GRIMM Episode Discussion: 4x16, "Heartbreaker" ~ Air Date April 03, 2015
 

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See "The Book of Grimm" thread (Board Guide) OP for a list of previous episode discussions.

24 hours from right now! :yay:

Excited!

Me too! :yay:

Question, why is the title called "Double Date" and I'm so going to watch this episode tonight!

Thanks for noting that, Nici! My mistake .. fixing it now. :P

I'm starting to hate Juliette for the way she treats Nick and Renard! Also, she's becoming such a bitch (I don't know if I'm allowed to say that word in this post) especially if she starts her revenge on Adalind and what I saw in the next week's promo: She wants to have sex with Renard!

Good episode. I think the branding would make the women not so desireable and that would keep any interest away from them, however the way she ended up was also not so pretty. With the branding she could find someone as well if it took away her venom nature. The fellow she ended up with was funny but good. She chose this disfigurement instead of having it forced on her.

I think, as I ramble on here, that the branding just kept people away and did not change her body chemistry as possibly Rosalee's potion did.

I'm glad Nick talked with Hank about Juliette's dilemma.
Her behavior toward Nick is going to give the Juliette haters even more reasons to hate her. I personally do not hate her at this point. I have empathy for her.

I've added the 4x16 Guest stars and the Wesen (Folterseele) in their respective threads. :)

Patty, I agree the branding of the Folterseele was to prevent them ever again being attractive to anyone.
Apparently, both Bella's mother and her grandmother had been raped - and of course, the rapists died immediately.
Evidently there are no males of the species. :look:

The end was cute - she may not be a gorgeous blond now, but at least she ain't poison! ;)
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I was so glad Nick finally told Hank about Juliette! It's not something that can (or should) be kept secret. Loved Hank's reaction - well played, Russell! :D

I think we have to keep reminding ourselves that Juliette is no longer the Juliette we knew. She's being taken over by the most powerful Hexenbiest that ever existed, and it cannot be "tamed."
It is bitter and mean and completely undisciplined. Juliette cannot be held responsible for it. She's been sacrificed because of her love for Nick and MonRosalee.

Nevertheless, the direction of this arc is breaking my heart, largely because it's changing the entire nature of my favorite TV series. :cry:

Oh, and Prince Kenneth is one scary dude. I might suspect he's part Siegbarste .. :eek:

Some people on Twitter

The speculation on Kenneth seems very logical.

I wonder if Royals will see Adalind's baby as something useful--a potential Grimm or a potential hold on Nick--or threatening--what are Hexen-Grimms like? Or Zauber-Grimms? And how are Zauberbeists different from their female relatives, anyway, other than being saner? Can Renard do telekinesis? How limited is he with potions?

It seemed odd that they would know Viktor isn't founding a dynasty, but I suppose even lower-case royals have shown interest in family continuity. Upper-case Royals with Hexenbeists and others to do checkups might know a lot more about where the next generations is--or isn't--coming from. Also, the Royals seem to be less fertile than ordinary humans, given what we know about their amorous proclivities and the high price people will pay for Royal infants. Low fertility and infertility may be wide spread problems for them.
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My guess is that the brand was a sort of magic for this group of Wesen. Or maybe this is head canon. I'm thinking that it didn't just disfigure them. The way they were described, it sounded like they had a natural power beyond their looks that attracted men, whether they wanted to or not (mostly not, by the look of things). While the second guy who was attracted to Bella tried to rape her, the first one seemed to be pretty decent guy. There were signs he was a bit obsessed, but what Rosalee said suggested this was an effect Bella could have on guys. All the photos taken without her knowledge may have been a bit creepy, but he kept it under control and didn't do anything creepy.

My guess, then, is that the brand actually reversed this. Guys who would have been drawn to them or disgusted or even become hostile once the branding happens. I'm imagining a tragic story for the mom where she had a decent guy who loved her but who'd seen her transform without touching her, yet he still accepted her. Then, another man assaulted her, her mother branded her, and the decent guy still cared about her--but the branding created a physical response. He actually became nauseated being around her (or something like that).

I'm guessing that the branding only works this way after they've manifested. I'm also guessing the first time it happens, it may not be fast enough to protect them from an attacker.

Which I guess means I'm supposing Bella's mom was attacked by Bella's father, hid the pregnancy from her mother, met a decent guy who found out about her but still cared, and then her mom found out she was pregnant and branded her.

Because, while the branding is bad, I don't see how it would otherwise guarantee their safety from slime, especially when they seem to attract men without wanting to.

So, what Rosalee did may have disfigured her but it left her free to look for love.

Oh, and I'm guessing this was from a script they bought a while back. 1989 plus 24 adds up to 2013.
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Not sure how I feel about Juliette right now. I see what she's dealing with. The way she got upset that the book didn't help shows that she still wants to go back to her old life. She isn't giving up on them as Nick thinks.

Oh, and Adalind better run if Juliette finds out that's Nick's baby she's carrying. Not like she doesn't have enough reasons, but that one could send her over the edge. I just wonder if she'll care what happens to Nick's child and protect it, no matter what she does to Adalind, or . . . not.

I think the branding was enough to keep men from giving them a second look, much less lusting after them. I need to re-watch the episode, but I got the impression that all their breeding was a result of rape.
I don't think they were like the Musai - irresistible to men; they're just beautiful women who act unattainable and are, therefore, more of a challenge to some men. :look:

I'm sure you're right that it's going to get ugly when Juliette learns Adalind is having Nick's baby. :eek:

First, even though I'm about to make a counter-arguement, let me point out I may be wrong. Not like that's never happened before.

Second, I'm trying to fill in what I see as gaps in the story. I may be over-thinking. It may also be that the script was trimmed. If it was written in 2013 (as the script suggests--unless We just can't do math), that would have been before there was the subplot about Renard's family and Juliette. It may be that there was a longer version of the script at one point that filled in these gaps in a different way than how I'm trying to do it.

Also, I'm not passionate about this. If the writer read this and said, "That isn't even close to what I was thinking," my life would go on.

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This episode has a lot of potential triggers, so I'm hoping I don't sound too callous as I try to summarize.

If the branding was an attempt to protect the women from sexual assault, there were several problems. First, it was done after an attack had taken place. If it was meant to protect them, it seems it should have been done before. Second, unfortunately, being ugly or disfigured isn't a protection against sexual assault. Some attackers find it easier to dehumanize or devalue a homely girl. Some would see a disfigured, socially isolated woman and see an easier victim. More calculating attackers might see a victim who could be more easily discredited if she came forward because they'd expect people to not to believe anyone would sexually assault someone who looked like that.

In fact, the ending of the episode was that she could still find someone who would be attracted to her and find love despite being disfigured. Of course, this is the problem at the other end of the scale. There's still a danger to decent guys who might be attracted to a person despite her appearance.

On the attraction issue, I'm not thinking they're like Musai. I'm imagining a sort of heightened appeal, but that the neither of the men who were attracted to her were acting far outside their normal range of behavior. The creepiest the apparently decent guy got was taking a lot of photos of a member of his cycling group when she was with them. But, he didn't seem to cross any proper boundaries when he interacted with her. Yes, he stayed when she asked him to leave and touched her when she told him not to, but it was after she'd had a bike accident and was showing signs of being in real pain.

In the same way, I think the guy who tried to assault her wasn't doing anything that he wouldn't have done to a non-Wesen woman he decided he was attracted to who had told him to get lost.

So, I think there is an attraction factor but not one that makes it so the men aren't responsible for their actions.

Also, on the issue of Wesen genetics, these may be like the Naiads who had to find lovers outside their kind but who still bred true--or they might have had a 50-50 chance of having a "normal" child and that they only branded a daughter who transformed.

Kelaine, I do love the way you examine every facet and detail and then flesh out a story! :)

You may be right that the Folterseele secrete a pheromone that makes them more irresistible. Rosalee only mentioned their beauty, but she may not know about other factors.
As she said, Folterseele are very rare - and with good reason! :lol:
Then of course, just being branded wouldn't guarantee they would never be approached or molested again; but it would likely reduce the odds.
The jerk guy who attacked Bella deserved what he got; and really, the stalker type who was taking pictures of her was pretty creepy, too. :look:

I think the reason I don't label him as really creepy is that we found out about all the pictures after he died. In his scenes at the beginning, they played him fairly sympathetically. I think that was a deliberate choice to bring out the shock value of his death. The audience doesn't want something bad happening to him anymore than Bella does.

The photos start to reverse that but they also serve a plot purpose of pointing Nick and Hank towards the right suspect. So, I have mixed feelings. Was that a deliberate element to change how the viewers felt about the dead man and to push us to feel more sympathetic to Bella? Or was it just something to push the plot along whose impact on how we viewed the character wasn't fully thought out?

I'm glad the way I meander is helpful :)

Helpful AND thought-provoking, kiddo! :D

It is. :)

Time to unstick this thread and put up the new one for 4x17, "Hibernaculum."

Caught up an interesting epsiode case wise a girl who poisons anyone attracted to her ok ..

Nick and juilette so scary im annoyed only cause i love them so but i wouldn't be chasing juilette everywhere.. her embracing her innee beast is a great thing but shes so muxh more meaner but as they said shes not Juliette anymore