scorpio_chick

Absolutely. It's obvious that there was no other angle to play, so they just went with that.

LOL I love Jon but man, was this such a huge turn off for me. Sansa is undoudtedly more responsible for him being KITN than Jon is himself. She is the one who had to convince him to fight for their home, she is the one who was willing to face her abuser to get back what belonged to their family. And Jon just conceded it to Dany. Every time I think about that scene it annoys me. Lol How dreadful.

Telepath

Someone needs to take Needle and spank Arya's butt with it.

Leelala

Good point.... Although, I forget how they turn... ? is it as simple as them being bitten?

Seriously absolutely breathtaking

------

I agree with the general consensus regarding Arya... I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt like she was some how in cahoots with Sansa in hopes LF would be listening but it doesn't really make any sense...

And could someone explain to me why Sansa was adamant to send Brienne away?? She had that talk about her with LF but I don't really understand, did I miss a major point to that??

Heda_Khaleesi

this whole scene killed me

and Dany looked gorgeous in her white dress i mean WOW!!!

Viserion as the ice dragon..it will be so sad when Dany has to fight against her own child with his brothers.

Cristofle

I think all the reasons the Arya and Sansa scenes feel half-flat, or weird at least, and no one really understands what either of them is doing, is leading up to the reveal that neither of them actually trust Littlefinger (well, we know Arya doesn't, lol, but also that Sansa doesn't), so it'll be a "cool shock" when they team up to bring about his demise. Alas, I don't think that's being written particularly well. On a second watch, I don't think Arya ever INTENDED to physically harm Sansa, or in her mind was seriously threatening her. She's half-playing her role, and half-trying to figure out if Sansa can be ultimately trusted. However, this is still not an acceptable game to play, because Sansa doesn't know Arya won't actually cut her face off.

Also, it's a plot point to get Brienne to KL, because she apparently has a big scene with Jaime where she tries to get him to get Cersei to see sense because they all need to try to survive together now, which I imagine is part of the catalyst for Jaime to ultimately leave Cersei in the next scene he has with her.

Cristofle

Damn, DP again. Oops.

Kyls

Non spoilerish, but..


emilia_clarke I mean, JEEEZE, one pet of a dragon and he thinks he's one of them.

Oh Kit. Also I love Emilia's laugh.

Drogon's Flame

I agree with Arya and Sansa, just sloppy writing. As for Brienne and Jaime, its true, she tells Jaime its doesn't matter who you are loyal to, after seeing the wight, we are all on the living side...

Then Jaime goes to Cersei who reveals she wont keep her word to help fight WW and Jaime loses it...Cersei threatens to have The Mountain kill Jaime but he calls her bluff and leaves her ass to go North!! YAY!! JAIME!

I kinda have to laugh when I see Dany going off to fight...in dresses, lol. With all the men around her saying all it takes in one arrow... Have no fear plot armor is here!!

Drogon's Flame

oops DP...

Cristofle

"She threatens to have the Mountain kill Jaime."



Why. Why does Cersei still exist in this show. What is she doing, other than wasting everyone's time and resources on a fight that won't matter if the NK takes over the WORLD.

Drogon's Flame

Well she's like the many in Westeros, she doesn't believe the threat of the NK & WW to be that pressing and thinks she can just let Jon/Dany do some of the work and grind them down thus having to face 2 lesser armies instead of 2 full armies. Its actually quite brilliant but we know it aint the case

She believes with her 20k Gold Company + remaining Lannister army, she can handle the NK/WW...She is the Mad Queen!

Cristofle

Except the difference is, the many in Westeros who don't understand the threat of the NK haven't ever seen a WW or a wight. She just nearly charged by a wight per the spoilers, and it has its intended effect on everyone in the room but her (well, and the Mountain, I guess, but I don't even consider that thing human anymore).

Red Dragon

I agree that Jon not bending the knee was not about HIS pride...but he is representing the North and wants to do right by them...and isn't part of the northerners reason (in wanting a KITN) based on pride? Pride that they can look after themselves, that they are self-reliant and strong and can rule themselves best blah blah. I felt like the 'pride' thing still had some meaning because Jon had to be willing to sacrifice the North's pride in order to bow to a southern queen.

I just have such a hard time feeling badly about Jon not talking to Sansa first, Jon bending the knee when he people wouldn't want it, angering Cersei with her being a danger etc. when we know what's coming and so does Jon. The only chance I see for anyone is the dragons. *Maybe* they can win, if they have them. Therefore, although I did not like how they wrote the "bending" scene and how they made it seem like an emotional "I love you so here, I'll bend the knee" instead of a thoughtful decision....Jon IS acting in the best interest of the North and I don't think the 'pride' thing was necessarily out of place. Gaining Dany as a close ally IS more important than the North's pride or even what the northerners want. They may hate him for it, but I think they'll all see and understand when the WW come.

That was how I viewed it anyway.

Cristofle

Also, Mance was very clear that HE wasn't refusing to bend the knee out of pride, and I think Jon believed him- he just still didn't agree with what he was doing. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter to Tormund exactly why Mance did what he did, only that thousands of his people died because of it. Mance believed his people would rather die than have a "Southern" king, and a lot of THEM believed that too- until they died.

scorpio_chick

Nope. Northerners already have enough reason to not want a Southern ruler (especially a Targaryen). Even if they didn't though, the idea that they should be able to determine their own fate is certainly valid in itself. Having Dany and Tormund suggest that it was about pride was an absolute reach and highly annoying, especially coming from Dany, since her pride was one of the main reasons she burned men to death for not wanting to kneel to her.