Fangirl49

Kris isn't going to be. She's my internet wife. Haha.

I do love the points you make about Red. Plus, he has no reason to trust Liz at all. He cares for her. But trust is far from that.

ChakotaysLover

That's why people have mistresses! LOL!

Love and trust are not mutually exclusive. Just because you love someone, in some fashion, that's doesn't automatically mean you have to trust them. Liz has proven that she can never be trusted fully, just in the same way Red has. Trusting them is sure fire way to continued disappointment.

Miranda

^you guys!

You couldn't be more right. Liz thinks she is entitled to everything but she is not. If she would show Red that she can be trusted than maybe, he would tell her more.

Lauren Helen Graham

Ooookay... Marilyn You telling somebody else I love you makes me cry here and thinking about a divorce

Honestly, I don't believe in Red's completely innocence anymore... I really think to some part he really uses Liz and he manipulates her therefore. It's the smaller part of his for sure because on the other side he really loves her and he really wants just the best for her and he would do anything. And still, he isn't the angel here. I'm still sure he isn't telling her because he wants to keep that secret. Period. I think that she has a right to know why her husband died. I couldn't stand him but in the end, he was her husband, the man she loved, the man she chose to have a family with, a life with...

ChakotaysLover

^^

Why would you believe Red was innocent at all? The man is a criminal. He does bad things, kills people. He knows he's the devil. That man doesn't do anything that doesn't benefit him in some way. Liz on the war path, yup, it will factor into some plan Red has. Raymond Reddington has never been interested in redemption. He wants to eliminate the competition. To do that, he'll use whatever, and whoever, he needs to accomplish that.

Frankly, what happened to Liz and Tom is mostly Tom's fault. If he had left well enough alone, he'd still be alive. Red warned him to stop, but the man didn't listen. tom got Nik killed, and those two other people. Red not telling Liz about Tom's shady double dealing, is preserving her memory for the lying con man.

Tom had a wife, and a kid. That should have been enough..... BUT NO! Out of some misguided quest for the TRUTH, which is a joke by the way, because no one can know the complete truth about anything. Tom threw away his life and all for what? Honoring the request of a dead woman....

Yeah.... let Red tell Liz that. Then she is going to call him a liar. Blame him for bringing all of this down on them. Blah blah blah... the same old song and dance crap that she is famous for.


Even if Red trusted Liz implicitly... he wouldn't tell her everything. She over-reacts and get's super judgey. Frankly it's annoying, and from a writers standpoint, that is not character growth.

Lauren Helen Graham

Exactly my point regarding Red... But at the moment, Liz trusts him and I can see the fall out of it and honestly, if he can't be honest with her about what happened with Tom and about the suitcase, it's more than normal for her to be really pissed as soon as she finds out.

And you might think about Tom what you want, he nevertheless was the love of her life and she has a right to know. Simple as that
Besides, yes, mostly Tom's fault. But Red is at fault as well and the person that is dead will never be blamed or face the consequences. He is dead. Red will, full force. That's, on a side note, how it really goes in real life as well

Miranda

I agree. Red is not innocent. Neither is Liz. Nobody in this case is innocent and I think that Red definitly wants to keep some things a secret for Liz. He has been doing so ever since the beginning and I don't think that is going to change. He only tells her what he wants her too know.

So I wonder what he will do to stop Liz from finding out about the suitcase and what he will do if she finds out about it.

Lauren Helen Graham

But I start to question his motives as well... Too much has happened and I don't agree with some things that he did. Maybe I'm getting suspicious because of the Liz/Red relationship and because of how broken it is now.

I'm wondering how far he'll go as well... I guess we'll find out soon.

Miranda

His motives about what exactly? Surrendering to the FBI or his motives concerning Liz?

Lauren Helen Graham

Concerning Liz... I don't know, really. And I somehow don't know what to believe either. He seems so not to care lately. I know, that's said a bit drastic but I really get the impression because yeah, he was a bit concerned but that's it regarding Liz. He is so busy with everything regarding that suitcase, that he didn't even realize what Liz is up to lately? Which dangers she is getting herself into? I loved him as the knight in shining armor, you know...

Fangirl49

I know about the knight in shining armor. I feel the same. And I struggle too with feeling their relationship is not what it was. Liz ruined it for me with the fake death. And because if that I blame her for most of this. If she had never done that I think Red would start learning to trust her. And honestly, if she hadn't done that, Kris, I would probably be more able to See her side in this suitcase mess and not just Reds.

Part of me thinks it's just tv because really how can Red not expect her to find out about the suitcase. It's only logical that she does only on tv would they write it like this where you think you can keep it a secret. It's like the whole plot of TBL. Red staying means Liz is going to learn secrets so logically he should leave but if he does there's no show.

I know Red has given Liz the space she requested but I by no means really think he does not know what she's doing. I think he does. And he's waiting to see if and when she needs help.

ChakotaysLover

Red's motives are entirely self-motivated. It doesn't matter who he's working with. One way or another, Liz going off the rails will benefit him in some way, shape, or form.

Lauren Helen Graham

Tari, that‘s a brilliant thought as well... I never realized that her going a bit over the top might benefit him in any way... Good one, really. If that was true, what could be his motives? Now I‘m intruiged.

I‘m really wondering if he‘s manipulating her in search for the suitcase. He wants to find it and therefore might let her do her thing. But as soon as she‘ll get close, he‘ll make sure that she doesn‘t get anywhere anymore...

Miranda

How would Red benefit from the fact that Liz goes off the rails?

Fangirl49

He will benefit if she finds Garvey..

I can actually live with that thought. But, a few things I will add. I do believe if he thought he could stop her. he would. But he would literally have to tie her up and hold her in one place. At least he asked Cooper to try to talk to her.

Also, I really think he either didn't know who Garvey was when he saw him or he is unable to find him. If he had been able to end this while Liz was in the coma, he would have. I think he was sincere when he told her all his leads had been dead ends.

Although, I must admit it's kind of unreal that Red would be looking for a year and be unable to find anything and Liz starts getting answers at the beginning of her search, but that's tv for you. I mean I imagine Red could have found the same guys that Liz did and got the same info. Honestly, if he did find them, why leave them alive if he doesn't want Liz to learn about the bones..