[WeBuiltThePyramids]

I can't say I want him to have another girlfriend/wife, because it's too soon. But if it happens, I'd want it to be someone he becomes friends with over a period of seasons and doesn't have romantic interest in at first, and nothing on her end at first either, and after a while, they both realize something else has happened between them. I don't want it to be like him and Megan where everything was so fast - I loved that for them, but I don't want that again.

[kindness is free]

Sylvester is wonderful character and I don't know all that happened yet but I will get there!

[FauxDetective]

It was so heartbreaking seeing Sly tear up while Captain Decker was recording the message to his wife. He was obviously thinking about Megan and knew exactly how the man's wife was going to feel.

Loved his "I don't want to play" during the snowball fight.

[FoxPhile]

Originally Posted by FauxDetective (View Post) It was so heartbreaking seeing Sly tear up while Captain Decker was recording the message to his wife. He was obviously thinking about Megan and knew exactly how the man's wife was going to feel. Loved his "I don't want to play" during the snowball fight.

Me too! The way he tried to escape from it all by crawling into the tent.

I also liked how he was so obviously worried about his friends in the blizzard. As strong as Sly is being, it's easily to forget that he's also quite fragile. I think he realizes that another loss might not be something he could endure right now.

[WeBuiltThePyramids]

Originally Posted by FauxDetective (View Post) It was so heartbreaking seeing Sly tear up while Captain Decker was recording the message to his wife. He was obviously thinking about Megan and knew exactly how the man's wife was going to feel.

That really, really got to me.

[FauxDetective]

I was a little surprised to learn that Sly's main problem with his father was that Kenneth never connected to him because he wasn't the son he wanted and that essentially he was an absentee father. Based on statements Sly made in earlier episodes and even his fearful reaction at the beginning of Sun of a Gun, I always assumed his father was more overtly abusive. Not that failing to accept and be there for his son isn't awful, but for someone as risk-averse as Sylvester to make the decision to leave home and be on his own as a teenager, I would have thought his childhood was even worse.

[WeBuiltThePyramids]

Originally Posted by FauxDetective (View Post) I was a little surprised to learn that Sly's main problem with his father was that Kenneth never connected to him because he wasn't the son he wanted and that essentially he was an absentee father. Based on statements Sly made in earlier episodes and even his fearful reaction at the beginning of Sun of a Gun, I always assumed his father was more overtly abusive. Not that failing to accept and be there for his son isn't awful, but for someone as risk-averse as Sylvester to make the decision to leave home and be on his own as a teenager, I would have thought his childhood was even worse.

Well all of that is emotional abuse. Which can be just as bad as physical.

[FoxPhile]

Originally Posted by FauxDetective (View Post) I was a little surprised to learn that Sly's main problem with his father was that Kenneth never connected to him because he wasn't the son he wanted and that essentially he was an absentee father. Based on statements Sly made in earlier episodes and even his fearful reaction at the beginning of Sun of a Gun, I always assumed his father was more overtly abusive. Not that failing to accept and be there for his son isn't awful, but for someone as risk-averse as Sylvester to make the decision to leave home and be on his own as a teenager, I would have thought his childhood was even worse.

I got the impression that Kenneth was also overbearing and demanding when he was around. At the beginning of the episode he says something like "Better hit the head, Sylvester - once we get started I won't stop for anything." And Sylvester says some thing like "Just like old times."

It's a bit of a stereotype, but it's also true (I'm an Army brat myself). Military fathers who are away a lot often treat their kids like they treat their troops. Toe the line or you get KP; stand at attention anytime he is talking to you; anything he tells you to do should be considered an order and there is no questioning orders. In a situation where Kenneth was required to be away from home a lot, if he has a son who is difficult to connect with anyway, his absences won't make it any easier.

I grew up with one of those army fathers, although since I was a girl, he was a lot easier on me than on my brother. I can be sympathetic of Kenneth because I came to understand that the way my dad treated us wasn't because he didn't love us - it was because he didn't know us. I was also able to realize that if he was away a lot - it wasn't because he wanted to be. As long as he was in the army, he really had no choice, and you can't just leave the army anytime you want to.

[WeBuiltThePyramids]

Yeah sorry, I have zero sympathy for Kenneth at all. He spent the time he did have with his son belittling him and not making an effort to connect with him and he exacerbated Sly's anxious tendencies to the point where even ten years later and surrounded by the support of his Scorpion family he basically had a breakdown at the idea of even seeing his father again. Kenneth is easily the least redeemable character on the show for me, I got zero feelings over his scenes with Sly, and he didn't do near enough to even begin to make up for the fact that he drove his own son out of the house in his mid teens.

[FauxDetective]

Originally Posted by WeBuiltThePyramids (View Post) Well all of that is emotional abuse. Which can be just as bad as physical.

Oh, I agree completely and am in no way defending Kenneth (I didn't like him or have any sympathy for him either), but my problem with this episode was that they didn't sell me on the idea that he was horrible enough to cause a fourteen year old to leave home with no viable means to support himself. If Kenneth was gone all the time, as they implied, what did Sly have to gain by leaving home?

I guess I just felt like the writers were simultaneously trying to make him both the bad guy that previous episodes made him out to be as well as a redeemable character and ultimately, at least for me, weren't successful at either one.

[FoxPhile]

They absolutely did not do a credible job of presenting Kenneth, which is part of why I'm reserving judgement. From what he did say, it seems he wanted to connect with Sly - he just wasn't successful at it, and perhaps he went about it in all the wrong ways. But that doesn't mean he didn't try. Obviously, something occurred that caused Sly to be so averse to seeing him, but it's possible that was not entirely Kenneth's doing. We just don't know all the factors that contributed.

I didn't particularly like the character - but a lot of that has more to do with how he was presented. I would actually like to have him come on again - but in a way that explores the character and Sly's family background better.

[WeBuiltThePyramids]

Originally Posted by FauxDetective (View Post) Oh, I agree completely and am in no way defending Kenneth (I didn't like him or have any sympathy for him either), but my problem with this episode was that they didn't sell me on the idea that he was horrible enough to cause a fourteen year old to leave home with no viable means to support himself. If Kenneth was gone all the time, as they implied, what did Sly have to gain by leaving home? I guess I just felt like the writers were simultaneously trying to make him both the bad guy that previous episodes made him out to be as well as a redeemable character and ultimately, at least for me, weren't successful at either one.

I agree wholeheartedly on your second paragraph. On the first, I guess I just have to say it depends - I don't feel comfortable sharing exactly why, but I am not comfortable in my grandparents' home anymore because of my uncle. Even when he is not there, that house is a very distressing place for me. Just thinking about going back there makes me shake and want to cry. So I can see why, if Kenneth made Sylvester feel like crap or constantly berated him, the Dodd house would not be a safe space for Sly even when his dad wasn't home.

I actally don't buy that he tried to connect with him. Sly said as soon as he started showing genius his dad pulled away. There are a lot of things I want to do that I haven't tried to do, and I don't think Kenneth actually tried to connect with Sly at all.

[FauxDetective]

Originally Posted by WeBuiltThePyramids (View Post) I agree wholeheartedly on your second paragraph. On the first, I guess I just have to say it depends - I don't feel comfortable sharing exactly why, but I am not comfortable in my grandparents' home anymore because of my uncle. Even when he is not there, that house is a very distressing place for me. Just thinking about going back there makes me shake and want to cry. So I can see why, if Kenneth made Sylvester feel like crap or constantly berated him, the Dodd house would not be a safe space for Sly even when his dad wasn't home.

Yeah, I can understand that. And I'm sorry to hear your uncle makes you feel that way. I think the episode would have been more successful if we had gotten a clearer picture of Sly's childhood and seen how affected he was by Kenneth's words and actions. Sylvester really only brought up his father's absenteeism, but there must have been more to it than that to make him run away.

Originally Posted by WeBuiltThePyramids (View Post) I actally don't buy that he tried to connect with him. Sly said as soon as he started showing genius his dad pulled away. There are a lot of things I want to do that I haven't tried to do, and I don't think Kenneth actually tried to connect with Sly at all.

Sly is such an open and loving person that I feel like, if his father had made a genuine effort to connect with him, he would have met him halfway.

[WeBuiltThePyramids]

See, I feel like there was, it just wasn't as explicit.

[FauxDetective]

Yeah, I mean we definitely got a hint of it in the scene where Sly reads the file and Kenneth first shows up, but I guess I would have liked a bit more. I actually thought Young Hearts Spark Fire was more effective and satisfying, at least for me, in terms of learning about Sly's backstory.