Spoilers - OUAT S&S #258 Can you come back from the bad decisions you made and how? This back half is about what makes a hero and what makes a villain. - Page 3

CityGal · 02-23-2015, 01:26 AM

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Originally Posted by xthing1x (View Post)

I very politely disagree.

I don't mind rather enjoy the thought provoking discussion.

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I think there's a good chance we'll see Regina offering Emma some advice wrt to the way Rumple has manipulated her in the past. And yes, they are foils, but that doesn't automatically mean they'll always make the same choice when it comes down to a tough call.

Oh, I think that is most likely since they ended 4A on a positive note and clearly Henry wants them to work together. I think my writing wasn't clear and I apologize. Adam and Eddy are writing a new fairytale story so I usually think in terms of the totality of the series. Short term in my view could be an entire season. In the last E&A interview (posted in OP), they said they are in the middle of the story (whether they meant Regina's specifically or the series, not sure) so that was my reference to short term.

So in the beginning of this arc, I do believe Emma will help Regina in-good-faith and likewise from Regina, but if at the end of the arc, Regina is at the edge faced with her "happy ending" and Rumple is, once again, right besides her, and all that stands in her way is Emma...then yeah, I could see Rumple manipulate via a word or two to get Regina to "take it". And for story purposes, yes, I could see Regina finally succumb again (and it would parallel and contrast with the car scene in 4A and the manipulative villain lives on). Was it foreshadowing?

So short term, meaning this season's arc, the foils by season's end will be repositioned in the opposite from the premiere. Therefore, IMHO, I don't see the season ending well for Emma.

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There's a huge difference between having an evil thought and doing something evil. The reaction is everything. I think the great distinction will be that Emma will reject the temptation that Regina once embraced. Or, unlike Regina when she was young, Emma will benefit from having a bunch of people on her side to talk her down from the ledge (her parents, Hook, Henry, Regina, etc.). Having support when you're in a bad place is so important. More foilage!

Agree with this. Emma now has the support that Regina didn't have in the past (not sure where everyone other than Henry is in the story) so it should be an emotional and perhaps magical character growth story for her. And yes, foils. The opposite of Regina's story.

Radames · 02-23-2015, 02:50 AM

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Originally Posted by CityGal (View Post)

Ding, ding, ding!! Me too. IMHO, they are written as foils of each other since the pilot. So I've always understood why SQ shippers see a "connection" between the two, but it is as protagonist vs. antagonists - just not romantically.

Which is why, for me, the mere fact Emma is on this trip with Regina makes the hair on the back of my neck rise. Unless the relationship changes (and it could in the future), it doesn't bode well for Emma in the short term.

I don't think it's ever been romantic as much as a certain fandom claims it is. They've been dismissed so many times by the writers and actors even going so far as to completely shutting them down. If they choose to believe that these interactions are romantic well that's their incorrect interpretation, and it is incorrect because the writers have already said they're not doing that. These two have a interesting and complex friendship and I can't wait to see more development from it.

I'm moreso excited with a connection now to the writers saying Hook will fight for Emma's heart this season. This man is not going to ever stop fighting for Emma.

wild sage growing · 02-23-2015, 02:56 AM

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Originally Posted by CityGal (View Post)

I don't mind rather enjoy the thought provoking discussion.

I'm glad. I always really enjoy your meta, friend.

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Originally Posted by CityGal (View Post)

Oh, I think that is most likely since they ended 4A on a positive note and clearly Henry wants them to work together. I think my writing wasn't clear and I apologize. Adam and Eddy are writing a new fairytale story so I usually think in terms of the totality of the series. Short term in my view could be an entire season. In the last E&A interview (posted in OP), they said they are in the middle of the story (whether they meant Regina's specifically or the series, not sure) so that was my reference to short term.

So in the beginning of this arc, I do believe Emma will help Regina in-good-faith and likewise from Regina, but if at the end of the arc, Regina is at the edge faced with her "happy ending" and Rumple is, once again, right besides her, and all that stands in her way is Emma...then yeah, I could see Rumple manipulate via a word or two to get Regina to "take it". And for story purposes, yes, I could see Regina finally succumb again (and it would parallel and contrast with the car scene in 4A and the manipulative villain lives on). Was it foreshadowing?

It most certainly was foreshadowing, but I think it was more so pointing to Rumple's eventual fate at the end of 4A. I do think Regina will be tempted again (as will Emma), but ultimately, I don't see either of them making any unforgivable decisions leading up to or in the 4B finale. We've already seen Regina slip back into full-on evil in season two, and we're experiencing Rumple's "off the wagon" arch right now. I can't see them doing that twice in one season. Likewise, if Emma ever goes dark for a significant period of time, I think they'll save that for the very end of the show (season five or six, perhaps?).

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Originally Posted by CityGal (View Post)

So short term, meaning this season's arc, the foils by season's end will be repositioned in the opposite from the premiere. Therefore, IMHO, I don't see the season ending well for Emma.

Agree with this. Emma now has the support that Regina didn't have in the past (not sure where everyone other than Henry is in the story) so it should be an emotional and perhaps magical character growth story for her. And yes, foils. The opposite of Regina's story.

I think foils can take on either role. At different points in time, they'e either following an opposite (though related) path, or a eerily similar one despite their differences. I'm not sure which the show will take on, tbqh. They've thus far flip-flopped each season with Regina and Emma. And the promo has left me with about a thousand questions!

Back to the drawing board with these confusing spoilers! Is it March yet?!

BlueWolf · 02-23-2015, 04:52 AM

The promo was pretty good i have to say.

Im all in for evil/corrupted Emma.(is it too much to ask for her to throw regina around at least once

)
She is such a good hearted character, but there is no doubt that there is much anger in her.
Im excited to see her let this out...maybe the story leads us to a TLK with Killian

Its a bit surprising since the bts pictures we saw, didnt seem to have a Emma who is somehow affected by anything.
So im really interested if the QOD succeed and why they would want Emmas heart to get corrupted.

Im really excited for all in 4b.

Belle,Rumple,QOD,Snow and Charmings secret,Will,Robin,Killian,the author,Possible "evil" Emma.

Those are all interesting plots that hopefully get enough time and wont just be resolved fast and unsatisfying(i look at the killian heart arc last half)

Belleislove · 02-23-2015, 05:02 AM

I'm concerned because they're making Rumple even darker than 4A and he became so unlikeable in that arc that I don't think this is going to improve things any.

Emma was the woman his son loved and the mother of his grandchild. It's so low for him to use her. I can't even....

And they've been very cagey when asked if Rumple wants to get Belle back. They just keep saying he wants "everything" back which I think people are assuming means Belle but I'm not sure that his HE involves her anymore. I think his eyes will be opened, especially by Will/Belle, but I'm not sure one of his intentions is to get his wife back. He's certainly going about it the wrong way.

I have no problems with Belle dating Will. What is she supposed to do? Follow Rumple around trying to make him "be good" while he's hanging with his three new girlfriends?

I don't think so.

scififan2009 · 02-23-2015, 05:16 AM

Why are you worried? This is the show that redeemed the evil queen after she planned to blow up the entire town and everyone in it. Not to mention all the murders she committed in the past. If it happened for her it can happen for Rumple.

He's still not my favourite person right now. But in the end he probably will change.

Belleislove · 02-23-2015, 05:19 AM

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Originally Posted by scififan2009 (View Post)

Why are you worried? This is the show that redeemed the evil queen after she planned to blow up the entire town and everyone in it. Not to mention all the murders she committed in the past. If it happened for her it can happen for Rumple.

He's still not my favourite person right now. But in the end he probably will change.

Oh, I have no doubt they'll try to redeem him and say he's changed and so on and he'll probably make another sacrifice or do something big to help them but that doesn't mean everyone will buy it.

Not everyone buys the redemption of Regina. He's always been my favorite male character but I don't like him right now. I'm just saying for me personally they may be taking him too far. Sometimes tv shows take characters too far and then try to get people to like the character again and they're not often successful with that.

This show in particular has some of the characters do such heinous things, for example Rumple and Regina, and it really is hard to forget those things, even if they have changed allegiances or become better. It's a tv show and of course they need drama, but I think there are probably a lot better ways to do it than making characters this unlikeable and unrootable.

The Rumple I loved was a very flawed, complex person. Right now he's just a straight up villain. But of course the promos and interviews often have things appear worse than they are so who knows?

scififan2009 · 02-23-2015, 05:23 AM

Fair enough.

Austenphile · 02-23-2015, 05:37 AM

I don't think that Rumple's doing anything different than he's always done. He's still a flawed, complex person. As said before what he's doing with Emma is no different than Regina, Zelena, Snow, Anna, etc. He is trying to corrupt someone to get what he wants. It just might seem worse because it's Emma, his grandson's mother. There's still the same motivation. He might be doing it to get Belle back like he used others for the curse, saving his life, or getting the hat. It's not really that different. (Now his being willing to let the whole town kill themselves while he rode off with Henry and Belle without thinking about how they might feel about their loved ones was a bit more problematic to me but no different than Regina wanting to destroy the town except for Henry so I can roll with it).

I think this arc is going to be great for Belle. She will be out of his shadows and have a role other than being his moral compass. And while I have liked Rumbelle, I have always thought she did all the giving so I want to see her have some time to shine for herself before they make up. And I want him to have to fight for her, instead of her always fighting for him. There was a little of that started in the Lacey arc but then he just gave in to the darkness beat up Keith.

Actually we gave good stories teased for Snow and Charming being tested by a past dark secret, Regina trying to find out her happy ending and being tested by the QoD, Emma being tempted by darkness, Robin's story, and whatever is up with Will and Belle. The only person who doesn't seem to have a storyline is Hook. Maybe he will just be Emma's love interest/ sidekick this half or maybe they have something hidden.

Only 6 more days.

fox24 · 02-23-2015, 05:38 AM

I do agree rumple will be redeemed eventually but I don't think it will happen until 4.22 or 5.01. I am sorry to say that but that how I see it I could be wrong though.

Randysgirl · 02-23-2015, 05:45 AM

Tftnt!

Wow. So much to figure out! Can't wait until next Sunday.

fox24 · 02-23-2015, 05:48 AM

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Originally Posted by Austenphile (View Post)

I don't think that Rumple's doing anything different than he's always done. He's still a flawed, complex person. As said before what he's doing with Emma is no different than Regina, Zelena, Snow, Anna, etc. He is trying to corrupt someone to get what he wants. It just might seem worse because it's Emma, his grandson's mother. There's still the same motivation. He might be doing it to get Belle back like he used others for the curse, saving his life, or getting the hat. It's not really that different. (Now his being willing to let the whole town kill themselves while he rode off with Henry and Belle without thinking about how they might feel about their loved ones was a bit more problematic to me but no different than Regina wanting to destroy the town except for Henry so I can roll with it).

I think this arc is going to be great for Belle. She will be out of his shadows and have a role other than being his moral compass. And while I have liked Rumbelle, I have always thought she did all the giving so I want to see her have some time to shine for herself before they make up. And I want him to have to fight for her, instead of her always fighting for him. There was a little of that started in the Lacey arc but then he just gave in to the darkness beat up Keith.

Actually we gave good stories teased for Snow and Charming being tested by a past dark secret, Regina trying to find out her happy ending and being tested by the QoD, Emma being tempted by darkness, Robin's story, and whatever is up with Will and Belle. The only person who doesn't seem to have a storyline is Hook. Maybe he will just be Emma's love interest/ sidekick this half or maybe they have something hidden.

Only 6 more days.

I agree that Rumple has always corrupted people even Zelena. I am hoping to see some of Hooks past. He does have a history with a Queen of darkness. It is intresting to Belle on her own and its good to have Rumple fight for her

Austenphile · 02-23-2015, 06:22 AM

we get some good Snow x Emma scenes without sacrificing the Charming x Emma ones. So far it's been one or the other.

Belleislove · 02-23-2015, 06:27 AM

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Originally Posted by Austenphile (View Post)

we get some good Snow x Emma scenes without sacrificing the Charming x Emma ones. So far it's been one or the other.

I miss the Snow/Emma scenes from Season 1. They were great.

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I agree that Rumple has always corrupted people even Zelena. I am hoping to see some of Hooks past. He does have a history with a Queen of darkness. It is intresting to Belle on her own and its good to have Rumple fight for her
Today 04:45 AM

I don't think Rumple can be blamed completely for Zelena and Regina. This two had plenty of darkness without him and certainly made horrible, bad decisions without his input. But I do take the point that this could be something similar with Emma. I don't like it though. I want to like him again.

And I really have not seen anything that says he's going to fight for Belle.

As an aside, I hope that Emma/Hook have more of a story. They seem to be kind of stalled, imo. They haven't had a real story as a couple yet, imo.

BlueWolf · 02-23-2015, 06:56 AM

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Originally Posted by Belleislove (View Post)

I miss the Snow/Emma scenes from Season 1. They were great.

I miss them dearly, this is one of the biggest dissapointments in my opinion.
It was such a big deal in season 1, their relationship should be explored a lot more.

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Originally Posted by Belleislove (View Post)

I don't think Rumple can be blamed completely for Zelena and Regina. This two had plenty of darkness without him and certainly made horrible, bad decisions without his input. But I do take the point that this could be something similar with Emma. I don't like it though. I want to like him again.

And I really have not seen anything that says he's going to fight for Belle.

As an aside, I hope that Emma/Hook have more of a story. They seem to be kind of stalled, imo. They haven't had a real story as a couple yet, imo.

Its impossible to blame one or the other, rumple just showed them a way to let their darkness out...they walked the path on their own.
That is what season 4 regina doesnt seem to understand and why she bothers me currently.

From the shooting spoilers we saw, nothing seems to indicate that he fights for redemption or for belle...which is dissapointing.
I hope that either this season half or the next, rumples redemption starts.

Yeah, Emma and Hook didnt had much in case of storyline as a couple.
The Stolen heart arc had potential, but wasnt used to its fullest.
I hope this corrupting Emma plot gives us more of them as a couple...they look very couply in the bts shots we saw, that makes me happy

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Fan Forum > General Discussion > Spoilers > OUAT S&S #258 Can you come back from the bad decisions you made and how? This back half is about what makes a hero and what makes a villain.