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alicia · kalinda
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Alicia: Does anyone ever surprise you?
Kalinda: No.
Alicia: Even me?
Kalinda: Especially you.



Alicia: I am amazed at how little I know about you.
Kalinda: What do you wanna know?
Alicia: I'm not sure.

Our wishlist
- Alicia going to Kalinda's apartment
- A road trip
- A & K stuck in an elevator
- a hug/any physical contact
- Alicia playing nurse for K (no dirty thoughts!)
- Sex talk (could that just be girl talk?)
-Dancing

PREVIOUS THREAD

[EndlessღLove]

Thanks Carol

[Kimlegaspi]

Thank you so much - finally that frustrating headline is gone (not that the new one isn't frustrating but it's at least closer to reality). By the way, I noticed that I'm not in the list of the Alicia/Kalinda supporters. Even if this relationship might be dead, please add me to the list.

Did anyone read the Q&A that the Kings did for Vulture? There were so many A/K related questions and the Kings didn't answer a single one of them. Even the elevator seems to be more important than the A/K relationship .

[RyeLyn]

TFTNT

Yes I have read the answers, it's beyond frustrating.
I decide: I'll stop hoping. If the Kings have stopped throwing us empty promises like "it's the core relationship of the show","they are soul mates","they are the only friendship that will survive the time"to keep us hoping, why bother?!

Ignoring the TONS of Kalicia questions is another "We won't get into a public fight with Julianna on this". If they don't even have the courage (or power) even to say it loud (like JM), actually showing Kalicia scenes would be even more of a "public fight with Julianna on this", right? So.

Kings being extremely vague about AK in the interview, ignoring all the AK questions (really? Chose elevator over AK?), while JM being 100% sure "not gonna happen", it's pretty clear to me: NOT GONNA HAPPEN. If there was a "fight" somewhere (not public obviously), Kings obviously have lost it, entirely. They have made the worst choice for whatever reason.

At this stage, I don't buy the "AK can't be friends because K slept with A's husband" thing a bit. Fans have argued enough, read the tons of comments and questions. I have argued, but now I think that's not the point. It's not they can't see how important AK friendship means to the show (they had said it over and over again), not that they don't know how many people watch the show for the friendship not the love triangle or the campaign. They can't be friends doesn't mean they can't interact, doesn't mean they can't stay in the same room. Give the fans a better reason, not the "can't forgive the woman who didn't even know you then, but the husband who was the one took the vow was OK" crap.

I feel extremely sorry for the fellow AK fans. AK fans have done whatever they can, being respectfully polite and calm. Again, it's THE SHOW'S lose! Nothing can make up the Kalicia shaped hole of the show. Without it, it's just another boring woman-cannot-survive-without-man-for-one-second show. Who's gonna watch it? For the repeatedly love triangle? It's even worse than Twilight City, with old people! For the politic? Seriously? Who watch TGW for politics? It's like kindergarten version The House of Cards. For court room scene? Do you really remember the last time we have an impressive court room scene?

Anyway, I still love AK. Do they need us forget how Kalinda chose to face a bullet to protect Alicia? Do they need us to forget they implied Kalinda killed someone to protect Alicia? I just won't forget. Because I'm not an idiot.


in case my post annoys any fan of the show, my apology.
in case my post breaks any rule of the board, feel free to delete or edit it, mods.

[Kiki17]

Originally Posted by Kimlegaspi (View Post) Did anyone read the Q&A that the Kings did for Vulture? There were so many A/K related questions and the Kings didn't answer a single one of them. Even the elevator seems to be more important than the A/K relationship .

That was SUCH BS, even that stupid vociemail question got answer (like seriously?? The voicemail is sooooo dead, was the point?) Not sure why not even NOT one A/K got answer, just so wrong.

[Gelfling]

By the way, I noticed that I'm not in the list of the Alicia/Kalinda supporters. Even if this relationship might be dead, please add me to the list.

Done

Did anyone read the Q&A that the Kings did for Vulture? There were so many A/K related questions and the Kings didn't answer a single one of them.

Of course. What can they say? "it's over now, we have no other choice, it's not ours choice but we broke it and we are Julianna's bitches?"

They're just going to act as if the whole relationship never happened. And all the A/K fans are going to end up acting as if the show never happened. Let's see who wins.

If the Kings have stopped throwing us empty promises like "it's the core relationship of the show","they are soul mates","they are the only friendship that will survive the time"to keep us hoping, why bother?!

The problem is RK broke it for fun. He thought of the shock value but he never thought he'd turn JM against the relationship entirely, which is the only thing that matters in the end apparently. I believe at the time, he was genuine. S2 finale had all the elements they wanted to have in S3. And then JM went berserk.

Ignoring the TONS of Kalicia questions is another "We won't get into a public fight with Julianna on this"

they actually said that? Oh man. She's really putting it to them, isn't she? I figured that it was her trying to go on the record saying they had no choice but to do what she wanted but I didn't thought they would respond.

If there was a "fight" somewhere (not public obviously), Kings obviously have lost it, entirely. They have made the worst choice for whatever reason.

They lost it 2 seasons ago obviously. Kalinda staying behind is only the latest piece of evidence they are not the ones running the show anymore.

At this stage, I don't buy the "AK can't be friends because K slept with A's husband" thing a bit.

I don't either and I'll tell you why: that shouldn't and wouldn't have stopped them from working together in S3 and even less in S4. It's just the justification but the cause if elsewhere.

I feel extremely sorry for the fellow AK fans. AK fans have done whatever they can, being respectfully polite and calm.

We stuck it out, we hoped, we kept talking about it when there was nothing to talk about while shippers bitched and moaned and were generally insulted and sometimes insulting (not on our board, thankfully) but in the end, it's our loss.
They lost a lot of viewers after S2. It's not a coincidence and it's obvious they don't care about numbers that much but still, if you're writing a show to piss off your viewers, I'm not sure you're in the right business. You should probably go into reality tv.

Who's gonna watch it? For the repeatedly love triangle? It's even worse than Twilight City, with old people! For the politic? Seriously? Who watch TGW for politics? It's like kindergarten version The House of Cards. For court room scene? Do you really remember the last time we have an impressive court room scene?

I agree again. The show is getting too big for its britches. They are definitely not as ground breaking as they think they are. Ripped from the headlines? SVU was doing it years ago. Political plotlines might have looked impressive in the 90ies before shows like The West Wing, Boss or House of Cards but now? And love triangles, well even the shippers are tired of it. Not to mention the fact that the writers and Julianna have now succeeded in alienating most of the audience against Alicia as a character, which is not good for anyone. A show can't function when less than 20% of its audience is interested in the lead.

in case my post breaks any rule of the board, feel free to delete or edit it, mods.

Don't worry Rye, you're only saying what a lot of people feel and you managed to be respectful doing it. Nothing to edit here.

I've been holding off on commenting on the interview because frankly, Randomizer did such a great job with her open letter and I'm sure you're all sick of discussing it.

If anyone feels like it, when the wound starts healing a bit, we can get to that A/K survivor game in the next few weeks. I know it's painful now. I tried to watch S1 episodes last week and I just got angry and sad. But maybe later, it'll help.

[Kimlegaspi]

Done

Thank you, Fluff !

Quote: At this stage, I don't buy the "AK can't be friends because K slept with A's husband" thing a bit. I don't either and I'll tell you why: that shouldn't and wouldn't have stopped them from working together in S3 and even less in S4. It's just the justification but the cause if elsewhere.

Unfortunately, that's what I assume too. It just doesn't make sense so there have to be other reasons we don't know about, which frustrates me even more because we, the Kalicia fans, don't have anything to argue. If storylines and popularity don't count, then what does?

I've been holding off on commenting on the interview because frankly, Randomizer did such a great job with her open letter and I'm sure you're all sick of discussing it.

Well, I am not (I might be the only one though ). I have to say it (and read it) again and again and again to get it out of my system.

If anyone feels like it, when the wound starts healing a bit, we can get to that A/K survivor game in the next few weeks. I know it's painful now. I tried to watch S1 episodes last week and I just got angry and sad. But maybe later, it'll help.

I don't know about the others but I'm definitely game. I would love to have an A/K survivor game, especially now.

[Jaundice]

The problem is RK broke it for fun. He thought of the shock value but he never thought he'd turn JM against the relationship entirely, which is the only thing that matters in the end apparently. I believe at the time, he was genuine. S2 finale had all the elements they wanted to have in S3. And then JM went berserk.

I partially agree with this. I *don't* agree that the Kings busted up Alicia and Kalinda "for fun"--I think it was done to move them closer together, because nothing else makes sense. It should have been great, with a lot of separation and angst followed by a lot of emotion. But I *certainly* agree with the "then JM went berserk" part. It's incredibly unlucky that she apparently has some tic against the very idea of ever having anything to do EVER with someone who slept with one's spouse. I doubt that at the time the Kings pitched to JM the idea of the Kalicia rift, they spelled out the fact that eventually the two would reconcile again. Really, why *should* they have? Anyone who understands how a story works should have known that the reconciliation culmination would go without saying. But apparently JM didn't realize that. Had the Kings known exactly how much of a nutcase JM was on the subject, they might still have created a rift (which I still think had great narrative potential), but they probably would have made it a different sort of rift. Now the whole thing is just a mess, probably an unsolvable one.

My only small, slim hope in all of this is the fact that the Kings are clearly trying hard not to address the fan questions about A/K directly might mean that there's currently an ongoing battle going on behind the scenes. I don't have great hope that the Kings are going to *win* this battle, but I certainly hope they're leveraging the fan outcry to try. I really wish that they weren't the polite consensus builders that they seem to be, because at the very least, when the show is done, I wish they'd release some impolitic tell-all on the DVD of the last season. I'm sure we'll never get that, but if I can't get any decent A/K, I at least want to know the real story as to WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?

[Kimlegaspi]

I partially agree with this. I *don't* agree that the Kings busted up Alicia and Kalinda "for fun"--I think it was done to move them closer together, because nothing else makes sense. It should have been great, with a lot of separation and angst followed by a lot of emotion. But I *certainly* agree with the "then JM went berserk" part. It's incredibly unlucky that she apparently has some tic against the very idea of ever having anything to do EVER with someone who slept with one's spouse. I doubt that at the time the Kings pitched to JM the idea of the Kalicia rift, they spelled out the fact that eventually the two would reconcile again. Really, why *should* they have? Anyone who understands how a story works should have known that the reconciliation culmination would go without saying. But apparently JM didn't realize that. Had the Kings known exactly how much of a nutcase JM was on the subject, they might still have created a rift (which I still think had great narrative potential), but they probably would have made it a different sort of rift. Now the whole thing is just a mess, probably an unsolvable one.

I couldn't agree more, Jaundice. I think the only reason why they created a big rift between Alicia and Kalinda was to shake what seemed to be the most solid thing on the show: the A/K friendship. They intended to produce a lot of drama, angst and emotion etc., but they never intended to let the friendship die - on the contrary. They wanted it to be stronger and more mature in the end. I remember that Robert King said in an interview that sometimes a big crisis could kill a friendship, but sometimes it could make a friendship stronger, and that this would happen to Alicia and Kalinda and they would be "best friends in Season 4".

I was so shocked to hear that Julianna Marguilies used the rift to argue the exact opposite. Now I wish they would have created a different kind of rift in Season 2, because JM apparantely can't live with it (I don't know about AJ and the other writers and producers) -- provided that the rift is the actual reason why JM doesn't want this friendship anymore. Like you I hope TPTB will find a way out of this mess and let the friendship and love win in the end.

[tiffany84]

My problem,is if JMs problem with a reconciliation is its not realistic,most of the show is not realistic. The triangle in which a/p have no serious talks about their relationship is not realistic. Also,aren't they basically saying the mistress is more at fault than the husband who cheats?obviously I'm just speculating and don't know the real reason but as of now I don't get it.

[Kiki17]

I am sure RK is kicking himself about that stupid A/K storyline I partially agree he was trying to do it to bring them closer, but he was a totally idiot about it. How can he NOT know this was going to pulled them apart so deeply and now Jules won't have it. Why did he NEED to break them up? Why can the show just have a succesful relantionship? Why does drama always need to be in the picture? Why not just develop A/K more? I don't get it.

[Gelfling]

If storylines and popularity don't count, then what does?

I guess we'll find out if Julianna's limited personal views (and other factors that surely contributed, like Kalinda's popularity) do.

I wish they'd release some impolitic tell-all on the DVD of the last season. I'm sure we'll never get that, but if I can't get any decent A/K, I at least want to know the real story as to WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?

The Kings have had too much class to comment on past conflicts so I don't think we'll get the full story. I think I have an idea but we'll probably never know. They obviously don't think they owe us anything.

My only small, slim hope in all of this is the fact that the Kings are clearly trying hard not to address the fan questions about A/K directly might mean that there's currently an ongoing battle going on behind the scenes.

That's what I think but I don't think the odds are in their favor. Although I guess if Julianna sees fit to goes to the press with it, it might be because she's not getting her way, but we'll see what happens.

I partially agree with this. I *don't* agree that the Kings busted up Alicia and Kalinda "for fun"--I think it was done to move them closer together, because nothing else makes sense.

I have two theories:
- I think A/K was collateral damage in their need to expedite the A/P breakup to get season 2 ending with A/W having sex. They thought it would be a cool twist that would get everyone gasping, and didn't really realize how important A/K was to many viewers until they screwed it up.
- Or Julianna already had a bee up her bonnet about Kalinda and Alicia spending too much time together and Alicia needing "new friends" (is it a coincidence that this was the season when Owen replaced Kalinda as Alicia's confidante? or that Blake suddenly took so much of Kalinda's time that we barely saw them work or interact?) and they tried that without realizing how sad/pissed people would be.

Anyone who understands how a story works should have known that the reconciliation culmination would go without saying.

So I thought like you at the time, that it was to make A/K stronger but I believe we weren't getting the full story even then so ofc that's all that made sense to us, because we were thinking about characters, not real life behind the scenes issues or whatever was at play. And obviously, JM knows even less about narrative and fiction writing than she does about characters motivations so anyone, yes, just not Julianna.

Also,aren't they basically saying the mistress is more at fault than the husband who cheats?obviously I'm just speculating and don't know the real reason but as of now I don't get it.

Julianna is obviously saying that. And then changing her mind in a later interview since now Alicia doesn't love Peter and she's just using him for power. Anyone able to tell if she's on drugs lately?

Well, I am not (I might be the only one though ). I have to say it (and read it) again and again and again to get it out of my system.

I definitely need to get it out of my system, it sometimes keep me up at random.

I don't know about the others but I'm definitely game. I would love to have an A/K survivor game, especially now.

Then it will be done!

[Kimlegaspi]

I definitely need to get it out of my system, it sometimes keep me up at random.

I knew I'm in good company .


I have to say that I'm not only worried about JM's idea that a friendship between Alicia and Kalinda wouldn't be realistic, I'm even more worried about her idea that "to bring it back would be going backwards instead of moving forward."

At first I thought I misread the sentence and had to read it again, but the words were still the same. Honestly, I have no idea what JM is talking about. Alicia going back to Peter -that might be "going backwards", or Alicia being torn between Will and Peter (again and again and again) might be "going backwards." But the friendship between Alicia and Kalinda is such a challenge for BOTH women (and the reconciliation would be too) that there's a huge potential (for both women) to grow. I agree that Alicia should have more friends - not just Kalinda - , but why can't Alicia have Kalinda as her best friend again? I have huge respect for JM and what she's doing with this character but regarding Kalicia I don't get her point of view at all and it worries me that she values this friendship so little. It seems to be a very unique perspective that the rest of the world doesn't share. But unfortunately she seems to have the power to push it through.

[Jaundice]

I am sure RK is kicking himself about that stupid A/K storyline I partially agree he was trying to do it to bring them closer, but he was a totally idiot about it. How can he NOT know this was going to pulled them apart so deeply and now Jules won't have it. Why did he NEED to break them up? Why can the show just have a succesful relantionship? Why does drama always need to be in the picture? Why not just develop A/K more? I don't get it.

I'm sure you're right that both of the Kings (stop focusing on poor Robert! He's only half responsible for all this!) are kicking themselves about the one night stand, because essentially it's cost them Kalicia. I'm sure they both knew how huge a bomb it was going to be, and that was the point of it. It's television, after all--we need conflict and drama. I agree that they could just have left A/K alone to develop organically, and certainly at this point I wish they had. But if the breakup/make up business HAD worked, it would have been lovely. I don't blame the Kings for this one (except for not being able to win the apparent fight): I blame JM. She's the one who's being a total, tone-deaf idiot. I'd like to blame the Kings for being cowards and not going to the mats on this one, but it's hard to do that in absence of any real information about what's going on: we don't know anything about JM's contract, or threats that she might have made, and we *do* know that she seems perfectly happy to spill anything and everything to every journalist who asks her a question. (She easily could have avoided this whole flap by saying something vague to Chris Harnick about how she leaves creative decisions up to the writers and really doesn't know what they have in mind for Alicia/Kalinda in season five. Even if she DID know definitively that she'd tanked the friendship, that would have been the collegial thing to do. But she chose instead to cause outrage among the fans and make the Kings look like her puppets. Nice.)

The Kings have had too much class to comment on past conflicts so I don't think we'll get the full story. I think I have an idea but we'll probably never know. They obviously don't think they owe us anything.

I agree, and the fact is that they DON'T owe us anything. I'm honestly not even sure how important fandom is in a show like The Good Wife; we're a few hundred people at the most, a drop in the bucket of the nine million who watch the show. Are we representative? Do we matter? Who knows?

That's what I think but I don't think the odds are in their favor. Although I guess if Julianna sees fit to goes to the press with it, it might be because she's not getting her way, but we'll see what happens.

I agree with all that, especially the "we'll see what happens." I'm not going to expect a damn thing of Kalicia in season five, and perhaps I'll be pleasantly surprised. But as a result, I'm also going to be much less invested in TGW next season, because A/K was the thing that turned me into a serious fan. If there's no A/K, TGW becomes just another TV show to me.

As far as Jules and the press goes, I started worrying that something weird was up earlier this year, when she and Michelle had a little interview in an EW piece about showrunners and female stars. It was a total puff piece, but rather than just smiling and saying something nice, Jules brought up the A/K disagreement *again*. It seemed oddly out of place there, and now I think it was a symptom of what was going on behind the scenes. I really think that originally Kalicia was supposed to be a pretty big part of the back half of season four, and I also think that Kalinda was originally supposed to leave L/G and go with Cary and Alicia. (That's why the Kings said the bit about how hard it was to introduce a character like Robyn so late in the season--they wouldn't have said that if it had always been their intention to introduce her then.) I'm not sure if something personal transpired between JM and Archie, or ir JM used the Nick outcry to argue that she wanted to separate her character from Kalinda as much as possible, or if it was something else entirely, but the whole second half of season four feels like scrambling to cover up changes. (Notice also how in the Vulture interview Robert says that the first half of the season was about the bankruptcy, and the second half was about Alicia separating from L/G. Those two elements indeed were probably always intended to be part of the season. But the BIG thing that the first half of the season was about was the Nick storyline, and the fact that Kalinda might have MURDERED HER HUSBAND--about whom she clearly had conflicted feelings--to protect Alicia. That's a whole lot bigger narrative than the boring bankruptcy, and the fact that RK isn't even mentioning it is telling.) A lot more changes happened than just ending the Nick storyline three episodes early.

I have two theories: - I think A/K was collateral damage in their need to expedite the A/P breakup to get season 2 ending with A/W having sex. They thought it would be a cool twist that would get everyone gasping, and didn't really realize how important A/K was to many viewers until they screwed it up. - Or Julianna already had a bee up her bonnet about Kalinda and Alicia spending too much time together and Alicia needing "new friends" (is it a coincidence that this was the season when Owen replaced Kalinda as Alicia's confidante? or that Blake suddenly took so much of Kalinda's time that we barely saw them work or interact?) and they tried that without realizing how sad/pissed people would be.

Mmm. More that we'll never know. I think A/K was always a very central relationship in the minds of the Kings, so I don't feel the "collateral damage" thing--I think they knew exactly what they were doing to them, and that its whole purpose was to create a kind of Greek tragedy angle to their friendship--the whole mess was set in motion before either of them met each other and loved each other. I also can't believe that JM had any negative feelings about Kalicia before the ONS reveal, or if she did, I doubt she'd act on them. I found season two quite satisfying from a Kalicia standpoint: the friendship was growing and strengthening, even if Alicia and Kalinda didn't work together quite as much as they had in season one. But the *quality* of their scenes in season two was better overall, so I had no complaints despite Blake and Owen.

So I thought like you at the time, that it was to make A/K stronger but I believe we weren't getting the full story even then so ofc that's all that made sense to us, because we were thinking about characters, not real life behind the scenes issues or whatever was at play. And obviously, JM knows even less about narrative and fiction writing than she does about characters motivations so anyone, yes, just not Julianna.

I'm really shocked at how DUMB she's being about how stories work--it would be infuriating to be a showrunner and have to deal with something like this. It would make me want to bash my head against the nearest wall, over and over!

Alicia going back to Peter -that might be "going backwards", or Alicia being torn between Will and Peter (again and again and again) might be "going backwards." But the friendship between Alicia and Kalinda is such a challenge for BOTH women (and the reconciliation would be too) that there's a huge potential (for both women) to grow. I agree that Alicia should have more friends - not just Kalinda - , but why can't Alicia have Kalinda as her best friend again? I have huge respect for JM and what she's doing with this character but regarding Kalicia I don't get her point of view at all and it worries me that she values this friendship so little. It seems to be a very unique perspective that the rest of the world doesn't share. But unfortunately she seems to have the power to push it through.

Yes, that's the unfortunate truth of it all. JM clearly doesn't understand the Kalicia relationship on any level, which is why it's so hard to fathom how she can play Alicia so very well. There's so much Emmy-worthy, dramatic potential for A/K that I can't believe that JM doesn't see it, but apparently she doesn't. JM also appears very insistent that Alicia have "friends," which was one reason for Amanda Peet's character this season. I didn't mind Amanda Peet, and I thought she actually had pretty good chemistry with Will--better than Alicia's, really--but the quick, easy "friendship" between Alicia and Laura was both completely unearned and more or less out of character for Alicia. Alicia doesn't give it away that easily, which is why her friendship with Kalinda was so fascinating and compelling.

The only good thing about all of this is the fact that it's been forced out into the open. Maybe there HAS been enough outcry for something to change next season. It might be a slim chance, but that's certainly better than no chance at all.

[tiffany84]

Also,just wanted to say,JM does a great job playing Alicia but imo one of the most important parts of being an actor is staying neutral--at least on the surface--to the storylines. There's plenty of actors on all different shows who i'm sure don't like all the storylines they get,but they go with it because that's their job and because of the fans. I have much respect for JM but I really don't like the idea of her dictating what storylines Alicia does and does not have.