ScarletCourt

Regbo Girl

Thanks for starting this thread

ScarletCourt

So far, I find that Season 2 is completely different than Season 1 in look and feel. I find it's more male dominated in S2 than in S1 so far. in S1 we were taken on the journey with Mary when she arrives at Court and their gradual immersion into French Court was what was driving the first stories. Even after the mid-season hiatus, Mary and her LIW were the dominant stories. There seemed to be a lot more Mary and LIW driven plots. In S2, the stories thus far seem to be driven more by the men this season. We have first and foremost Francis learning to rule. Then we have Narcisse's vengeance on Mary for killing his son. Add Conde and Bash's new job that doesn't seem to involve the women and it feels less like Reign and more like other shows with male dominated plot lines. At least that's the sense I get after soon to be four episodes. What do you think?

firewall

Thanks for starting this thread, Scarlet.

That's an interesting point you bring up. I didn't really think about it in those terms (female stories vs male stories), but there was a lot more of a focus on romance in s1. I guess those revolved primarily around the female POVs. Once everyone was paired up the stories started to skew more toward the politics and power struggles, but I don't think those stories are any more masculine than they were during the latter half of season 2. Narcisse is basically taking Henry's place as the older male threat. Conde is Bash 2.0-- a male presence to be a foil for Francis and cause Frary angst. And we still have Bash and Leith, who are now part of Francis' posse, the way Mary's LIW were always part of hers.

Overall, is there more testosterone on the show? Yes, definitely. Are the stories more male-centric? I don't think so.

itsmemandy

I think the LIW's stories were more important in S1, we don't see them a lot this season..

ScarletCourt

Agreed that Narcisse now takes Henry's place in the narrative and that Conde is the wedge to drive between Frary, but so far, we've not seen much of the power of Catherine like she used to wield over Nostradamus and she seems to have little influence over Narcisse unlike her influence (albeit small) was over Henry. In S1 we would have seen more of how she knew about Mary's pregnancy before Mary, but now she's just showing up in Frary's bedroom to tell how she figured it out. I guess in S1 there was a lot more female POV than there is now. For instance, in S1 the story of the darkness (though eyeroll-inducing in the end) was centred around Mary at the beginning which evolved to involve Olivia and Rowan, while the new storyline of the riders and their marking of people have not involved any of the women. It hasn't been even talked about with or by the women.


The LIW stories were more important in S1 because we were shown the French Court through their eyes. With the new comers in play, we're now seeing French Court from their eyes.

firewall

True, but I do think this is purposeful because MF are in power now and Catherine has to adapt to her new, less powerful, position as Queen Mother. We are getting less of her POV, but I still feel like she is a force to be reckoned with.

The darkness never really involved Mary, aside from one episode in which she discussed it with the men who were actually going to search for/fight it (and, lbr, that was more about the drama of the lingering triangle, than involving Mary in the darkness sl). Olivia and Rowan were victims and nothing more. Kenna, too, became an almost-victim. I'd say the Darkness was just as much a male story as the current devil rider boringness.

But again, there are definitely more men on the show than ever before, that can't be denied.

ScarletCourt

We have yet to see anything about Scotland this season to the point where I'm wondering aside from Mary asserting that she's her LIW's Queen whether she still has a realm. Mary hasn't received letters, emissaries or done trading in the name of Scotland this season. Whereas in S1, Scotland was at the forefront alongside France. Tonight's episode is no different. The sex journal/Greer and Castleroy wedding aside, tonight's episode was centred on Francis, France and the Protestant/Catholic clashes of the time. At least there was a throwaway line about Protestants taking over in Scotland.

As for the male/female dynamic, this episode with the Francis/Narcisse SL and how Francis deals with the P/C clashes, made even Mary's POV seem secondary.

firewall

Mary's POV was secondary, but it had to be for the story to play out the way the way it did. Mary had to be kept in the dark. It's not the first time it's happened. They tend to rotate POVs. She usually has one, but this is one of the rare occasions when she doesn't have much of one.

I agree about Scotland. It's basically nonexistent now. The good news is that where Mary was always the Queen of Scotland, but we rarely saw her act as Queen, we are seeing her act as Queen in France quite often. She is a ruling Queen, even if it's not in her own country.

Granted, the rule is often secondary to the romantic drama, so we had to see Francis overrule her once again for the sake of the angst, etc.

makeitreign

I agree! I mentioned being worried in the spoiler thread after Ade and Laurie did interviews at the beginning of season 2 saying this was the season of men and ghosts that the ladies would get pushed to the back. And I'm not feeling it. I started watching this show for the ladies and I am so disappointed at their reduced importance on the show, esp Catherine and Kenna. Greer has had the most prominent s/l of the ladies but I feel that her s/l has not received the proper screen time it deserves because we have to deal with Narcisse and Conde every ep. I can handle those guys in small doses but I do not see why they must be prominent in every freakin ep. In season one there were eps where Henry was missing, francis was missing, and even Bash while not missing, was pushed to the background.

ScarletCourt

Yes, Greer's S/L has been dominate so far of the ladies, but that was only because she was the only one of the LIW not to have died, given birth to the king's bastard or married.

ICA that Conde and Narcisse have been dominant in every episode in someway. It was interesting the first couple so that we knew who they were and what motivations they had, but five eps of C and N and I've had enough. Now, N is even Francis's puppet master to the point where he's having to lie to even Mary. Yes, it's serious drama. Yes, it's reasonably well written, but the heart of the matter is it's not the Reign that I came back for week after week last season.

Also, all the SL for the women haven't been matters of state or even women taking charge. They've been generally more frivolous things like talking about sex lives, babies (though heirs are not trivial), even the Nanny haunted SL had us believing at first that it was a man's spirit dominating a woman's body and now it's the story of a man manipulating another man. Where is Scotland in all this? Where is the women (mainly Catherine) scheming to take control in a male dominated environment?

I understand that Reign doesn't necessarily mean Mary's reign but does it have to be mostly Francis's reign? If the whole purpose of rushing through it all in S1 was to get to Francis's reign (relegating Mary into the background to work on having babies), then I will be very upset.

ScarletCourt

Finally, an episode where we have some female POV and what a POV it was! Loved the road trip and what Mary and Catherine discovered. Let's hope that we see more of both Catherine and Mary's POV as the season progresses. Both have been sorely lacking.

Another female POV from this episode was Lola being outcast by her family. Now on her own, she needs money and how does she get it but from Narcisse since after all, woman don't own anything in that day and age.

Hoping this is a turning point to a new trend with more of the women's POVs for this season.

firewall

It was entirely a female-centric episode. Catherine and Mary are such a wonderful team. I enjoyed every moment of their scenes together. And, even though I'm not generally a big Lola fan, I enjoyed her story as well.

The men were nothing more than background, which I don't mind, but it begs the question of why they have such a ridiculously huge cast when they can only manage to write for about 4 or 5 of them?

ScarletCourt

I think it may have gotten out of hand. I thought they had a better intersecting relationship between characters in S1 and so that might explain why it meshed together better. In Henry, he had a relationship with his wife, his mistresses, his sons, his daughter-in-law. In Nosty, they had a healer who interacted with anyone who had illness or injury. With two major new characters, Conde and Narcisse, and until the Locisse/Narla bit started, they didn't seem like they had anything in common with any of the existing characters. If Conde is a cousin, I would have expected Catherine to talk to him, but I don't think she does. We have seen Catherine and Narcisse in conversation but always when they are alone, so there's no interactions with others. The writers seems to have forgotten how interwoven Henry and Nosty was with everyone else and having to establish relationships with two new characters means that some of the old characters get pushed into the background. Case in point, Bash in this episode.

The key to having a large ensemble cast is by having interwoven relationships between the characters. Now it's a bunch of people who don't know one another so they are spending time reforming the interrelationships.

Regbo Girl

One thing I also find strange about this season is what they have done to Bash, he is like a secondary character now. How many lines did he have in this episode? 1? They seem to have replaced him with Condé sometimes