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wilywiccan

I've heard some interesting meta already about her.

Mei Zhuo

Thanks for the thread

It's definitely interesting to think about what the season has in store for us, and about what she was saying that they will always be bound. I can't wait to find out more

ShadowhunterღReader

Yeah me too! That's why I found it interesting.. I don't ship them obviously but it would be interesting to see where they take the story with these two! That's what I'm excited about

Confetti!It'sAParade

This was posted by someone on IMDB. Interesting thoughts by the OP.

"Is the darkness and the baby the same person?

by btvsultifan84 » 1 day ago (Thu Oct 8 2015 09:20:53) Flag ▼ | Reply |

I just looked at the cast of the first episode and the woman that plays the darkness is listed as "Amara" which is what the dad named the baby, right?

So is that what she meant by Dean would be protecting her? By protecting the baby he is protecting the darkness?

Or did I misinterpret something somewhere?"

magikhands1

Thanks for the thread. Great idea!

And yeah, I'm thinking the baby is definately the Darkness born into the world. And who would kill an "innocent" baby? I wonder if she will grow fast? Looking forward to this story arc.

Galbotorix78

The woman and the baby are indeed the "same" person. The darkness needs a body, so she possessed something that she could fully control and corrupt.
As for the aging of the child, the USA series "4400" does a nice job with that; perhaps we'll see something similar in coming episodes?

wilywiccan

Do you think that while Dean & Amara were in the mist, they were outside of time? Was it similiar to the area between dimensions? It is basically the axis mundi but while on SPN that road just lets you travel between mini-heavens in the overall dimension of Heaven, in our universe it is more like a time vortex/portal. In both cases, what it appears as depends on the person(s) traveling it but almost always in some form of transportation. Road. Ocean. Space. Forest. Jungle. Sky. Ladder. Elevator. Stairs. River. Hallway. Esculator. Tunnel.

On the tv series Torchwood, several of the characters thought that there was nothing beyond death because when they had near death experiences, they only experienced darkness. They were probably unable to construct a simulation and were seeing the area as it really looks. Which would be something like The Darkness.

There are many questions. How she is speaking English? Why she is in the form of a woman if she predates gender? Does she even have memory in the same way that an animal or human experiences it? Are we meant to interpret everything Amara says as metaphor?

"I don't know this Death and he doesn't know me." There is order in death/decay. It is part of God's design. But if The Darkness is Chaos, then it existed before Genesis, possibly before the Big Bang.

Remember in the Bible, God did not create the Earth. He reformed it. He didn't create our solar system, he gave it light (sun/moon).

"In the beginning, God created the Heavens (which is used interchangeably with sky/ozone layer) and the Earth, and the earth was without form or shape, with darkness over the abyss, and a mighty wind sweeping over the waters, and then God said "let there be light" and there was light. God saw that the light was good. God then separated the light from the darkness. God called the light "day" and the darkness he called "night". Evening came, and morning followed---the first day."

Abyss is defined as a deep or seemingly bottomless chasm. A wide or profound difference between people, a gulf. The regions of Hell referred to as the pit.

Chasm is defined as a deep fissure in the earth, rock, or another surface. And also a profound difference between people.

ShadowhunterღReader

Verbal Warning

Add me, TFTNT and the vid

wilywiccan

In Greek mythology, CHAOS, the primeval void, was the first thing that existed. Next came Gaia (earth), Tartarus (underworld), and Eros (god of love/Roman counterpart is Cupid who is sometimes seen as the son of Aphrodite the goddess of love). Born from chaos were Erebus (Darkness) and Nyxx (Night).

So Amara predates Earth, the underworld (Purgatory/Hell), and the Holy Spirit's energy flow in the physical universe. She has more in common with the void of space than she does with creation. She is what lies in the deep.

The word chaos actually means "yawning" or "gap" which fits in nicely with what I was saying in my earlier post. The Darkness is the barrier between dimensions which people are supposed to cross through and not live within.

Ovid saw chaos as an unformed mass in where all the elements were jumbled together in a shapeless heap. That fits with what is written in Genesis. God pulled a Christopher Colombus and just "discovered" and then invaded/occupied a place that had existed long before his arrival.

She knew that Death was a "he" and not a "she" like herself. Supernatural is really getting into the subject of sex and gender roles. Tackling misogyny right away! God and Colombus came along and put names on things and conquered and reshaped without permission. Active and invasive and dominant. Amara is the opposite. She allows creation to travel through her but she does not direct its flow. She allows her shadows to be explored instead of searching for unknown sources of light. She's passive and mysterious. Light overtakes darkness.

The darkness is not the seed, it is the womb. Life goes into and comes out of the darkness. It is not a place you stay long term.

The Bible says, "I saw a star (Lucifer) that had fallen from the sky to the earth, the star (Lucifer) was given the key (the Mark of Cain) to the shaft of the Abyss, when he opened the abyss, smoke rose from it like smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened from the smoke from the Abyss. And out of the smoke, locusts (the zompires/croatoan 2.0?) came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads."

It says they had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Greek is Apollyon and in Hebrew is Abaddon. Remember that Dean only received the Mark of Cain/The Key that let the Darkness Out in his quest to slay Abaddon. Much like how Sam's quest to slay Lilith is what opened the final seal to free Lucifer.

Supernatural team really planned this out well. I love that the series of Bible fan fiction.

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wilywiccan

It just makes so much sense that Amara would not know death. You can't kill something that is nothing. Stars illuminate and then die, but the pitch black vastness of space (which means emptiness, void) that surrounds them cannot die. Without the stars all you have is darkness.

Amara is on one side of the spectrum and God is on the other. Death bridged the gap between the two.

I wonder if she knows "kill" but not "death" because she has never been to the afterlife. They are made of pure creation and imagination with much higher energy levels. Realms of nothing but star beings. She has seen the "end" of creatures but not what happens when they transition. She is on the side of oblivion.

How long as it been since Amara/Darkness was on the Earth? Is it going by the same timetable as The Bible? That would make it a little more than 6,000 years.

God traveled from the spirit realms to the physical realm (void of space) and started creating life to inhabit it.

magikhands1

I can understand why she doesn't know Death, she does predate him if you go from the Bible. There was only Darkness in the beginning until God created light & separated it. Death didn't come along until Cain killed his brother or possibly when Satan talked Eve into eating from the fruit of the forbidden tree since some believe that was the death of innocence & when Adam & Eve started aging or would die.
Looking forward to more of this mythology

Galbotorix78

Wilywiccan, in regard to your thoughts, I'd like to add a few things.

As to how/why the Darkness can speak, appears as a woman, etc . . . remember -

Dean, "Are you trying to say that I shouldn't kill you right now?"
Darkness/Amara, "Am I saying that, or are you?"
The, "We're bound, Dean. You helped me, and I'll always help you."

It could be that because of the connection via the mark she -
A) Can read Dean's mind and express herself in the way he is best suited to understand. That explains the English, the woman, and a vague understanding of surroundings.
B) Has been able to follow history through the Mark of Cain. First with Lucifer then Cain then Dean.
C) Is just a convenience for presentation like how everything takes place in America or how all the characters speak English no matter how long its been since they've existed. She is a woman because all monsters look like people - even werewolves, etc.

I vote C since A and B do not account for her lack of knowledge of death.


I try not to read too much into real world historical mythology as it relates to Supernatural because the show has a loose interpretation and a skillful blending of religions and cultures, but since I have extensive knowledge of Biblical history and Egyptian mythology, I'll weigh in (The show recognizes Egyptian mythology in S07E04 "Defending Your Life" with Osiris).

You jump from Biblical creation to Greek. Generally speaking, many religions have the universe/world starting our in chaos. From that chaos come order in the form of a creation deity. The Bible has God creating ex nihilo (from nothing) to fend off the unorder of chaos (like anti-matter). Egyptian mythology has Apep who threatens to devour the world but is held in check by the order of Ma'at (truth, order) and the Ra's journey through the underworld each night.

I appreciate your approach to the Darkness as an undirected entity of great power. "She's passive and mysterious [and allows] Light [to] overtake darkness."

My question is if Abaddon is the leader of the "locusts," what/where are the locusts? Could that just be Hell, an unknown horde of enemies, or is the Darkness the smoke that obscures our vision of the enemy before the Winchesters?

Looking forward to your thoughts! You've got great background knowledge!