girl under the floor

You know, I'm just really hoping we're gonna get insight on that dark year.
And I really hope we will get to see that instead of people just telling us stories. I'm not a big fan of flashbacks, but I wanna see that.

I'm trying to hold off on commenting at all on Octavia actually.

Cause my major problem with it this season is that I feel like we don't get to see her side at all. The show is just presenting us one side: Octavia being this steel hard leader who doesn't budge for anything and seems to be cruel.
And at the beginning of the season I felt like maybe this was who she became because she was formed this way by everything that had happened in the bunker. And that maybe she wasn't the one forming the cult, but maybe thrust into the cult leader position by Gaia.

But now, I just don't know. I don't know anything
Except - we are no longer seeing her side. It's not being presented to us. We don't see any emotions from her.
And it makes me wonder how and why that happened, that she became like this.
Cause this is not the Octavia I know. She is passionate, has strong morals (even though I tend to agree with her morals, I'm not saying *right* morals, but that she feels strongly about her morals), she loves deeply, she's a warrior.
Now, I, personally, still see glimpses in there. Her little wave at Monty, her urging to Bellamy to get inside when Dyoza dropped those food rations. . . I still see Octavia in there. And because I do love her, I have no problem (yes, still) relating to her.

But I just don't know where the show is going with this.
What if her thought process is: "We did terrible things in the bunker, I did terrible things in the bunker, and I did it all to make sure these people survive. Now we got out of the bunker, we're still not safe, we can't survive here, we need that valley. There's one last thing I gotta do as their leader and that is to lead them to that one spot of green."
What if she can't focus on anything else, because she is still being that leader who just wants her people to survive. And anyone, anyone who is not for Wonkru, is the enemy of Wonkru. Anyone who is not actively helping them to that valley, is keeping them from it, is keeping them from survival, therefore is keeping them from surviving.

But of course I have no idea on her thought process, because unlike all the other seasons before, the show is not showing me her thought process.
So I'm really hoping that the Dark Year will give us insight here.


Also - speaking of "her people".

Bellamy called Miller out; "So much for The 100".
Clarke's first priority ain't The 100. Her priority is Madi.
Bellamy's first priority ain't The 100. His priority is Spacekru.
With previous episodes we've had discussions about how Octavia would find Raven (and more, but keeping it to one person) an acceptable loss. And that wasn't okay. But everyone's allegiance has shifted during the 5 years. So to me it's only natural that Octavia's has too. Especially considering the fact that she has spent more time with Wonkru than with The 100.

destroyer of worlds

Paula. I love what you said here:

I feel like Bellamy fans should be able to relate to this better in season 3 since it was a similar scenario. Bellamy doing "bad"/controversial things and viewers being frustrated because we couldn't really understand why or see his motivation for doing so. So, though I do understand why people feel how they feel about Octavia's arc this season (and the last too), I feel like she shouldn't be written off just yet. And I really hope that the Dark Year gives us a much better insight into her POV as Wonkru leader.

And I never thought of it that way and I did voice out my annoyance about her kind of bulldozing everyone else (like Clarke) in her efforts to get to the valley because of this motivation ... but as you said, we don't quite see that yet: her desperation as leader and wanting to achieve that goal for her people.

Maybe she doesn't care so much about "manners" or how others view her right now, her goal is one goal alone: getting her people to safety. (though I maintain that shooting traitors from Wonkru kind of goes against that in some way)

That's true, though it doesn't make her saying that Raven and the others are effectively collateral damage, any easier. I don't see any emotions coming from her, even if she's more loyal to Wonkru now.

April7739

Paula! I’ve really missed your thoughts.

I think you’re right that we haven’t seen as much of Octavia’s perspective. We’ve really seen her (and Wonkru) primarily through Bellamy and Clarke’s perspectives lately. And maybe a little bit through Indra. Which I think is why I’ve just decided to view her as the villain of the season until/unless they decide to switch that up somehow. That little wave to Monty has been her softest moment of the season to me. I think it’s good that they’ve given us a couple of those things, because it gives viewers like me, who have admittedly been very upset with her, something to hold onto.

What you said at the end about priorities was something I hadn’t thought about. In my gut, her idea that Raven is an acceptable loss still upsets me, angers me, because I simply like Raven more. But from Octavia’s current perspective, I suppose it makes sense even if I don’t think it’s morally right.

CanIcallYouKate

I have not given up hope for Octavia at all and things DO make sense from her perspective, if, like you say, Paula, she is so set on her goal that she has blinders on. That is why a dictatorship is such a dangerous set-up. You need advisors who do not fear repercussions when they tell you when you are being stupid (or shortsighted or stuck in your ways).

I also feel like we are going to see things very differently after the dark year episode. Miller's behavior might also make more sense then. I feel like they have given us so many moments of him being absolutely loyal on purpose. My feeling is something went down beyond the general story to make him so fiercely be on O's side at all times!

I loved that Indra acknowledged to O that she shouldn't have let her carry that burden by herself (whatever the "burden" actually is).

And I love that they showed us that single tear running down Octavia's cheek in the last shot. Her "bloodreina armor" is showing cracks

destroyer of worlds

The fact that she cried immediately when she was alone ... that gives me a bit of hope. It still hurt her that Bellamy and Indra betrayed her, so I'm still hoping to see the old Octavia in there. And hopefully sooner rather than later.

Damocles

It shows me what was already suspected, that she was bottling actual emotions inside her and that they haven't been thrown to the wind. Having both Indra and Bellamy go against her must hurt very badly.

destroyer of worlds

I’m hopeful based on that, I feel like she feels that she needs to suppress her emotions to be a good leader. But what happened is hopefully the breaking point which forces her to wonder why people who love her would turn against her like this.

April7739

Did you guys notice the tear that seeped out when she and Indra started talking about the Dark Year?

It must, but at the same time I’m like, “Well, girl, you’re the one who put them in there! If you don’t wanna lose them, don’t make them fight. You’re the one with the power to stop it.”

Okay, I’m so torn. This is gonna be very blunt, but part of me feels like, “I’m done. That’s it. 100% done with Octavia. I don’t care if she dies. Good riddance.” But then there’s still this Dark Year stuff we don’t know. And I feel like . . . Like I have to wait until after that episode to really lock in my opinion. Because this episode sure did make it sound like she took on some unthinkably heavy, soul-crushing burden. By herself. And while I’ve been saying that I think her followers fear her (I still think that is partially true), I also wonder if whatever she did earned her true respect and admiration.

I don’t know. I gotta reserve judgment. And if I do give up hope for her, then I will just post about Marie and seasons 1-4 Octavia in here, for the most part. If I don’t, then . . . well, then I’ll just have my hope restored, I guess, and see where it goes.

CanIcallYouKate

Sorry, random question not particular to this thread but a lot of attention has been focused on Octavia, so I might as well post it here.
When did this whole "I am so done with this character or that character" stuff start on this board? I feel like that's half the discussion lately.

If anything, this show has consistently shown us, that EVERYONE can be redeemed, has tried to give us background or insight into the characters' motivations. Sometimes that came way too late for anyone to change their opinions about said character (Pike comes to mind) but mostly, it has worked. Well, for me anyway.

We've pretty much seen most of the characters do seemingly unforgiveable things and come back from that. And I'd argue, in most cases it was handled well and organically.

Whatever Octavia did during the Dark Year, will hopefully give us that necessary background and insight. I'm only afraid that for a lot of the internet out there and some posters on this board, it might be too little too late, as it was in Pike's case.

What I really, really love about this show, is that it makes me examine the different points of view. Had we seen a flashback of what transpired to PikeKru when they first landed instead of just having him and Hannah tell it to us, we would have been more sympathetic to his actions probably. But instead what we got came too late and we saw things from Bellamy's and Clarke's perspective and Pike just mucked things up for what our characters were trying to achieve.

Anyway, I've said it before, I think the "real" Octavia is still in there and I hope that in the Dark Year episode we will see what made her the person she is right now. I feel dramatically, they might make this the episode where her whole bloodreina persona will fall apart and I hope they will manage to make us empathetic to her arc.

Putting the two most important people to her in the pit (Bellamy and Indra) is Octavia's make or break point. The only sign of built up emotion, of her inner turmoil that she hid so successfully until now, her tears indicate to me that she has reached the point where she can't go on.

April7739

I won’t speak for others, just myself.

Octavia’s the only character I currently feel this way about, Kate. (I’ve never been on board with Echo or Gaia, so I can’t be done with them if I never started. ) And it’s been a very gradual thing that’s been building up for me where Octavia is concerned. I haven’t really had one moment where I just flipped a switch on her; it’s been something that’s been accumulating since season 4, most likely. And it’s strange for me, because it’s her relationship with Bellamy that both makes me hold out hope for her and makes me want to give up hope. Her treatment of him has really rubbed me the wrong way. I can’t deny that. But as I said, I’m going to hold out for this Dark Year reveal and see if that changes my mind.

I do agree with you that every character can be redeemed, but I do think they tend to handle it a little better with the male characters than the females. (I think Clarke is a huge exception, though.) The question for me isn’t whether or not Octavia can be redeemed—I know the answer to that is yes—the question is whether or not I’ll buy into and be invested in that redemption. Which is a matter of opinion. Like I know some people thought it was too little too late with Pike, but I found a way to empathize with him a bit towards the end. I know some people hated Jaha, but to be honest, I don’t think he’s on my top 10 least favorites. Some people totally buy Echo as being redeemed, and I don’t feel that way about her at all.

But as I said, if I get to that point where I kind of give up on her and let go of my lingering attachment, I’ll still bear in mind that this is an appreciation thread, and it won’t stop me from posting appreciation about Marie, and about seasons 1-4 Octavia, who I still do enjoy things about.

So speaking of appreciation . . . did you guys notice the tear when she’s talking to Indra yet? Marie has become the master of the single tear this year!

CanIcallYouKate

This was not directed at you, April
Just a general observation of recent board dynamics tbh

And I agree, Marie's the queen of teary eyes/ single tear this season
She has kept everything bottled up for the whole season but she is showing cracks

April7739

Oh, I knew it wasn’t. But it made me kind of examine my own feelings a little bit more, so it’s all good.

She is. I hope those cracks break wide open in the next episode.

CanIcallYouKate

I do as well, I am so excited to see this all come crumbling down in a big dramatic emotional way. I know Marie will deliver and I'm all here for that

Damocles

I did not notice the Dark Year tear, hmm!

And I've never been done with any character - there are ones I don't care for that much, and there are ones I find frustrating, but I don't think I would ever just write a character off? I always believe that there's light at the end of their tunnel, I think

CanIcallYouKate

It's the 100 after all, Lisa. So there might be a blip pf light, followed by more darkness, but yeah, I get what you're saying LOL

I think the Dark Year episode might be the most interesting thing I look forward to right now but of course I have no clue what will happen next week.

I might have to re-watch actually to look at Octavia's face and Marie's acting more closely.