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Old 09-17-2010, 07:48 AM
  #271
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For everyone who is on the Bonnie bandwagon of 'everything is Damon's fault'. That's not true at all, everything would've happened the same way had Damon not shown up. He might've speed things along but Anna would've come and opened the tomb, Isobel would've come as well as John, and Katherine would've shown up and killed Caroline. He was more the catalyst but he's not the reason behind everything bad that happens in Mystic Falls, as much as some people would like him to be.

For people that want Damon to be redeemed, it's obviously going to take a while. I don't think you would believe it if Damon was all of a sudden all happy and sunshine and puppies and eating forest animals. Plus, I don't ever want him to be like that, I love Damon no apologies, is who he is and you can take it or you can leave it. We already have the good brother, Damon can be bad and have redeeming qualities.

I'm loving the Jeremy/Damon relationship, because Jeremy is just as effed up as Damon is. And they share this bond over that. They constantly feel out of place, and though Damon essentially killed him, I think Jeremy has almost grudging respect for him. Plus I love the chemistry!

Stefan/Caroline, OMG SHOW PLEASE LET THIS HAPPEN. Stefan was so interesting and fun around her, the way he is around Damon when they are snarky. That hug scene was amazing, and I love that they are hanging out next week as well
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Old 09-17-2010, 07:59 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Schumiac (View Post)
This has nothing to do with tomb vampires. Katherine was not in the tomb, Damon did NOT make her come ( If we were to take her word for it, she is here because of Stefan! not Damon - though I believe she is not here for Salvatores at all and has some other plan in action-) and she is the one who killed Caroline upon learning from Bonnie Damon had given her his blood to save her...

IF we are going to trace back, though... It all started with Emily. Bonnie as well as the tomb vampires exist now because
a) Katherine saved Emily's life at some point thus making Emily owe her
b) Emily made a deal with Damon to protect Katherine from being burned and no Damon did NOT ask for all the vamps to be saved, EMILY did that. He only asked Katherine to be saved.

So after waiting for 145 years and HONORING his part of the deal Damon came back to town to FREE KATHERINE. What did Emily do? She possessed her own grand grand child, BETRAYED Damon by not keeping to her word (who even told her he only cared about Katherine so he was willing to let the tomb vamps stay there even in that 1st attempt if it only got him Katherine back!) and then left her grand grand child all confused and a sitting duck to face an angry vampire in a berserker rage which was really meant for HER... So if Emily has agreed to just let Katherine out (we know NONE of the tomb vamps were in a condition to rush out and the seal could be put back into place after Katherine was removed!) Bonnie wouldn't have been bitten (and would only have the trauma of being possessed to deal with!) and the tomb vamps would still be sealed in (as frankly, out of all of the Bennett witches, she seems the one most eqipped to do that with no problems & mess-ups).

Then came Grams. They had all agreed the tomb would be opened and Damon would get Katherine and LEAVE TOWN with her and the rest of the tomb vamps would be burned off. So, the town would be vamp-free except for Stefan if Grams kept to HER part of the deal this time. But no. Grams had to just try and be clever and doublecross Damon too and try to lock him up in the tomb, even though he took Elena with him there (there was no certainty he'd let Elena go). This led to her having to do another spell to keep the seal down long enough to let Damon & Stefan out, and she died of overexertion while somehow messing up the spell and actually freeing all the tomb vamps. It was HER BETRAYAL and going against the original plan that resulted in her death & the tomb vamps being released.

And finally Bonnie doublecrossing Elena & Damon and not removing the spell off that vampire migraine giving machine meant that Tyler crashed the car and Caroline ended up severely injured. As Bonnie is not capable of doing a healing spell it was up to Damon to save Caroline's life, which he did, which was something Bonnie wanted him to do. Then Bonnie let Katherine (who id cruising in town freely in part because tomb vamps all died!) knew about Caroline which sealed her fate..

So, if we are going to play the "if" game, IF the Bennett Witches did not have such a history of not honoring a deal they make and double crossing people, A LOT of the bad things that happened would not have happened either. Damon has every right to come back to town to collect on a promise & deal he has been made years ago which he has honored diligently and he WAS willing to compromise and let the town be (not let the tomb vamps out). But no, Bennetts' will have to have everything their way and people should just accept being screwed over by them and give up. Because if they don't, then EVERYTHING is their fault all of a sudden...

I would say of all the Bennetts Emily's and Grams are the ones that caused the worst mess, not Bonnie's. But SHE needs to realize not everything is vampires' fault and how trying to control everything and have things your way to the point of doublecrossing people tends to backfire so she doesn't repeat the mistakes of her ancestors...

Btw, I am NOT saying Damon is an angel and has no fault, I am just pointing out that the Bennett side of things always gets forgotten. It is always "tomb vamps got released because Damon wanted them/Katherine out" well yes, Damon WANTED that tomb opened, but how that got so messed up and saw the release of the tomb vamps on the town (as well as Grams' death) was NOT really his fault. It is not his fault first Emily then Grams decided to double-cross him and so made the whole thing much more complicated than it had to be and ended up not having the opportunity to kill the tomb vamps/keep them sealed in. And he did NOT force Emily into that deal and it is understandable that after waiting 145 years and doing his part of the things he would want to get his payback. Why is he suppsoed to deal with the hand Emily dealt him and just give up?

OMG what an amazing post! I'm often too lazy to read giant posts but this one was amazing, and I loved reading it! I agree with everything you said, it's too easy to say it's all Damon's fault, EVEN THOUGH I'm not saying he's perfect and has done nothing wrong. But he's not the only one and I love that you pointed that out! Asena, amazing post
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:12 AM
  #273
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The episode was quite good.
As you people said Caroline was adorable.I loved Candice with everyone.The last scene with Matt was just good.Also the scene with Stefan :'( too good for my eyes.
Stefan last season I was on/off with him,most of the time I didn't feel for him,but this season,he's seriously rocking.With everyone.I hope the writers will keep on writing so good about him,cause it's really worth it.
Even though I ship a lot DE,I found SE scenes really sweet this episode.Never stop being this amazing Stefan,please!
I'm still not really into this werewolf storyline,but we will see next week better.
Stefan/Damon please keep on rocking like this for this season,guys.I love that Stefan isn't ready to give up on him.He's keeping his word.He's not going to allow Katherine to come into them.And Damon yes! I love that you accept his love.You know you need him,and I'm happy.
D/S plus ninja turtles totally made me laugh a lot.
Jeremy I loved his scenes with the Salvatore's brothers.
I wanted to quote every Schumiac post cause they are all bloody good,but they're also very long,lol so I'll just quote random sentences.
Quote:
Thanks God Damon's "humanity" is not really gone (no matter how much he tries) and he always has a appreciation for honesty himself and it seems he will be trying the big brother thing with Jeremy now...
I would love something like this.And I also think it could work on many levels.
Damon and Jeremy are both damaged guys like you've said here and I think for Damon,having someone to look after would be awesome.Jeremy needs a male figure in his life and Damon needs to take care of people.
I personally didn't find their scene odd.It was just Jeremy realizing he can't kill Damon,not Jeremy asking Damon to be his wife,lol.
I so hope things between these two are going to develop a lot.
Bonnie I don't know,no offences to the fans,but I personally don't care about her at all. I got her pain seeing Caroline that way,but I really didn't care. I just got the feeling her storyline is way too much involved on her powers and it seems to me that the writers aren't really bothering to develop her on a higher level.Like someone said in the other posts(I don't remember who sorry) this season seems to focus also on the characters outside the triangle,so I'm going to wait for a Bonnie's centric episode and I hope they'll make me change my mind.
Quote:
Where is Alaric? Apart from liking the character and wanting him to be in every episode, given everything that happened in the finale and how he was a part of it, it is just really odd for him to be MIA like this. They BETTER have a good explanation for why he was missing -like he was out of town looking into something or whatever...
I second this.I miss him so much.
Quote:
and Finally... ELENA
I think one of the most interesting parts of the episode is how on the verge of a meltdown Elena seemed to be. This IS a 17 years old girl after all, who just a year ago was still trying to deal with her parents death and in one year:

1) found out there are vampires and witches
2) found out she was adopted
3) saw people she knew/loved turned into vampires, bitten, staked, their necks snapped, fingers chopped off and bleeding to death...
4) witnessed a vampire massacre
5) deals with the self-destructive behavior of her brother (if it is not drugs, it is wanting to be a vampire!)
6) needs to deal with some very moody 145+ years old vampires be it the manic boyfriend's brother who has difficulty handling his emotions so snaps or the depressive boyfriend who has difficulty with being a vampire so broods a lot and has suicidal tendencies (as well as vampire rage when on human blood)
7) has a doppelganger around who is the most evil creature there is (so it seems) who is determined to make her life miserable and started out with chopping her father's fingers and stabbing him and continued with turning one of her best-friends...
And also this http://www.fanforum.com/50502694-post234.html

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Old 09-17-2010, 08:18 AM
  #274
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Quote:
But seriously, could she not have said no when Damon told her to come with him? This guy killed her brother a few days ago!
It's not as if Elena went w/ Damon to go do something frivolous like get a corn dog. She was resistant at first saying "Whatever it is, I’m not interested.". But Damon made it clear in his tone of voice and facial expressions that he wasn't just coming to her about just anything, they're living in a place where doppelganger hi-jinx ensues, where vampires come out of tomb, where people find out they're witches: she knew this was about something important and possibly bad so she went with him. Elena going with Damon doesn't equal Elena forgiving Damon, she just wants to be kept in the loop.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:20 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by naturellebella (View Post)
It's not as if Elena went w/ Damon to go do something frivolous like get a corn dog. She was resistant at first saying "Whatever it is, I’m not interested.". But Damon made it clear in his tone of voice and facial expressions that he wasn't just coming to her about just anything, they're living in a place where doppelganger hi-jinx ensues, where vampires come out of tomb, where people find out they're witches: she knew this was about something important and possibly bad so she went with him. Elena going with Damon doesn't equal Elena forgiving Damon, she just wants to be kept in the loop.
Exactly! It wasn't like he was saying 'ZOMG let's ride the ferris wheel' he was looking at her with a facial expression that clearly read. IMPORTANT! DANGER ALERT!
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:25 AM
  #276
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Quote:
It's not as if Elena went w/ Damon to go do something frivolous like get a corn dog. She was resistant at first saying "Whatever it is, I’m not interested.". But Damon made it clear in his tone of voice and facial expressions that he wasn't just coming to her about just anything, they're living in a place where doppelganger hi-jinx ensues, where vampires come out of tomb, where people find out they're witches: she knew this was about something important and possibly bad so she went with him. Elena going with Damon doesn't equal Elena forgiving Damon, she just wants to be kept in the loop.
This.Just like Jeremy not killing him it doesn't mean he has forgiven him.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:28 AM
  #277
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This.Just like Jeremy not killing him it doesn't mean he has forgiven him.
Exactly. It'll take a long time to forgive Damon, but he realizes that the vicious circle of hate has to end at some point. And him killing Damon would fix nothing, or wouldn't make him feel any better.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:32 AM
  #278
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That's not true at all, everything would've happened the same way had Damon not shown up.
No, it wouldn't have. The four people Damon killed in the beginning of the first two episodes that started freaking out the town wouldn't have happened. Caroline getting abused wouldn't have happened. Vicki getting fed on, turned, and dying wouldn't have happened. The coach's death (that Bonnie had a premonition about, subsequently terrifying her) wouldn't have happened. Bonnie herself getting harassed, threatened, and almost murdered wouldn't have happened. Much of what has directly impacted and traumatized Bonnie has been directly at Damon's hands. She has EVERY right in the world to hate him forever.

And while this isn't exactly ON the heads of the Salvatore brothers, and Bonnie needs to come to terms with her own choices that nobody asked her to do in this matter, the tomb thing probably still wouldn't have gone the same way. Even if they'd kidnapped Bonnie to compel Grandma to open the door, and somehow convinced them to get to the tomb, there would have been no reason for Elena to rush in there and Stefan to go after her had the Salvatore brothers not been there in the first place. Bonnie is a kid, so I'll put up with some temporary blame displacement on this front but eventually she's going to need to own up to her own choices and accept that her grandmother also made a choice without telling her what the options were. Still, to say this all would have gone down the same way is just not true. No one knows exactly what would have happened had Anna, Isobel, and John been left to their own devices. I don't know if Isobel would have come like she did- had no one ever gotten out of the tomb (which is there is no guarantee they would have without the Salvatores being there) Katherine might not have sent John and Isobel to town to kill them. But a lot of what DID happen, that scarred and changed Bonnie, is because Damon was on the front lines of this with Stefan and Elena chasing at his heels (and I find it weird that the only thing that convinced Stefan and Bonnie herself to even open the tomb door was Elena saying "We've got to let Damon get Katherine". Stefan was all about letting her chill in there eternally, lol, and Bonnie hasn't even acknowledged that). And much of it was also because of what Damon directly and deliberately caused.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:34 AM
  #279
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And while this isn't exactly ON the heads of the Salvatore brothers, and Bonnie needs to come to terms with her own choices that nobody asked her to do in this matter, the tomb thing probably still wouldn't have gone the same way. Even if they'd kidnapped Bonnie to compel Grandma to open the door, and somehow convinced them to get to the tomb, there would have been no reason for Elena to rush in there and Stefan to go after her had the Salvatore brothers not been there in the first place. Bonnie is a kid, so I'll put up with some temporary blame displacement on this front but eventually she's going to need to own up to her own choices and accept that her grandmother also made a choice without telling her what the options were. Still, to say this all would have gone down the same way is just not true. No one knows exactly what would have happened had Anna, Isobel, and John been left to their own devices. I don't know if Isobel would have come like she did- had no one ever gotten out of the tomb (which is there is no guarantee they would have without the Salvatores being there) Katherine might not have sent John and Isobel to town to kill them. But a lot of what DID happen, that scarred and changed Bonnie, is because Damon was on the front lines of this with Stefan and Elena chasing at his heels (and I find it weird that the only thing that convinced Stefan and Bonnie herself to even open the tomb door was Elena saying "We've got to let Damon get Katherine". Stefan was all about letting her chill in there eternally, lol, and Bonnie hasn't even acknowledged that). And much of it was also because of what Damon directly and deliberately caused.
But you are saying the BROTHERS, this is very different to it's all Damon's fault.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:42 AM
  #280
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Originally Posted by obsessedwithagron (View Post)
For everyone who is on the Bonnie bandwagon of 'everything is Damon's fault'. That's not true at all, everything would've happened the same way had Damon not shown up. He might've speed things along but Anna would've come and opened the tomb, Isobel would've come as well as John, and Katherine would've shown up and killed Caroline. He was more the catalyst but he's not the reason behind everything bad that happens in Mystic Falls, as much as some people would like him to be.

For people that want Damon to be redeemed, it's obviously going to take a while. I don't think you would believe it if Damon was all of a sudden all happy and sunshine and puppies and eating forest animals. Plus, I don't ever want him to be like that, I love Damon no apologies, is who he is and you can take it or you can leave it. We already have the good brother, Damon can be bad and have redeeming qualities.

I'm loving the Jeremy/Damon relationship, because Jeremy is just as effed up as Damon is. And they share this bond over that. They constantly feel out of place, and though Damon essentially killed him, I think Jeremy has almost grudging respect for him. Plus I love the chemistry!

Stefan/Caroline, OMG SHOW PLEASE LET THIS HAPPEN. Stefan was so interesting and fun around her, the way he is around Damon when they are snarky. That hug scene was amazing, and I love that they are hanging out next week as well
WORD bb.

I really liked Stefan/Caroline. He was so sweet with her. They are way more intersting to me than SE.

Also not all people that dislike Bonnie are Damon lovers Ive disliked her right from the start.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:46 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by obsessedwithagron (View Post)
But you are saying the BROTHERS, this is very different to it's all Damon's fault.
Well, Caroline, Damon harassing, threatening, and almost murdering Bonnie, the death of the teacher, Vicki's death...that IS all Damon's fault. And that's a LOT that directly impacted Bonnie to be all Damon's fault. Even trying to kill her alone is enough for Bonnie to have earned some serious long-lasting hatred for him.

But Bonnie HAS blamed Stefan. She has explicitly said she blames Stefan too. I think that's less of a legitimate reason to dislike someone because Stefan has never done anything but try to help her and that's why she wanted to get him out of the tomb in the first place, but it's not like it hasn't been there.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:46 AM
  #282
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I loved the second episode of this show. It's getting addicting. I still have to watch the first season though.
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Old 09-17-2010, 08:52 AM
  #283
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I would write a review, but this episode just blew me away.
Uhm, can I steal Stefan? I just love how this character develops in every episode, and we are exploring every sides of him. There's a reason why he is my favorite on the show and this episode proved why,. His scenes with Damon, hilarious. 'Ninjas" His scene with Jeremey. Then came his scene with Caro and wow. So much awesomeness. The ending scene with Elena was so sweet.

He's such a romantic and I don't think that Elena will ever find this kind of comfort in anyone else. Bad boys can be sexy, and they can be mysterious and maybe you'll feel special if you get them to change for you but Stefan; he's the guy that you marry. The guy that will give you everything and sweep you off your feet.
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Old 09-17-2010, 09:38 AM
  #284
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Thanks Lynn about the reminder. We seem to be forgetting that this thread is for discussion based on our opinions. There is no right or wrong posts here. It's all right to disagree, it's just that we should all try to accept that some people won't agree with our point.
I'm glad that generally this thread is calm as compared to other boards so thanks guys. We just have one request: please do not try to attack people for their opinions. There's no right or wrong opinions here; it only differs on what color is the glass we're looking through.
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Old 09-17-2010, 10:04 AM
  #285
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I like Elena. I think she is a genuinely nice person...most of the time. The only thing I don't like is that she sweeps things over the rug. Like not having any problem with what Damon did to Caroline and Bonnie, wth?

Cristofle, I LOVE your posts. 90 percent of this stuff has happened because of Damon.
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