a little chaos

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April7739

Thanks, Becks! I totally spaced starting up a thread!

a little chaos

Just watched the episode, this season is shaping up to be AMAZING!

Not gonna go into detail yet cause I'm still reeling, what I will say real quick is this.

1. QUALITY BELLARKE CONTENT this season! top notch
2. Bellamy loves a dramatic entrance!
3. Octavia is the worst.
4. I like Zeke, hate the rest of his group.
5. Indra was a surprise MVP of this ep.

destroyer of worlds

TFTNT!

Solid episode though I wish that some stories were given more time, it felt a bit rushed.

So many reunions, but I have one clear favourite.

a little chaos

When I was watching I was thinking this episode will be remembered as “The one with all the reunions”

April7739

I loved the episode! Loving this whole season!

Here’s how I’d rank them so far:

5x03
5x04
5x01
5x02

destroyer of worlds

This season has really fired on all cylinders. I have to admit that I wasn't too impressed with the episodes after 4X01 ... but this season has been so strong, going in. More please!

Basically yes. Though I wish that they were all longer before **** hit the fan.

I just cannot deal with Octavia being a brat right now though. SMH.

April7739

Just posting here all the thoughts I posted on the other board:


Okay, so I have a lot to say about this episode, and much of it centers on Octavia. And I’ll warn you guys right now that my thoughts here are not particularly flattering towards Octavia right now. She’s taken a tumble on my favorites list, as I feared but anticipated she would this season. But as long as I’m not Finndifferent about her, I guess that’s something.

But let me start with my favorite aspects of this episode.


Bellamy: Oh, I’m so proud of my man! He really has learned from his past mistakes and is trying to do things differently. A Bellamy who wants to peacefully co-exist? Who would have imagined that in season one? This is the very definition of character development, and it feels so earned. Props to Bob for tackling this new Bellamy but still making him recognizable as OUR Bellamy, too. Bellamy's always been smart, but that's gotten overshadowed because he's been so impulsive and so emotional. I like getting to see his skills and intelligence on full display.

He was pretty much a boss negotiating with Eligius. He did what needed to be done and what no one else was capable of doing in that moment, and I was really proud of him. Loved the symbolism of him descending into that bunker. He’s not a straight-up hero and never will be, but this is two episodes in a row where the heroic aspects of his character (which have always been there) really got to shine, and that was great to see. I'd say this is the second episode in the row where he'd be the MVP! He'll probably screw something up later this season, because he's so perfectly imperfect. Just a great character, honestly.


Clarke: Clarke was actually quiet for the majority of this episode, but that just makes sense given she’s spent so much time in isolation with one other person. She’s observing, taking things in, readjusting. She looks so happy to see her people again, but I do feel for her because her happy life in Eden will never be the same. I loved that she asked Bellamy about Madi right away, because it shows how good of a caretaker she is and how much she loves that girl.

I also want to paraphrase something I posted to Twitter that has gained a little bit of traction: I really appreciate that this episode (and 5x03, to be honest) gave us moments where Clarke looked vulnerable, looked fragile. Because it’s not realistic for someone to be strong all the time. Sometimes we all just need someone to hold us with the silent reassurance that everything will be okay.

And with that said . . .


THE BELLARKE REUNION! Oh my gosh, where do I even begin with how tender, soft, and beautiful this scene was? It might actually be my new favorite Bellarke scene. I’m not sure. But it’s definitely in the top 5 somewhere, along with “She is.” Everything about this scene was pivotal, and I’m sure that everyone involved—writers, director, Bob/Eliza—knew it as they were creating it. Their separation was the emotional cliffhanger of season 4, after all, so their reunion has to pack such an emotional punch, and it did! I cried the moment he ran to her and scooped her up into his arms. The way they looked at each other as though they couldn’t believe they were real, the way they held each other . . . not to mention the symbolic shot of that open door framing the two of them sitting so close together, unwilling to let go of each other yet. And that shot of his hand on her back. So sensual, so intimate. It’s definitely the most intimate Bellarke hug we’ve ever gotten, and I thought the moment was just really beautiful. Yes, Bellamy is home now, Clarke, but home isn’t a place. It’s a connection. It’s the connection between the two of you.

It’s like, Echo who? I know I’ll have to deal with it in later episodes this season, but right now, I’m enjoying my Bellarke high.


As for the other reunions . . .

Bellamy/Miller: Brief as it was, it was probably my second favorite face-to-face reunion, because I loved Bellamy’s smile here, and having him see the gun and immediately grow concerned was a nice dramatic touch. Plus, did I hear it right that Miller thanked him? About damn time. Hardly anyone ever thanks Bellamy.


Clarke/Raven/Murphy: If we’re counting non face-to-face reunions, then this is my second favorite. Again, like the Bellarke reunion, such a soft moment. (Side note: I love how happy both Bellamy and Clarke looked in this scene.) Lindsey did a great job of conveying Raven’s surprise, relief, and gratitude, and Murphy’s little smirk and cockroach line was just everything. I also loved that Raven thanked Clarke for saving their lives.


Clarke/Abby: You guys know that, even though this is a mother/daughter dynamic, it’s not one I’ve ever been truly drawn to or emotionally affected by. So it was nice to see them reunite, but it wasn’t, like, a standout moment of the episode to me.


Clarke . . . Kane? Okay, would have preferred Bellamy/Kane, but whatever.


Bellamy/Octavia: Well, I’m going to have a lot more thoughts to say about this later, so for now I’ll keep it focused on the actual reunion moment. That moment was great. I loved the hug. I loved how glad they were to see each other. But obviously it didn’t last long, and I’m glad it didn’t, because I didn’t want Bellamy to be so blinded by his happiness upon seeing his sister that he wouldn’t allow himself to see the horror that she’d been presiding over.

And just a quick little note about their conversation in that little café or whatever . . . I love that Octavia looked like a child who’d been caught doing something wrong by her dad. Great non-verbal acting from Marie in that moment.


Clarke/Octavia: Awkward and tense, setting up what I’m sure will be an awkward and tense dynamic this season. But really, a hug would have felt a little strange for them. They’ve never been close.


Now back to the characters . . .

Kane: Oh my god, give Henry Ian Kusick all the awards for that opening scene alone. I could feel his terror and, most of all, his anguish at having to fight for his life and kill someone in there. Kane has worked so hard to become a better person since he landed on the ground. And not only did he work hard, but he actually succeeded. I felt so bad for him having to reach inside himself and find that darkness again to do what needed to be done in order to survive. I can’t believe I didn’t figure out that he was taking the fall for something Abby had done.

I am SO FREAKING PROUD of Kane for standing up for what he thought was right. He knows the difference between vengeance and justice, and he’s been a bystander, sitting back and watching their lives in the bunker disintegrate into this. It’s horrifying, and he’s one of the few people, it seems, who’s willing to step up and say it’s horrifying rather than just going along with it.


Abby: Okay, so even though she’s never been one of the characters I’m most interested in, I do like her and Kane’s relationship, and Paige and Ian were heartbreaking in their scenes together. I think Abby’s addiction storyline is actually a pretty good one. This show is so huge and epic in scale, but that’s a relatable issue for a lot of viewers, and I think Abby’s an interesting choice to take down that path. I don’t blame her at all for hopping on that Eligius ship with Kane. I know Octaiva referred to her (him? them?) as a traitor there, but . . . come on, it’s either that or running for their lives. Can’t say I blame them for choosing to get away from Wonkru.


Indra: I can’t believe I’m finally saying this, but I’m starting to like Indra. Adina is a really talented actress who can convey a lot non-verbally, and she’s done that in both 5x02 and 5x04 this season. She’s loyal to Octavia, but I think that, deep down, she’s really disturbed by Octavia. I think she probably feels some guilt that this is what she’s become. She trained her to be a warrior, but she didn’t train her to be the Red Queen.


Gaia. UGH. Meanwhile, this chick just . . . she just encourages and enables the whole situation. As frustrated as I am with Octavia, I am also very frustrated with Gaia, as I believe she’s been instrumental in building and shaping this cult of personality that now surrounds Octavia. It’s like she’s brainwashed these people into giving them something to worship, even though it’s something horribly violent. I simply cannot stand this character. She adds very little to the show for me, and I really am upset by the way she seems to have helped bring an established character to her lowest low.


Raven/Murphy: Lumping them together since I’m supporting this ship and since all their scenes were together this week. Wow, I really loved their scenes! Like a lot. Lindsey and Richard just have a great chemistry, and the relationship between these two characters has been such a delight. Seriously, seeing them kick a soccer ball around was just amazing. Murphy’s “Nice to meet you, we’re not bad people,” is instantly one of my favorite Murphy quotes, and I love that Bellamy told Raven to keep him away from the radio. I love that Murphy was willing to pull the lever for Raven, because he doesn’t want her to have to sacrifice anymore. It’s really interesting that, of all people, he’s the character who voices out loud what the audience already knows: that Raven Reyes has sacrificed a LOT for the people she loves. They’re in a not so good situation now, though, but I know they’ll get out of it somehow.


Diyoza: I still can’t say I’m a fan of her character yet, but . . . “The hostage taker and his girlfriend.” Girl, I see you, and I like you for that much. Roan and Jaha would be proud of your taste in ships. I don’t think she’s quite as in control of McCreary as she would like to be. McCreary, by the way, is still very one-note, so I don’t have much to say about him.


Shaw: Gonna have to get used to just calling him Shaw now instead of Zeke since apparently now he’s Miles. (Wasn’t that dorky kid in season one also named Miles?) Anyway, I don’t think he’s as squeaky clean as we might be tempted to think he is, because he had to have made some kind of deal with Diyoza and Co. to get to stay alive. But anyway, he’s definitely not a bad guy, and he and Raven have met online now and are already cute, so I’m prepared to support this ship, too, even though I’d love the Murven ship to sail.


Octavia: Oh, here we go. I saved this for the end because I have a LOT to say about her.

I didn’t want this for Octavia. It sucks to see her this way. For the people out there who are still watching her storyline and saying it’s badass, I just truly don’t get it or understand what show they’re watching. It hasn’t been badass for a long time; it’s been tragic for a long time.

And because it’s tragic, I do still have empathy, hell, even sympathy, for her. I mean, this was a girl who was even younger than Clarke, and she was thrust into this leadership position she never asked for. And she’d never been a leader before. And she had more people to care for than Bellamy and Clarke did, and she had more difficult circumstances. (Let’s face it, once Clarke found Eden and found Madi, things got a lot better for her. And Bellamy and SpaceKru definitely had the best time of it. Sure, the food sucked, but space was the place to be.) So I do acknowledge that Octavia really got the short end of the stick with this bunker. But that’s life. Neither Clarke nor Bellamy (nor other leaders on the show like Kane or Lexa or even Jaha) asked for the burdens that were placed upon them when it came to making decisions for their people. What matters is how they handle those burdens. Octavia had to reduce population, and she did. And I’m still thinking that Dark Year is eating people. Logically, they did what needed to be done. But like Kane said, she’s lost herself in the process. She’s a shell of the person she used to be. I know some people want to point out how many people she's kept alive, and I do acknowledge that she kept 814 people alive. But if the show is going to continually remind the audience of how many people have died because of Clarke and Bellamy, then I hope they don't let Octavia off the hook with this. I do like that she said that number so quickly, as it gave my Jaha vibes like with the culling.

Here's the thing: Wonkru has become a cult, a cult solely devoted to following Octavia. And that is scary. Please tell me how this is any different than a country like North Korea, where their dictator is treated as a god and obeyed at all costs. That country has public executions to keep their citizens in line. So does Wonkru. One person should NOT have this much power. I was critical of the commander system for this, and I’m critical of Wonkru for it. The reality is . . . Wonkru was a great and noble idea in theory. But it wasn’t well thought-through, and there was no time to think it through. So Octavia got tossed into this, and I don’t think she was prepared for everything. The irony is, she’s taken on some of Jaha’s characteristics, which is just head-spinning to think about.

I don’t get the sense that Octavia is very opposed to going to war with Eligius. In a way, I think she might be looking forward to it. She wants to fight. Fighting and violence having always been a big part of who she is, but it’s almost as if it’s the majority of who she is now. Again . . . kind of scary.

Something else I definitely want to discuss about Octavia . . . and please don’t take this as an attack on your opinion, Paula. It’s just that something you said got me to thinking (as is often the case with your posts on Octavia ).

Okay, I understand that her nearly killing Kane would have been a much different scene if it was just some random character we had no investment in. (This was the case with the 4x02 killing scene, which I also thought was more dark and tragic than badass, but ultimately, it’s not like we grieve for any of those characters she killed.) I will whole-heartedly admit that if it were someone other than Kane (excluding Miller, Abby, Jackson, etc.) I would not have had the same vehemently angered reaction I did to it. But the fact of the matter is, it wasn’t someone other than Kane. Marcus Kane was right there, about to be executed by Octavia Blake, and that’s that. She was about to publicly kill someone she’s known for nearly 7 years now, someone who, in 4x06, prevented her from becoming Pike by executing Ilian. Someone who gave her tough love when she was being overly brutal in early season 4. Someone who advised her prior to the conclave. Someone who respected her when she fought Fio, someone who trusted her and worked with her to subvert Pike in early season 3. And let’s not forget, too, that Kane supported Octavia’s decision to share the bunker. Not only did he support it, but he helped enforce it. It was Octavia’s idea, sure, but she didn’t decide which Skaikru members would get a spot in there. Kane shouldered that burden, just like he’ll now have to shoulder the burden of killing a man in that arena, all so that he could live. In short, Kane has done a LOT for Octavia and BECAUSE OF Octavia. He truly cares for her. At one point, she cared for him. Does she still? Perhaps deep down. It didn’t seem like she wanted him to take the fall for Abby. But, I mean, if the alternative is having Abby fight in there herself, that’s not any better in Kane’s eyes.

I just . . . I don’t think I can sit here and justify the scene by saying it would be different if it were someone else in there, even though it WOULD be different. To compare to Bellamy’s storyline in season 3 . . . sure, it would have been different if Lincoln had been some random grounder or Skaikru member caught in the crossfire. But he wasn’t. He was Lincoln. So it’s completely fair for people to accuse Bellamy of betraying Lincoln and betraying Octavia by extension there. Now, I still take issue with anyone saying he killed Lincoln, because he tried to help. In contrast, Octavia was literally going to kill Kane herself. It’s just . . . to me, it’s inexcusable on a moral level. This doesn’t mean I’ve completely given up on Octavia. But my perception of her is very damaged right now, in large part due to this particular decision she was about to make.


Blake Siblings:

It really doesn’t help that she lashed out and blamed her brother in the last scene, either, let’s be honest. I think some people in the fandom (a.k.a. Twitter people) are more upset about that than the Kane thing, because they stan Bellamy pretty hard. And I do, too, realistically, but I’m MORE upset about the Kane fiasco. But I’m upset about this, too. Bellamy was literally the only person making any progress with Eligius. Mere (minutes? hours?) after landing back on earth, he single-handedly negotiates a deal that not only saves Clarke but also gets everyone out of that god-awful bunker. He saves Clarke, saves Octavia and her Wonkru . . . and he handled that situation really well and very intelligently. It wasn’t his fault that the deal ended up falling through. Eligius broke their word. Could have happened to anyone. And Octavia’s antagonism didn’t help the situation, to be honest. It breaks my heart that one of the first things she does after seeing her brother is to be cruel to him. This has become quite the pattern with Octavia, and it’s really sad to see, because she has a brother who will do (and in fact has done) anything and everything for her.

Like I said, I’m not giving up on Octavia yet, but I swear, if she does or tries to do anything that will harm her brother, she’s going to cross a line she can’t come back from for me.

On the bright side, their reunion embrace did offer us a glimmer of hope that perhaps Octavia isn’t as cold and unfeeling as she acts. It’s clear that, deep down, there is still a human in there, as we saw it come out when she laid eyes on her brother. It was sweet, for a moment, until it wasn’t when Bellamy looked around and realized what had become of that place and what had become of his sister.

I don’t take issue with Bellamy asking Octavia about the fighting pit. Was it a little judgmental? Sure. But when you love someone and care about someone the way he loves and cares for Octavia, you owe it to that person to be honest, to call them out on their mistakes. And Bellamy doesn’t know the full story yet, but he doesn’t have to. Regardless of the circumstances, for him, seeing his little sister become so dark is just wrong, as it should be. He’s her big brother/father figure. He should never be okay with her becoming someone like this. He should always want better for her, and I’m glad he still does.


Overall thoughts: This was a great episode, just a notch behind 5x03 in terms of my favorites this season. It was fast-paced but still allowed time for some great, softer moments between characters with all those reunions (the best of which was, IMO, clearly the Bellarke reunion). I’m frustrated with Octavia, but at least she was thought-provoking. I know there is a lot of Eligius stuff I didn’t talk about here (What do they need a cure for? What’s with Eligius III?) and I’m sure that stuff will come up and will be interesting, but I’m always more interested in our established characters and their storylines.


Are you Wonkru, or the enemy of Wonkru? I feel like I’m the enemy of Wonkru right now.


Anyone have any changes on their favorites list? I did. Mine is now as follows:

1. Bellamy
2. Murphy
3. Clarke
4. Raven
5. Kane
6. Jasper
7. Harper
8. Miller
9. Octavia (she was at #6 prior to this, and I worry she’ll fall further before she potentially and hopefully rebounds)
10. Lincoln

a little chaos

Great read as always, April you know I agree wholeheartedly on the Octavia/Blake sibling stuff

I see a lot on Twitter too, I like how Bellamy stans have started the "It's all Bellamy's fault" joke, the writers that have recently left, someone said "It's your fault, Bellamy" with a photo of Octavia, this got me

My list after 5x04:

1. Clarke
2. Bellamy
3. Lexa
4. Murphy
5. Echo
6. Roan
7. Raven
8. Niylah
9. Octavia
10. Aden



These 10 I actually love. The rest I am indifferent too.

Even though I find Octavia really problematic of late, I still care for and love her as a character, and I'll always have that attachment, but you also go through stages of being dissapointed by those characters actions.

April7739

We’ve got her in the same slot.

destroyer of worlds

My order based on this episode did change.

1. Bellamy
2. Clarke
3. Raven
4. Monty
5. Kane
6. Shaw
7. Harper
8. Lincoln
9. Kane
10. Emori

Octavia's not in my top 10, similar to before. And I doubt that she'll ever be there TBH.

April7739

Bellamy and Clarke passed Raven for you, huh?

wickedrum

marvellous reunions!