[jediwands]

Just rewatched. It's interesting because I have multiple comments from this episode over the years and all my thoughts consistently are the same. When it comes to season 2 Madison, my thoughts do not change.

So here we have it... introduction of the babysitter and teen boy... she starts off with a bang, doesn't she... insulting his comic books because she thinks she's cool. Then her "listen if you're going to need any help with your homework" to let her know or to call if you're going to be gone more than an hour is sickening. These two have illegal sex yet she's talking to him like a child right now. It is twisted.

Love Delia and her hat. I've always loved Delia wearing hats.

Abbott home... I love how Rose constantly humors Harold.

Amy looks so depressed in class. Amy talks right through the guy who asks her out.

Harold's response to Linda's office is hilarious. Louise loving it makes it even more awesome.

What gave Madison the right to throw out Ephrams pizza? Seriously. What gave her the right? Then she highlights all the more she's out of high school and Ephram's just a boy when she makes fun of him for having to write a paper. Why's she even focusing on Ephram, she's there for Delia. Immediately, she was disrespecting being hired by Andy given what she's doing with Ephram and allowing Delia to witness everything.

Poor Colin's father drinking away his issues. He simply cannot be helped as Andy soon finds out. It's really heartbreaking.

Bright's tragic flaw was his looks because being this attractive comes with a cost. You rock, Bright. I also love how Bright is looking out for Amy and wants Ephram to ask her out before she says yes to that popular dude.

Harold choking on that drink Linda wanted him to drink is... This sibling pairing is fun.

Again, WHY is Madison anywhere near Ephram? He's watching TV and she shuts the TV off on Ephram? Honest to God, who does she think she is?????!!! Why is she asking him about his paper and demanding that he set the table? Is she his mother or sister? She later has sex with this boy she's treating like a child. I can't get over this sick fact. She is Delia's babysitter. She has zero business being anywhere near Ephram, barking at him. She's vile.

Abbott dinner... Haha Oh the Abbott meals at the table was a running theme I always appreciated.

Linda fixing Harold's neck is great. I love how Linda told her brother he can't even hold two glasses of wine, haha.

Oh terrific, Madison is back and actually called Ephram a big teddy bear? She is so repulsive. She ruins season 2 for me. I can't stand her. Make this piece of trash go away and fast.

She smiled, showing her teeth like a condescending witch then shoves a carrot stick in his mouth. Was that meant to be funny? It wasn't funny, it was a freak show.

Poor Nina being so neglected by Andy. I've never liked these moments when Andy's so thoughtless and clueless.

Madison: You want to pretend to fire me again? Might make you feel better.

She is a disgusting piece of trash. She calls him a tiger at the mini golf place. She embarrasses him in front of Amy. I can't even believe my eyes. Make it stop.

I love how Nina ripped Andy a new one. Every word she said was true.

Now I am at the famous part with Madison screaming at Andy and Ephram. Who does she think she is????? She said no she wasn't finished when Andy wanted her to stop!!!! What a smug piece of trash! She called Nina a neighbor and Amy a crush? News flash, Bucky, you have no clue what these women mean to Andy and Ephram. I cannot believe this scene. It is the worst scene of the episode. Andy and Ephram look so pathetic as this smug witch verbally attacks them. She asks who is worried about Delia? Oh really? Really, Madison? You are thick enough to ask this question and then in the not so distant future you are sleeping with her underage brother, making Delia all confused and uneasy. WOW.

To make matters worse, she said she had a life of her own to lead and she'll be back tomorrow and expects to see new attitudes. Did I just hear that correctly? She should have been shoved out the door permanently. To think about her mug being on the screen off and on from this point forward is a nightmare. It's actually going to get worse. She's THE biggest mistake Berlanti made of his series. She never should have been introduced. She is VILE.

I love how Andy compared Nina to Julia in the make up scene as he made Nina food. So adorable and heartfelt. This episode reminds me of how Nina really helps Andy move on from Julia. It's wonderful. Nina eating what Andy made saying it is terrible followed by Andy agreeing is so funny. I love these two.

Andy and Harold at the end bantering is a breath of fresh air in an otherwise disgusting, Madison introduction episode.

I would actually like to attend Linda's yoga class. It sounds perfect to me.

The Ephram and Amy scene... Awe. Ephram, you are so amazing giving Amy your paper. The hug then Ephram watching her walk away as he knows he's "losing" her to the depression is so sad.

Ephram and his paper theme is so good and dead on. Sitting behind Amy in class... It's such a poetic moment... Ephram knows he's losing Amy temporarily and there's nothing he can do but wait it out and support her when she allows him to be there. Otherwise, he knows the road is bumpy and only time can smooth things out.

Andy taking off his ring is such a huge deal. It is an enormous turning point for him.

I definitely was all over the place in this review/write up. I just hate Madison so much. If you could see me as I view her scenes, I am physically showing discomfort. My face gets red, jaw tightens, stomach tightens, neck feels achy. I simply cannot stand this character. I have never hated a TV character more than this one. I get so uptight watching any of her scenes, especially knowing what's to come. You'd think as I rewatch more and more, coupled with knowing how the series ends, my frustration would lessen but it never does.

[Alexa]

Madison was a bit overbearing but I didn't get why Ephram was blowing up at her. It was really weird to me. Because it seemed obvious from the get-go that he was attracted to her.

I didn't hate her the first time around (i actually found the SL kind of interesting before the baby stuff) and I still don't hate her, but knowing what comes of the storyline I do dread her now when I watch these episodes. I thought they had good banter this episode but she did come it a bit too strongly. There was just too much of her in one episode. I did like when she yelled at the browns though.

Loved the Ephram/Nina scene. . Always love seeing them interact.

Its hard seeing Amy like this. And even harder with the lack of Ephram/Amy scenes. The ending scene was cute though.

I do not care about Colin's parents! Never have.

[jediwands]

I know I'd be able to digest Madison better (and I'd wager a guess the vast majority that hate her along with me agree) if:

1. She never got pregnant.
2. She didn't linger throughout the entire series from this point forward.

Madison wasn't Tommy where he served a purpose and was done. She lingered, affected all the main characters and not in a good way. That's why a large portion of Everwood fans hate her putting aside the fact that Berlanti made it known the relationship wasn't legal. Based on the other stuff, the illegal situation seems like nothing. Berlanti took this character and used her for dramatic purposes only.

I love strong women TV characters. That's why I love The 100 so much. Love the strong women on that show! Madison doesn't represent a strong woman. She's a coward, in fact. Another reason I can't stand her. She makes the decision to be with Ephram yet hides behind closed doors with him. She never told Ephram about the pregnancy until it was too late. There's the take that Andy prevented her from telling Ephram. Well, the Madison in this very episode wouldn't have let Andy tell her what to do. She never even listened to Andy when he begged them not to get together romantically. She never listened to him. It's funny that the moment she finally listens to him is the most important time she shouldn't have. She was a coward, never owning up to any of her mistakes or serious responsibilities. Everything she did was the opposite of showing strength and courage.

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by Alexa (View Post) Madison was a bit overbearing but I didn't get why Ephram was blowing up at her. It was really weird to me. Because it seemed obvious from the get-go that he was attracted to her. I didn't hate her the first time around (i actually found the SL kind of interesting before the baby stuff) and I still don't hate her, but knowing what comes of the storyline I do dread her now when I watch these episodes. I thought they had good banter this episode but she did come it a bit too strongly. There was just too much of her in one episode. I did like when she yelled at the browns though.

I am in agreement with you on this, Alexa. I did sense an attraction between Ephram and Madison from the first scene and I didn't hate her, but found her somewhat obnoxious. But..in hindsight...Madison was not a good addition to this show.

I do not care about Colin's parents! Never have.

Couldn't stand them from the first moment I saw them. Just the way they mistreated their daughter, Laynie, was enough for me to detest them.
And...both Mr. and Mrs. Hart seem to believe they know so much more than the doctor!

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by The Apt (View Post) These two have illegal sex yet she's talking to him like a child right now. It is twisted.

Hated the way she bossed Ephram around and embarrassed him..especially in front of Amy and that creepy date. Did she have to mention, "I'm the babysitter." .

Abbott home... I love how Rose constantly humors Harold.

Harold is so lucky to have Rose. She totally understands him! lol

Harold's response to Linda's office is hilarious. Louise loving it makes it even more awesome

.
Love it!! Hilarious. I love this Harold..pompous...fuddy duddy....complainer....but such a loving sweetie all at the same time!

What gave Madison the right to throw out Ephrams pizza? Seriously. What gave her the right? Then she highlights all the more she's out of high school and Ephram's just a boy when she makes fun of him for having to write a paper. Why's she even focusing on Ephram, she's there for Delia. Immediately, she was disrespecting being hired by Andy given what she's doing with Ephram and allowing Delia to witness everything

.

Madison had absolutely no right to throw out that pizza. That's not her house! Plus..how does she know Ephram is behind? None of her business!

Bright's tragic flaw was his looks because being this attractive comes with a cost. You rock, Bright. I also love how Bright is looking out for Amy and wants Ephram to ask her out before she says yes to that popular dude.

I love the budding friendship between these two. For Bright to ask Ephram to ask Amy out was a clear sign of the respect Bright had for Ephram as a "good guy."

Abbott dinner... Haha Oh the Abbott meals at the table was a running theme I always appreciated.

I think they were having ham! Love to try Rose's ham! lol

She smiled, showing her teeth like a condescending witch then shoves a carrot stick in his mouth. Was that meant to be funny? It wasn't funny, it was a freak show.

So insulting!!!

Poor Nina being so neglected by Andy. I've never liked these moments when Andy's so thoughtless and clueless.

I agree that Andy was being thoughtless and clueless with Nina, but I did feel that she appeared really annoyed when Andy left the bar with Mr. Hart. What did he expect Andy to do...let Jim Hart just drive away drunk?

Andy and Harold at the end bantering is a breath of fresh air in an otherwise disgusting, Madison introduction episode.

You could see that Andy and Linda were becoming attracted to each other and Harold was not liking it. lol

The Ephram and Amy scene... Awe. Ephram, you are so amazing giving Amy your paper. The hug then Ephram watching her walk away as he knows he's "losing" her to the depression is so sad.

He just fell against the locker..filled with love and angst...

Ephram and his paper theme is so good and dead on. Sitting behind Amy in class... It's such a poetic moment... Ephram knows he's losing Amy temporarily and there's nothing he can do but wait it out and support her when she allows him to be there. Otherwise, he knows the road is bumpy and only time can smooth things out.

Love that the theme of Ephram's paper summarized all that happened in the episode...Nina didn't want to change (threw away divorce papers)...Jim Hart didn't want to change (kept drinking)...Andy didn't want to change (although he finally did)...Amy didn't want to move on after Colin...
That was a fabulous paper. Take that, Madison!! Can you write like that?!?

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) I did sense an attraction between Ephram and Madison from the first scene and I didn't hate her, but found her somewhat obnoxious. But..in hindsight...Madison was not a good addition to this show.

I sensed an attraction too but for me, it made me hate Madison even more. She had no business focusing on any attraction to the high school son of her employer. If she did her job properly she wouldn't have even noticed Ephram. Who does this? The vast majority of sane human beings who are hired for a job in a home wouldn't be focusing on the high school son of their employer. It's gross.

I agree that Andy was being thoughtless and clueless with Nina, but I did feel that she appeared really annoyed when Andy left the bar with Mr. Hart. What did he expect Andy to do...let Jim Hart just drive away drunk?

Nina certainly wasn't great in that scene as well. I just made a generalized comment about the constant clueless stuff Andy went with until they finally got together.

But with Nina, she shouldn't have brought up the wedding ring. She's pissed at him for being a sucky friend and still brings up the wedding ring. Not necessary and especially cruel. Then she leaves his office because he's on the phone.

Love that the theme of Ephram's paper summarized all that happened in the episode...Nina didn't want to change (threw away divorce papers)...Jim Hart didn't want to change (kept drinking)...Andy didn't want to change (although he finally did)...Amy didn't want to move on after Colin... That was a fabulous paper. Take that, Madison!! Can you write like that?!?

That's very true... Ephram's paper certainly summarized a theme in this episode.

[everwoodfan52]

Nina certainly wasn't great in that scene as well. I just made a generalized comment about the constant clueless stuff Andy went with until they finally got together.

Andy is definitely one of the most clueless men ever!! We are in for more of this, unfortunately... more misunderstandings...more insensitivity on Andy's part!

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) Andy is definitely one of the most clueless men ever!! We are in for more of this, unfortunately... more misunderstandings...more insensitivity on Andy's part!

Andy's pretty much clueless and at times, insensitive, right up until the moment he officially gets together romantically with Nina. However, I do feel sorry for him at this point in season 2 given what's about to happen between the adult babysitter he trusted and hired to take care of his daughter, and his high school son. He tried desperately to stop this disaster but neither one of them would listen to him. As we know, the choice Ephram/Madison make affects every main dynamic of the series from this point forward. That's why this particular episode is so frustrating to watch. It's the beginning of the worst storyline of the series.

[Jerry D]

I wasn't feeling well today but I'm going to try to watch the episode tomorrow after work and post my commentary.

[jediwands]

Sounds good, Jerry.

[secretk]

I will try to watch these days, but given the presentation I have to give tomorrow I am a little bit under of pressure and prefer to watch the show after the presentation.

[jediwands]

Take your time, everyone.

I do wish others would join in as well. Hopefully they do eventually.

[secretk]

I finally managed to watch the episode .

To be honest I consider myself lucky because Madison still doesn't annoy me. The pregnancy story annoys me, but she doesn't. I know. Weird .

I also have to be honest and say that the Madison/Ephram scenes were quite funny. I enjoy sarcastic Ephram so naturally I laughed at those.

Also loved Harold's moments this episode. Tom is just a great actor. As far as Linda goes I was take it or leave it, but I think that Harold did have a point. Linda should have said to him what kind of medicine she would practice.

The Abott dinner was indeed quite funny . In comparison to the Brown's household.

Michelle I agree with you that sometimes Andy was totally clueless. Especially when it came to Nina. On the other hand Andy really did not mention to Ephram about the divorce with bad intentions. So yes maybe Nina went a little over board, but Andy needed this. She was right and she pushed him into the right direction.

Bright was as usual funny thinking that his tragic flaw is his looks . Ephram was so sweet to Amy giving her his homework. His one was awesome. So true for a lot of grown ups. I loved his speech at the end of the episode and it corresponded great to the scenes with the other characters.

Now about the weird. Unlike most people I actually cheered on Madison because honestly this is what Andy and Ephram needed to hear. I completely agreed with her assessment and I'm glad that they were told off. I also love Andy's reaction afterwards. I'm going to fire her . Also loved Delia telling him to not fire her. She was awesome as usual.

[jediwands]

Originally Posted by secretk (View Post) I finally managed to watch the episode . To be honest I consider myself lucky because Madison still doesn't annoy me. The pregnancy story annoys me, but she doesn't. I know. Weird .

Consider yourself lucky! Seriously, I wish I felt the same way that you do. I do think my hatred for Madison doesn't allow me to enjoy season 2 as much as I want to and I hate it.

The Abott dinner was indeed quite funny . In comparison to the Brown's household.

I love how Berlanti made it a point to show the running theme with the Abbott meals at the table.

Michelle I agree with you that sometimes Andy was totally clueless. Especially when it came to Nina. On the other hand Andy really did not mention to Ephram about the divorce with bad intentions. So yes maybe Nina went a little over board, but Andy needed this. She was right and she pushed him into the right direction. Bright was as usual funny thinking that his tragic flaw is his looks . Ephram was so sweet to Amy giving her his homework. His one was awesome. So true for a lot of grown ups. I loved his speech at the end of the episode and it corresponded great to the scenes with the other characters.

Agreed.

Now about the weird. Unlike most people I actually cheered on Madison because honestly this is what Andy and Ephram needed to hear. I completely agreed with her assessment and I'm glad that they were told off. I also love Andy's reaction afterwards. I'm going to fire her . Also loved Delia telling him to not fire her. She was awesome as usual.

Well, I can't agree here because I wanted to jump through my screen and beat the crap out of Madison. How dare she just stroll in there and act like that. I also think knowing what's to come and how she should have listened to Andy about the relationship also makes me especially hate her as well. She wanted to be heard in this episode yet when it was time for her to actually listen to Andy about how bad of an idea it was to get involved with Ephram romantically apparently Andy wasn't heard.

That said... what she did say I can agree that some of her words made sense. I just would have liked them coming from someone else. Like Nina... if Nina would have blown up like that and said some harsh words for constructive criticism, now that would have been funny and entirely appropriate. That would have been Nina's place to go there too. She knows the family, is friends with Andy, has had moments with Ephram and Delia. However, it was not Madison's place to act like that. I think it was quite inappropriate actually.

[jediwands]

Going to untop this thread now so I can get up the 2017 Rewatch Thread.