serendipity or fate

s h i p p e r s

0 1. Lisa 2011

0 2. Rebel_Diamond

0 3. SergeantPepper

0 4. Redlight-Electr0

0 5. 4brathan&brucas

0 6. BrathanSupporter

0 7. teddybears

0 8. courtneybangelcakes

0 9. ♥ Laura ♥

1 0. Icey_

1 1. LPhhrdcLover

1 2. Natasha122

1 3. LALEY-FOREVER

1 4. OTH_OC_Lover

1 5. Kelly_Dylan

1 6. How-very-girl629

1 7. natural_disaster

1 8. _xGemmax_

1 9. .: DoDs:.

2 0. Caridee

2 1. Sapphire Red

2 2. mesmerized

2 3. Ruby_Slippers

2 4. cocunut16

2 5. Nerenafan

2 6. CharlotteC

2 7. brokenshards

2 8. Brucas_Is_Love

2 9. kuni

3 0. makry

3 1. Brucasfanalways

3 2. Majora's Mask

3 3. jazzyb019

3 4. NateScottLover

3 5. marinalima

3 6. ~AIR~

3 7. restlesshearts24

3 8. ilovecappie

3 9. matchesgurl07

4 0. Queen Bee

4 1. edun18

4 2.||michelle||

4 3. agarina

4 4. marmuzetka

4 5. theresadawn

4 6. mariem201

4 7. kimi12

4 8. TLA=Leyton

4 9. airali_glo

5 0. Nilღ

5 1. Kiane

5 2. Saranoh

5 3. Beautiful Disorder

5 4. Laurababora

5 5. yuzzz66

5 6. peace_love_couture

5 7. emerald_city

f u t u r e t i t l e s

0 1. Because their parents never had "relations" OR a love child.

0 2. Because the course of true love never did run smooth.

0 3. Because if you love me, would you please let me know?

0 4. Because I love you, not for what you are, but for what I am when I'm with you.

0 5. Because if I know what love is, it is because of you.

0 6. But to see her was to love her, love but her, and love her forever.

0 7. Because this ship is hitting one iceberg after another.

0 8. The fight for you is all I've ever known, so come home...

0 9. When you break your chains&your free again, I'll be waiting here to tak you in.

r e a s o n s

0 1. Because he loves her, not what he wants her to be.

0 2. Because their daughter will be named Venus Van Der Woodsen-Archibald, FTW

0 3. Because he doesn't care what her last name is.

0 4. Because they spark.

0 5. Because Dan dreams about them getting it on.

0 6. Because Serena wouldn't hurt Blair for nothing.

0 7. Because she would do anything to help him.

0 8. Because They make us and each other Happy.

0 9. Because oh seven scenes over 200 shippers, not too shabby.

0 9. Because love makes you do the wacky...like going into brooklyn.

1 0. Because "Wow". Yeah.

1 1. Because they trust each other.

1 2. Because he doesn't care if she smells like a brewery.

1 3. Because Ruffles Humphrey? Really, Ruffles Humphrey?

1 4. Because she needs to learn to accept herself and Nate could help her.

1 5. Because Chuck ships them. Enough Said.

1 6. Because they don't have siblings or destiny, they have a life long thing thats natural and Building.

1 7. Because The Captain may be one of the few guys Lily hasn't slept with.

1 8. Because they were in a book club.

1 9. Because Vanessa should stop dating people who want Serena.

2 0. Because Nate knew Serena didn't cheat on Dan.

2 1. If limos are CB's thing, bar stools are NS's place. Which is better than fake snow.

2 2. Because the REAL Serena Loves the REAL Nate.

2 3. Because Lily may be an awful mother, but she knew S loved N.

2 4. Because they bring out the best in each other.

2 5. Because they're not cheesy.

2 6. Because, "Get me drunk." ღ "Absolutely."

Spoilers

Interviews:

Spotted:

- GG in Paris

Filming Pics:

Stills:

jnnj

Thanks for the new thread, Chels!

Great pick for the "Perfect Moment". They really had some lovely moments this season mixed in with the crazy the writers threw at them.

serendipity or fate

Thanks, bb! I loved that moment so much! It kinda reminded me of the spin that Serena did in the Pilot during bar!sex, and that is pretty iconic in my NS-obsessed head.

And this! This is just adorable!



I'm posting so many pictures of this filming session 'cause atm I'm updating the site with them.

jnnj

Aw, I see why you connect the two scenes.

Looking at these BTS pics, I wish I could have overheard their conversation. Whatever they were talking about that day had them laughing all the time.

serendipity or fate

I just LOVE how "fluffy" they are together. (can't think of a better word. )

You know what else I want, aside from Serena pining for Nate in S4 - MORE FLASHBACKS!

jnnj

Oh, "fluffy" is a good word for them.

She looked so tipsy in that scene. That's part of the shower scene (for want of a better reference word for it), am I right? Flashbacks would be so nice, especially if we are dealing with a memory jog for Chuck. I'd like to see more of the NSCB quad interacting when they were younger.

If we get Serena pining for Nate, I think seeing her actively pursue Nate would be so very interesting to watch. And it won't be satisfying until Nate finally gives in and gives her another chance (after letting her prove her readiness and growth).

You know, I was just thinking of what she told Nate in 3.22 about wanting them to be "us" again. In addition to Serena putting her choices with men in relation to her issues with William's abandonment into perspective, I think one of the things I'd like to see the writers allow Serena to do in S4 in her interaction with Nate is be OK with allowing the complicated, messy stuff into their relationship. She needs to be OK when things aren't bubbly or happy all the time. She has to trust that things aren't going to absolutely fall apart if she opens up to him about what truly hurts her, and avoid the penchant to cope through escape. I don't know if I'm making any sense. It's late so it's possible that I'm just rambling.

ETA: Chels, if you're still here, I've got to get to bed. I'll catch up with you tomorrow.

serendipity or fate

It is part of the shower scene. The very beginning, when Nate first arrives at Blair's house.

Aww! If Chuck really has amnesia, then, that would be a perfect way to incorporate more flashbacks into the show! Good thinking, bb!

I definitely need to see Serena pursuing Nate, on top of pining for him. But I want lots of declarations of feelings - cause we got virtually zero besides "Me too."

Aww. That's very true about 3x22. It kinda reminds me of 3x14, when Serena and Nate are talking by the pillar and she admits that she was scared to tell him because "Things have been so good." but Nate reassures her, that while he's "been loving every minute of it" he wants to be that guy that she can bring anything to, "the good and the bad."
I think Nate possess all of the abilities and qualities that she, of course, loves, but honestly needs, in the sense of reassurance and acceptance - but she has to find that stability in herself first. I loved the scene in 3x14, though, how stable it was for Serena.

Oh! I had something from earlier I wanted to discuss:

Angela and I were on the S&S thread and we were discussing somethings:

Me:
Angela:
And her response got me thinking about what exactly these writers wanted us to interpret about 3x13. Was it that Nate and Serena had their own special pace in their own relationship that simply worked for them, and they had to trust that, as we had initially thought (considering B and D's advice completely backfired when N and S tried to make use of it) - or, were we supposed to take something else/something more from that whole montage? Was there some truth to it? Is this some sort of stupid foreshadowing for the D/S mess in the finale?
I dunno. Angela's comments just got me thinking...
I'm not saying that I think Dan knows Serena better than Nate does. Not in the least - cause obviously, Serena can open up to Nate when there is nothing else in the way or on her mind easily - unlike with Dan... but... I dont know. Angela's comment just got me thinking.
And if I'm not making sense - simply tell me what your thoughts are on me and Angela's convo.

.:DoDs:.

emerald_city

Bunnies...Come out, Come out!!

jnnj

Chels! You posted this while I was logging off I think so I'm sorry I missed you. Let me catch up now.

Well, we got her "I love yous" too. But it would certainly be nice to see her actions no longer conflict with her words once she's sorted through her issues over William.

First, I agree the external factors were instigators or triggers of internal issues, not issues in and of themeslves. I agree with you that angst really isn't who Nate and Serena are because, left to their own devices, they probably would just carry on drama-free. But they needed the angst to address things that are/were important to them. The people and situations around them were necessary to get them to bring internal issues to the surface, engage in introspection, and, if possible, heal a particular point of conflict. Looking at 3.14, I believe there was an external force creating conflict but it was indirect. Serena's reaction to Elizabeth (an external force) stirred up her insecurities over the way her father left her (her individual inner conflict) which rippled to her relationship with Nate in a minor way at the time (introducing what would become their major issue as a couple for the rest of the season). In the grand scheme of things, when it came to their pace, it was about how they both viewed the relationship. They settled that with relative ease. When it came to their past, it was about Nate's insecurity over how she left pre-pilot. They settled that with relative ease. In-between they both dealt with territorial/jealousy feelings due to Carter and Jenny. They settled that once misunderstandings were clarified. But when it came to trust/opening up, it was about Serena's insecurity over how her Dad left her and that was a season-long venture.

This leads me to your wondering about foreshadowing (and I hope I'm understanding your question). I don't think the Nate/Dan 3.13 convo was a foreshadowing of Dan/Serena's interaction in 3.21/3.22 per se. Specific to 3.13, the convo was about helping to establish Nate and Serena's pairing personality (their inability to find games or overanalysis useful to them, their bubbly/happy affect on each other, and their spontaneity or ability to naturally go with their feelings in a given moment). By the end of the episode they understood who they were together as a couple. I sincerely believe we accurately intepreted the primary intent of those scenes.

If foreshadowing was to be found in the boys' exchange, then it seems it was foreshadowing how Serena would handle her insecurities about William in general, not just in 3.21. What Dan did was specify a character trait in Serena and how that trait affects her relationships -- she has difficulty opening up, and, as a result, she opts for emotional and physical escape under stress. And that's the essence of what your friend said in her post as well. It wasn't something Nate saw relevant to the pacing question they were confronting in 3.13, but it showed itself in 3.14, 3.18, 3.19, and 3.21. As the season progressed, we were shown that Serena's fear/avoidance of disclosure is apparently linked to her one outstanding emotional struggle -- how much she internalized her father's abandonment (it affects her judgments with men as well as her life decisions before and during her romantic relationship with Nate).

If Dan/Serena's interaction in 3.21 and 3.22 was meant to be a specific throwback to 3.13, then it would have been easier to detect if the EPs/writers gave more they had more on-screen textual significance in these last two eps. But that didn't really happen. Not for me anyway. At the end of 3.21, she didn't want to talk about William; during 3.22, we don't know if she talked much about William with him either. Other than Dan's generalized "Daddy issues" comment at the nursery, which is a known fact within her circle of friends, we weren't shown much. If there were other references indicating they had an in-depth conversation about William, then I missed it. So, it's very possible she didn't open up to Dan any more than she did with Nate. What they did show was that Dan was there when he wanted to be useful, and Serena leaned on him when she wanted space after conflict with Nate and disappointment with William. If anything, the last two episodes emphasized that the 3.13 convo. between the boys seems to be specific to how Serena continues to handle insecurity/stress/anxiety within her relationships and she knows it's something she needs to fix. Just my humble take.

I'm sorry I just kind of rambled on for a bit. And I'm not sure if I answered the question you wanted answered. But I hope I made some sense.

Emerald!

emerald_city

Hey J! I'm glad you addressed this question...I was going to tackle it. And now that you have, I don't need to. I agree with everything you said. I think Chelsea was also saying that depending on which couple you support (or maybe you're indifferent), you might look at the 3.13 ND convo from a different angle. We chose to look at it as Dan not really being aware of what Serena needs and wants in a relationship. We also saw it as, friends who finally get together may not go as "slow" as strangers would in the same relationship. On the flip side, I can see how DSers/people indifferent to NS could look at it as Dan just giving good ole fashioned advice about what it's like to date S. He's been there, done that (3 effing times ) and he was just commenting on what he, himself, had experienced with her. I can't believe that these writers are smart enough to intentionally foreshadow anything to later epi's in this scene (), but I can at least understand how some people could come to that conclusion. It all depends on who you support, IMO.

Which, btw, since the 3.13 ND convo was brought up, this is yet ANOTHER instance where IF Dan actually had feelings for S, we would have seen it. But he didn't. He was just commenting on NS finally getting together. He was unemotional and unattached and worrying about Vanessa the whole time. So he clearly didn't have any lingering feelings for her that were just waiting to be realized. Soooo......

jnnj

Emerald!

It's so true that a viewer's interpretation can be/is colored by pairing/character preference. Thinking of it now, in a way, both interpretations are right -- Dan was giving advice from his experience in dating Serena and he noted a true character issue for her; at the same time, it seems he also revealed his personality type didn't afford him the luxury of having the type of spontaneous relationship that she seems to have wanted. And I completely agree on the writers. It doesn't appear that this scene in particular in 3.13 foreshadowed anything for the pairings, but apparently foreshadowed more for Serena's characterization (and even Nate's characterization, taking Blair's simultaneous advice into consideration). The writers do seem to do foreshadowing in small doses because they have general plans for their seasons and arcs, but I don't think they're as deliberate in writing their text as viewers are in analyzing it.

This is such a great observation! Exactly! Dan was so focused on Vanessa, and not messing things up with her. I think that touched the core of Dan's personal struggle in his relationship with Vanessa for the rest of the season -- he worried and overthunk the whole thing to exhaustion. He spent so much time doing that, I don't know if he allowed himself the chance to really appreciate Vanessa the way he could have. Serena ended up having similar results with Nate because of her own angst. Like Keri was saying last week, it's very interesting that the timing of Dan's resurge of feelings for Serena came on the heels of his difficult transitioning with Vanessa and feelings of inadequacy. A lot of his babbling in the hospital was about how much "easier" it seems to be with someone you don't know well, the "excitement" of discovery, and so on. As much as he was rationalizing, this seems to have come from a purely emotional response to his situation with Vanessa. So, it really is a curious thing that his Serena "signs" started appearing when they did. But, we're likely overnanalyzing all of this.

Another thought just ran through my mind; a good point was made in Chelsea's exchange with her friend on S&S about one of S3's themes being "role playing" (literally and figuratively). It also seems the idea of "creating and crossing/disregarding boundaries" was another S3 theme. I'm guessing one of S4's themes is likely redemption, specifically for Chuck, Serena, and Jenny (maybe Dan to some degree). I'm also wondering if "role reversals" would be another S4 theme. Time will tell.

emerald_city

ICA. I think that scene functioned as 1) Dan legitimately having advice about who Serena is in relationships and 2) Showing that Dan may not have all the answers where a relationship between Nate and Serena is concerned. I don't think Dan's advice was bad or even off the mark. But it didn't fit NATE and SERENA as a couple. And that kind of advice often doesn't fit couples where the individuals have known eachother forever and grew up together. It's just a different ball game altogether.

This is a really good point. I'm excited to see what the overall theme is for S4 and I agree that it will probably focus on the redemption of Jenny (if she returns), Chuck, and Serena, as individuals. I just want the writers, FOR ONCE, to focus on the individuals and NOT the relationships. If they really want to focus on relationships, fine. But focus on the platonic and familial ones. I just don't get all the bed-hopping and couple-swapping on this show. I hate it. Just, for once, I want to see strong characters who don't waver in their decisions and who have fully functioning brains. Oh, I'm kidding....

.:DoDs:.

I'm geting tired of this

serendipity or fate

Thanks for all the responses guys.

Another thing to think about:

Does anyone think it was telling - the way Serena sort of side stepped this statement Nate made:

Nate: "People don't kiss because they're upset, people kiss because they have feelings for each other."
Serena: "Nate, that's ridiculous. He's with Vanessa, and I'm - I'm with you."

There was no definitive answer from Serena and I wonder why. If she was so certain that she loved him, seeing as how she said it three times in this episode alone, then why not simply say that? I'm just curious what your guys' thoughts are if it meant anything in regards to DS or why it was written that way.
It was sort of similar in the way Dan and Serena's phone call earlier in the episode was written. When Dan said that he didn't want to mess things up for her and Nate or himself and Vanessa and Serena agreed, 'cause "it didn't mean anything... Right?"
But then Rufus interrupted.

Thoughts?