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RULES:
No fighting please, only healthy discussions.
No bashing of the actors.

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Hope this is a good episode.

eternalfate

HalcyonDays

I'm torn, torn..

Why must the show write this: "It is through your eyes that I see myself most clearly."

I love this, but I hate this, because the show is just messing with me. Yet, speaks the absolute truth.

However...dammit Henry, you sure did articulate everything that the majority SH viewer has stated regarding Katrina...Ha! I could almost root for you now. And man, show, you have to have Katrina communicating in a witchy/creative way (like season 1) and fail spectacularly at it?? I just don't understand what they are doing with Katrina. Makes no sense.

And you know what - I feel for Abraham, I really do. He even yelled to Ichabod "why do you not want my redemption?" I totally agree. If Henry deserves it, Abraham does. I like him and want to see redemption for him. He was an idiot for letting his love of Katrina cloud his judgement, but so is Ichabod, as we have seen. Abraham needs to be saved.

But you know what, good episode. Loved the swordplay, loved the conflict, loved the interactions. Almost felt season 1. I want to see more Abraham + Ichabod interactions. They are awesome together!

ChakotaysLover

Watching it now and them playing the game was so cute!! "Thank you colonial myth buster." LMAO!

Blackhoney

Was I the only one hoping Abraham would kill Ichabod?
Seriously, Ichabod's character is unredeemable to me.

The sword fight, seriously? The Apocalypse is about two men fighting over some p#$%sy.
I can't with this show.

IceKat055

Am I the only one who laughs every time they direct Abbie to whip a silly little gun out against a walking Headless dead man or whatever big bad of the week they're up against?

TheCheshireKitten

I just watched the episode this morning.

Gotta get this out of the way first: Abbie should've been the one to retrieve the sword. It was her ancestor that had been turned to stone, her mother's journal that led them there, and she was the one on the sure and "clear" path they reiterated through out the episode.

Abbie should've been the one to pull that sword out. I'm becoming very, very annoyed by the fact that, even though the characters should be equal as they are both witnesses, they give moments like this one to Ichabod, when it should rightfully belong to Abbie. It's like Ichabod is the #1 Witness. He was just born earlier. Abbie's Witness status is equal to his. Show it.

Katrina's mirror communication is what led Henry to discovering Abbie & Ichabod's search for the swords. What use has she been spying on Team Evil?

I've been waiting for Neil Jackson to have something to do other than a briefly sneer at Henry and pine over Katrina, so seeing Abraham in flashbacks with Ichabod, and then seeing them fight in the present hit the spot for me.

I that they were friends before they came to the colonies. They were friends longer than I thought, and that makes me happy because their connection is one of the more compelling ones in the show. For me, it's Ichabbie's partnership, Abbie and Jenny's sister relationship, and Ichabod and Abraham's(Headless) connection that are the most compelling relationships. They are the ones I watch for.

I loved seeing how close Abraham and Ichabod were in the flashback, and learning that it was Abraham that convinced Ichabod to leave England. I want more flashbacks to their friendship! I enjoyed the depth it added to Abraham's character and his history with Ichabod. I feel like, after seeing this episode, that maybe Katrina is more the "face" that Abraham has placed on his feelings towards Ichabod and what he sees as the betrayal of their friendship, and that it could go a lot deeper than him losing her to Ichabod. I love the idea of that, and hope that's the direction they mean to head in.

Ichabod and Abraham deserve a deeper connection and more complex hatred than making it only about a love triangle. This is Ichabod Crane, Witness, and Abraham Van Brunt, Horseman of Death....I would rather they not make it that simple.

While I get that we all make choices - Ichabod also made a bad choice when he chose to tell Abraham about Katrina at the most ill time, caring more about his new love and assuaging his own guilt than the well being of his friend on a dangerous mission. I would like to see a bit of guilt on Ichabod's part. And Abraham is exactly right - "Why do you not want my redemption?!" Ichabod hasn't given him much thought.

Not enough Jenny or Irving. I would rather they cut the Henry/Katrina in the middle and add more of those two. What we got wasn't enough.

countrygirl44

I really really liked this episode.

But where is the 'Why do you not want my redemption line?' All I remember is Ichabod saying "I want redemption for you, Abraham," Then he went on to say basically how he didn't see it happening.

HalcyonDays

Oh, I didn't see it like this. I saw it like, "I'm not sticking my hand in that oily sludge - you risk your hand and do it. I already walked down the steps first." I didn't see it as anything giving glory to Ichabod over Abbie, but that's just me. Not saying she wouldn't, as we know she is capable, compared to Katrina, as we saw with rats vs. maggots.

I think I'm thinking of the movie The Mummy Returns, where one character stuck his hand into a hole and literally had his flesh and skin ripped off his hand. Abbie's probably like - "yeah, you risk your hand."

That, and his arm is longer, so easier to pull the sword out maybe?

I would rather Abbie wield the sword at one point and take down Moloch or a baddie.

ETA: I just read elsewhere that Ichabod gave Abbie the option to take out the sword, and she said no, which I think is why I thought the above. "You risk your beautiful fingers, tallboy. I'm not risking mine!" *grin*

Me too. They seemed to have a good friendship and camraderie. As long as the flashbacks don't include a certain redheaded witch and lots more swordfighting.
.

TheCheshireKitten

Maybe I misheard or projected, since I very much think Abraham throwing that in his face would be right.

Ichabod's line of wanting redemption for Abraham might have been one of the few things I wasn't feeling during their scenes.

Since when, Ichabod?

Ichabod hasn't given much thought to Abraham over all, other than assuming that he got Katrina pregnant in "Deliverance". Not only have either of them NOT mentioned any redemption for Abraham, neither of them have ever been shown to carry even a smidgeon of guilt over what happened to him. Up until this episode, one would've hardly ever known Abraham had once been Ichabod's best friend.

I can tell you, given the context of when Abraham made his decision (under the agony of dying, anger and hurt over being betrayed), if that had happened to my best friend and I was the Ichabod in that situation- I would carry that guilt and regret for the rest of my life. Because even as we all make our own decisions, are decisions are not made in a vacuum.

So the feeling at the end of the episode that Ichabod was supposed to realize it's about choice, and claims that he bears no fault for what happened to Abraham rings artificial to me. Insincere and undeserving. It certainly didn't feel earned.

In fact, this is one of my problems with Ichabod as a character. His lack of acknowledging when his actions have caused damage and that he seems to feel very little guilt over them. Abraham and his betrayal of Abbie when he redrew that map are perfect examples (he excuses his actions with the map when, after the fact, they "need" Katrina out of purgatory for Jenry's set up).

And it always comes back to Katrina. That's why I've long been a fan of her putting a spell on him - because I would rather have an Ichabod I can root for, and not one who disregards others when his wife enters the conversation, let alone the room.

ETA:

I think the heroic, dramatic light at the end with that shot of Ichabod holding the sword and the light shining down on them made it hit home for me how I feel like Ichabod's the "hero" witness, and Abbie's treated as just #2. Abbie's ancestor's presence and her mother's journal leading them there, combined with my problems with Ichabod's character and how he suddenly had "clarity" at the end when I feel he didn't do much to deserve it (see my issue with his claims to Abraham, above) helped heighten those feelings.

LunaSolTierra

The last episode was awesome and I'm not just talking about Ichabbie but about Abbie and Ichabod being equal partners in this war. I just love their dynamic, this really brought me back to season 1. It was great seeing them work together as a team, just the two of them.

What happen with Irving, does this mean is gone off the show for a while. Not that he's been on the show much this season, but I thought we finally got the entire team together. Now he's gone and it seems not likely to be in the coming episodes.

If I were Jenny I would be pissed off, making me drive all that way just to up and disappear, leaving me in the middle of nowhere.

I missed Nick but the episode was fine without him.

I don't know what's the deal with Katrina is. Is she really this useless or if she deliberately making so many mistakes. I want to like her but she's making it very difficult.

Static Waves

Other than fighting over Katrina, I thought this episode was so much fun to watch. I like the crane/abbie detective work, and them actually finding an artifact that can help. It finally moved the plot to a head that will come to fruition next week it seems? I like that both Abbie and Crane were allowed to bring their own POV know into finding the artifact. The Mama episode definitely helped set things up in that respect.



and last but not least, another week of john noble killing it! too bad this sci-fi genres are marginally underrepresented in awards... it looks like he's gonna give a killer performance next week a la last year's season finale. (S1 finale monologue was spellbinding imo, hopefully they give him something just as awesome next week.)

Persephone

our-destinies-entwined

Persephone

ichabod & abbie >> 2x10 “Magnum Opus”
signsofjupiter