ER - Discussion of the week: Which part of ER was/is underrated?

Aurora Cormier · 03-05-2014, 12:16 PM

Okay, I know it looks like Start A New Thread Day for me, but I promise this is the last one, okay?

This is actually an idea that I had a while ago, and I talked to Stephen about it and he liked it, but then I ended up not starting the thread, and now I felt like it again

I know we already have a General Discussion thread but...it seems too "general" indeed, like anything goes, even unimportant events, so I thought we could try to have a thread for specific discussions of the serious issues the show dealt with. Originally I thought we could change the topic weekly, but if you guys want we can carry on the discussion for longer than that

So, this idea came to me when I was watching Sleepless In Chicago a while ago. I always feel so sorry for the whole Tatiana storyline

I remember the first thousand times I watched this episode (cause that's how many times I've seen the first season and I still never tire of it) I got so annoyed when others (Lydia, Tag) would frown at the idea of her adopting, and I was awwwww when Doug supported her, but really...were Lydia and Tag really wrong at all, when such little time had passed since Carol's suicide attempt? So, from that, I started wondering, how do YOU guys feel about the course, and specially the end, of that storyline? Did you like the way ER developed its adoption storylines (Tatiana, Susie, Carlos)

Write, write, write

I'm Not Dead · 03-05-2014, 04:16 PM

Thanks for starting this, Ju!

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but really...were Lydia and Tag really wrong at all, when such little time had passed since Carol's suicide attempt?

This is exactly the way that I feel now that I have revisited the Tatiana storylines so many times. As well-intentioned as Carol was, there is no question that she rushed into the whole adoption idea. I think, because of her suicide attempt, Tatiana represented an opportunity for Carol to smooth over her own scars and prove to the world, "Hey, look! I have a kid! I'm okay now! So you can all stop asking me how the hell I am!" Maybe that is harsh, and I know she was very taken with Tatiana, but Carol had so much growth and maturing to do of her own (I mean, less than a season later she was living in a house without a roof) so I understand that the whole Tatiana storyline had to play out the way that it did. If it had gone a different way and Carol had been able to keep her, I think it would have been a problematic burden of a storyline in the long run.

I was far more disappointed that Susan did not get to keep custody of Susie. Because of how different the circumstances were from Carol/Tatiana, I think it would have been fascinating to see (had Sherry stayed) a young doctor at the beginning of her career juggle single motherhood. Susan could have been played as such an interesting contrast to Mark, who barely had any involvement with his daughter as time went on, and I only wish we had seen a custody situation where Chloe was never allowed to take care of Susie again. I mean, Susan lived with them in what sounded like perfect harmony in Phoenix for 5 years, then moved back to Chicago, and within a couple of months Chloe has gone off the deep end again. Just UGHHHHHH, CHLOE!!!! I will always be disappointed that Sherry's leaving negated the possibility of such a rich storyline in subsequent seasons.

I liked Jeanie's adoption of Carlos. I never got particularly invested in the storyline, and I thought that the whole Jeanie/Reggie 'love story' was too rushed, but on paper alone it was great to see ER show that a HIV-positive woman could still find fulfilment and richness in her life, both professionally and personally. Jeanie had also gone through such a tremendous period in the years since her diagnosis, and her return in Season 14 proved that she became such a valuable and positive influence for the HIV community. It was clear from that one episode appearance that she made a great mother to Carlos, and surely raised him to see that HIV/AIDS was not the sum-total of his identity.

All in all, I think ER did a good job in showing the importance and value of adoptive and/or makeshift families. Kerry and Peter went to court to fight for the right to raise their sons, even when there was no biological link. Gates became a solid parent to Sarah (that's as much of a compliment as I am physically capable of paying Gates), and we saw that years and years later Elizabeth was an involved stepmother to Rachel. I like that the show consistently promoted the importance of emotional bonds, even when there was less of a biological one.

Aurora Cormier · 03-05-2014, 05:18 PM

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This is exactly the way that I feel now that I have revisited the Tatiana storylines so many times. As well-intentioned as Carol was, there is no question that she rushed into the whole adoption idea. I think, because of her suicide attempt, Tatiana represented an opportunity for Carol to smooth over her own scars and prove to the world, "Hey, look! I have a kid! I'm okay now! So you can all stop asking me how the hell I am!" Maybe that is harsh, and I know she was very taken with Tatiana, but Carol had so much growth and maturing to do of her own (I mean, less than a season later she was living in a house without a roof) so I understand that the whole Tatiana storyline had to play out the way that it did. If it had gone a different way and Carol had been able to keep her, I think it would have been a problematic burden of a storyline in the long run.

ITA with everything

I don't think it's harsh to say that she had a lot of growing up to do. I mean, she didn't even love the man she was going to MARRY, ffs, and she wanted to jump into starting a family he did NOT plan OR want to have. It was ALL wrong, the whole thing.

And you think about how fragile Carol still was back then...can you imagine what seeing that little girl die would have done to her, emotionally??

It's easy to hate Tag for being against the adoptive (cause well, we'd hate him just for existing) and swoon over Doug's support, but we gotta be realistic.

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I was far more disappointed that Susan did not get to keep custody of Susie. Because of how different the circumstances were from Carol/Tatiana, I think it would have been fascinating to see (had Sherry stayed) a young doctor at the beginning of her career juggle single motherhood. Susan could have been played as such an interesting contrast to Mark, who barely had any involvement with his daughter as time went on, and I only wish we had seen a custody situation where Chloe was never allowed to take care of Susie again. I mean, Susan lived with them in what sounded like perfect harmony in Phoenix for 5 years, then moved back to Chicago, and within a couple of months Chloe has gone off the deep end again. Just UGHHHHHH, CHLOE!!!! I will always be disappointed that Sherry's leaving negated the possibility of such a rich storyline in subsequent seasons.

I KNOW. And I don't remember what happened after the Thrd Watch crossover, did we ever hear about Chloe or Susie ever again?? I mean, I don't care about Chloe, but was Susie still gonna live with her after that??

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I liked Jeanie's adoption of Carlos. I never got particularly invested in the storyline, and I thought that the whole Jeanie/Reggie 'love story' was too rushed, but on paper alone it was great to see ER show that a HIV-positive woman could still find fulfilment and richness in her life, both professionally and personally. Jeanie had also gone through such a tremendous period in the years since her diagnosis, and her return in Season 14 proved that she became such a valuable and positive influence for the HIV community. It was clear from that one episode appearance that she made a great mother to Carlos, and surely raised him to see that HIV/AIDS was not the sum-total of his identity.

Like you, I wasn't that interested, but that was mostly because Jeanie was never a favorite of mine. I still found it beautiful, though, that after the drama of finding out about her disease and learning how to deal with it at her workplace (everything very well written and played, btw), the writers were able to move on and show that her life wasn't all about her disease, it was SO much more than that

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All in all, I think ER did a good job in showing the importance and value of adoptive and/or makeshift families. Kerry and Peter went to court to fight for the right to raise their sons, even when there was no biological link. Gates became a solid parent to Sarah (that's as much of a compliment as I am physically capable of paying Gates), and we saw that years and years later Elizabeth was an involved stepmother to Rachel. I like that the show consistently promoted the importance of emotional bonds, even when there was less of a biological one.

I KNOW

All of this was SO beautiful to see, I was specially moved to see Elizabeth and Rachel still in each other's lives long after Mark was gone, and to think how much of an influence Elizabeth must've been to her when she became a doctor

I'm Not Dead · 03-06-2014, 02:40 AM

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It's easy to hate Tag for being against the adoptive (cause well, we'd hate him just for existing)

True. He was a lost cause for us.

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I don't remember what happened after the Thrd Watch crossover, did we ever hear about Chloe or Susie ever again??

Briefly, at the start of The Letter. This is from the ER Headquarters recap:

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She is telling him that Chloe has been up in Elmira, New York. She has been there for the past two weeks and it showed up on her ex-husband's telephone bill. Joe told her that he was driving up there. Susan thinks that she might need to go too. Suzy needs to be in school. Susan is worried that Chloe will lose Suzy again and that this time they might not be as lucky at finding her. Carter tells her that she can have her declared an unfit mother, but Susan worries about Joe getting custody of her.

And Susie/Chloe were never talked about again...

Aurora Cormier · 03-06-2014, 06:10 PM

Wow, I don't remember that at all, and I really didn't remember that happened on The Letter

hairfullofspoilers · 03-06-2014, 06:15 PM

I hate that crossover. If they would have done it so that Susan could have gotten custody of Susie I would have been fine with it, but to leave us hanging like that drives me insane

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And Susie/Chloe were never talked about again...

Susan mentions buying Susie a gift in the following season, but I think that's it

Aurora Cormier · 03-06-2014, 06:39 PM

I like the crossover episode because I'm a Third Watch fan, but they could've done the crossover anyway, anytime, without having to bring Chloe/Susie back. I wish they hadn't brought them back just to show more of the same, you know

Again, they had a chance to write something great for Susan and missed it, only this time she was STAYING on the show

AndiKae · 03-07-2014, 02:01 AM

I'm sorry... I've had a few problems with my internet connection and now there are double posts. Sorry...

AndiKae · 03-07-2014, 02:16 AM

Sorry again

AndiKae · 03-07-2014, 02:21 AM

Well, it's difficult. But I think that the crossover episode was made in a special way for Susan. The episode was focused on Susan, and that was a great pleasure for me as a Susan fan.

It's just like "Take These Broken Wings" a special episode in a different way. But I have to agree that they have could done more in the aftermath. For me personally it felt like it was just a dream or something that happend only in my imagination

I thought the whole time what will happen next? And there was nothing anymore... Let's say the episode was great but also a little bit strange...

ERussia · 03-07-2014, 02:49 PM

What about Jing-Mei story?It was a story about adoption.Just the other way around.
I don't think it was in Jing-Mei charecter to gave a baby for adoption...

Aurora Cormier · 03-07-2014, 03:44 PM

Oh that's true, I totally forgot about that one! That's how interested I've always been in Jing Mei

Despite my poor memory, I thought that was really well done, showing the other side of the adoption. We often see only the struggle of the adoptive parents, but we rarely think of how hard it may have been for the parent who gave the child away. There's a scene in this episode, where you see Jing-Mei in the room, and the adoptive parents with the baby in the other room, and there's this window between them. And then the blinds are closed between them, and I thought that was such a powerful, symbolic moment of their separation

I'm Not Dead · 03-09-2014, 06:41 AM

What I found most affecting was that scene in Season 10 between Carter and Chen when Carter is trying to pick out nursery room themes and asks Chen, "If you had a baby…"

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Chen: Sometimes I forget about him myself. Actually, I think that's when I feel the worst, when I realise that I haven't thought about him in a week or so. You know, ever since my Mom died and my Dad got sick, I've been thinking about him a lot. You know, when my Dad goes I'm not gonna have anyone else. No aunts, cousins, nothing.

Carter: Have you ever gone to see him?

Chen: [shakes head]

Carter: Maybe you should.

Chen: Maybe I should have kept him. He is three years old now.

I like this scene because in so many shows/movies, the birth mother is told at the time "You might regret this in years to come" but then she gives the baby away and seems happy to have helped the childless couple, and that's that. Here, we were seeing several years later how Chen's perspective on the whole adoption situation had been affected by all the other changes and traumas that had happened in her life.

ERussia · 03-09-2014, 08:36 AM

It was well done,but somehow i don't feel it was a good story for Chen.Maybe for someone else,but i really can't think of any....Lol.
Speaking about crossover story i think the whole thing was to promote Third Watch and that's it.The story was well done but the fact that Susan didn't want to take rights over Susie is really strange and sort of stupid.But,you know what?Susan was not the same when she came back.I mean even during helicopter crash she was like "okay Chuck is dead".Maybe she just didn't care about it that much anymore?

Aurora Cormier · 03-09-2014, 07:12 PM

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I like this scene because in so many shows/movies, the birth mother is told at the time "You might regret this in years to come" but then she gives the baby away and seems happy to have helped the childless couple, and that's that. Here, we were seeing several years later how Chen's perspective on the whole adoption situation had been affected by all the other changes and traumas that had happened in her life.

I didn't remember this scene until you posted the quotes. I like that they showed that other side of giving up a baby, and that they actually didn't forget that part of Chen's story.


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