".

Mignonette

I've only watched a few seasons, but yeah, I miss Mary Berry and Mel & Sue. I like Paul, too. My boyfriend & I don't own a television and watch online shows on Netflix, Hulu, etc, which is ok cause we're both students and don't have much free time.

BL.Arinna_1982

Thank you, Nina. I'll check it out.

PhoenixRising

Thanks for that promo, Nina.


Thanks for the info. Maybe I'll look into one later on. I'm still saving up now that I'm out of debt, finally. And I get what you mean. Moving around like that isn't easy, is it?

Oh, sorry. I figured you knew the reason, but I just wanted to go into detail and I tend to blab a lot. But yeah, the relationships relevant to the comics are the ones the show should be focusing on. But CW has a habit of screwing that up as well as capitulating to fanservice.

Oh, you just don't like Peter Parker in general? I'm sorry. He was my favorite superhero growing up. But I agree with you about Jessica Drew/Spider-Woman. She was one of my favorite female superheroes and I really wanted her to be featured in the movies since she's been in the Avengers and she really has nothing to do with Peter's storyline in the comics. She's the creation of the High Evolutionary, and I wish he was featured in the MCU as well. But you're right that they've gone overboard with Spider-Man, and the Tom Holland version annoys me greatly. I just wanted a simple adaptation of the Spider-Man from the 70's and the 80's, with Black Cat, Silver Sable, Venom, Hobgoblin, and all of the great storylines that came out when I was growing up that aren't trying to play to the Twilight crowd.

Thanks for letting us know. Juan's had so many mistresses I wasn't sure which one. And I don't remember a lot of 'Borgia' that well.

BL.Arinna_1982

Missing The Gifted this week.

PhoenixRising

The Gifted aired last night, Arinna. We can watch it tomorrow if you want.