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Old 03-22-2015, 10:54 AM
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"It's a Box Inside a Box Inside a Box, Dip****" 4.12 Airs Sunday April 05th 10/9c Showtime

"It's a Box Inside a Box Inside a Box, Dip****" 4.12 Airs Sunday April 05th 10/9c Showtime


Marty could make K&A a top firm if he can convince his employees to stay; Jeannie gives birth; Clyde, Doug and Kelsey wait for an offer; Roscoe faces consequences.

VIDEO TO COME
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+ Respect each others opinions.
+ Please do not quote a previous post with the intent to argue or insult.
+ No bashing of producers, writers, directors, actors, fanbases etc. is allowed.
+ Most importantly, have fun!
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Old 03-22-2015, 10:57 AM
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for our spoiler tag free discussions when this ep airs.
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Old 03-22-2015, 01:17 PM
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Let's hope it "airs" soon.
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Old 03-23-2015, 05:57 AM
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The ep is available
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Old 03-23-2015, 12:45 PM
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soooo... that was interesting.

as far as the finale's go... it wasn't as good as the previous ones for me - the stakes where never high enough - i thought there were going to be fireworks but instead things with Denna just fizzled. They did however wrap a lot of things up (i didnt think they would be able to considering the time frame) so i suppose on the off chance that it doesnt get picked up for season 5 it was a good place to finish, with Marty victorious both professionally and personally.

not a lot of jeannie again. which is unfortunate but the first scene of her screaming was fairly classic and the subsequent scenes with her and marty where very special, albeit brief.

thankfully monica and malcolm where no shows.
denna came in and said her piece right up front and then got out of the way for everything else to play out.
marty getting hit on the head with the glass was pretty funny
and for a change he saved the day... although he was the reason why the day needed saving in the first place but lets move on from that point.

clyde showed such impressive character growth this season and they put it on ful display in the finale with his final '**** you' into the telephone and how he and kelsey are interacting.

doug, well, i wanted to punch him.

i cant believe jeannie took the job, but it was the smart thing to do. an incredible opportunity for her and i guess as marty's biggest client (if next season comes to pass) they will find interesting ways to interact a lot and it will only be a matter of time before she returns to Kaan and Associates.

it was so great to see the flashback to the 'i love you scene' and know that it was still very true and that by all accounts and purposes they were now together (personally if not professionally) and might make a go of it.

the final scene with that new little 'family' was pretty perfect. lots of love there.

fantastic arc for roscoe this season, his scene with jeremiah was sensational, and the way that they allowed his character to be a hero to himself (and marty) by owning up to his error was very well done.

ps. loved the song to end.
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Old 03-23-2015, 02:36 PM
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I agree with just about everything you wrote. It's pretty clear that after ep 9, kb had to curtail her workload and the show had to write it's way around her limited availability, which subsequently - through no one's fault - lead to weaker episodes, so if this is it, it kinda sucks to have kb miss most of it.

in ep 10, Jeannie was clearly supposed to be the dissenting voice in the pod against Shags; thereby, punching up the humor and drama, especially the line about how she wouldn't stop b***hing about Shags as a client.

and in ep 12, Jeanie was supposed to be at the party when her water broke; thus, leading to the dilemma of whether Marty should go to the hospital or stay to convince the acquired companies to remain at K & A. In fact, I believe that's why she said, "No Way!" when he walked into the hospital room. She would've told him to stay and save the company and not worry or something like that.

Another question: When Jeannie says, "I'm trying to push the big-head of your child through my tiny vagina." Marty's response is (this is a paraphrase), "Be careful, I need that - " implying her vagina, which indicates to me that they were already together, maybe not sexually, but rather that they had come to terms with being couple of some kind or type.

Also, in ep 11, Denna (when Jeannie confronts her about the CFO job offer) says, "I know you and Marty have mended things and that might make this complicated for you." Marty stopped trying to push Jeannie out of K & A after ep 7, in ep 8 they both worked together to convince Denna to short the Gage stock. So when Denna says, "mended things" she's referring to Jeannie and Marty "mending things" personally.

I write all this to say, I think there was supposed to something else here - that couldn't happen for obvious reasons - between Jeannie and Marty that would have punched up the drama and personal intrigue of the last three eps.

I don't know. Oh well. Both ep 11 &12 will air back to back on Mar 29th, perhaps because the finale wasn't strong enough and might have a better impact if shown after 11 - the strongest of the last three episodes.
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Old 03-25-2015, 01:31 PM
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it kinda goes a long way to showing what kb really brings to the table... that the show is 'weaker' without her is testament to her and her skill, what the character really offers and how the writers shine a light on her... and of course her chemistry with the pod and marty in particular.

as an aside, i think that doug really suffered in the later part of this season. it would appear that jeannie was the only one that could tell him to 'shut the **** up' and he would vaguely listen... but with less jeannie time we wound up with doug talking more... to his detriment. i dont really have a point to make here i dont think... but i think if we get season 5, its time to give the nerd a bit more depth and a bit less akward and annoying vibes.

Back on point i just want to say that i am very much in agreement with you.

i think that something was missing (they couldnt shoot it because of kb or whatnot) but there was definitely what felt like a chapter that had been lost. and the story arc suffered because of it.

also with the whole Deena thing sort of blowing out before it began it just lacked a certain 'extreme' do or die feel... in fact Deena handled the situation admirably... and you cant help but root for her a bit because she is clearly an adult that behaves in adult ways (albeit sharkey) but Marty, he's a kid in the playground that got pushed in the sandbox so he started making mud pies and throwing them around. its entertaining... but a bit empty sometimes (in this instance for example).

so yes, i think if kb had been able to be around a bit more in the last few eps, we would have seen a very different backend 3... and a stronger season because of it as well.

that said, i am waiting with baited breath to hear about season 5. surprised and a bit horrified that we havent yet. i thought for sure this last week would give it to us.
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:24 PM
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If it's any consolation, I don't believe the finale was intended to function as a soft series finale. The irony of Marty trying to get rid of Jeannie was the realization of how necessary she is to K & A. When the going gets tough in season 4, Marty yells, "Where's, Jeannie?" I can think of 4 eps off the top of my head where he said that. When she tells him she took the CFO job, it's a serious blow to his plan because, for the first time since he yielded 50% of K & A to her, he didn't mistakenly say "my company."

Lets keep our fingers crossed! My gut says we'll get a final season - maybe not 12 eps.
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Old 03-26-2015, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mychichi (View Post)
If it's any consolation, I don't believe the finale was intended to function as a soft series finale. The irony of Marty trying to get rid of Jeannie was the realization of how necessary she is to K & A. When the going gets tough in season 4, Marty yells, "Where's, Jeannie?" I can think of 4 eps off the top of my head where he said that. When she tells him she took the CFO job, it's a serious blow to his plan because, for the first time since he yielded 50% of K & A to her, he didn't mistakenly say "my company."

Lets keep our fingers crossed! My gut says we'll get a final season - maybe not 12 eps.
i have to give you a high five i didnt even realize the synchoronisity of him finally relinquishing full control of Kaan at the moment that she walks away. i just rewatched that final scene. he said 'we' so many times and called her 'co-president' that is massive massive MASSIVE for him. and then when she says she's leaving... he is sad but also happy for her, ready to acknowledge it was the right decision.

its going to be an interesting dynamic with them working apart from each other now. although im sure, still very much together.

heres to a season 5 which better be announced soon.
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Old 03-26-2015, 04:33 PM
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hey all! i just saw on ben schwartz's tumblr about the finale and it looks like showtime is letting subscribers watch episode 11 online but he says episode 12 can only be see on tv, so maybe they're using that viewership to make a decision?

hopefully the back to back finale and only having the ability to watch episode 12 on tv (if you're not a downloader or streamer kind of person) will bolster more viewers who might have just been watching online. and hopefully either way we get a season 5 because this show is amazing, with an amazing cast and sometimes i think it's seriously underrated
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Old 03-26-2015, 05:22 PM
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The final scene is a bit rushed and short, but it's actually quite powerful (the last song is heartbreakingly good) - kb and don had incredible scenes this year, even though most of it was bogged down in anger and regret.

The network monitors subscriber response to the show in the form of viewership. Ratings are an indicator but not the main criteria for determining viewership. They calculate all views whether it happens at 10pm Sunday or 4am Friday, whether it is watched on demand or hosted on the showtime site - all views are rated the same.

If you are a subscriber to Showtime, watch it however you want, just watch it. Also, all half/hour comedies on pay channels are around the same ratings range as HoL.

If there is a season 5, I think they'll reposition the show around Jeannie and Marty as a family, which could be explosively good.

If you have Showtime, you know what you have to do.
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Old 03-27-2015, 12:35 PM
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yeah, im all for a family dynamic. mostly because there is no way its not gonna be as dysfunctional as all hell. but i think we saw just enough character growth from marty over the last few episodes (at least on a relationship/personal front - not necessarily a work front) to make it work. i wonder at what point they pick up the show though WHEN we get season 5 (power of postive thinking) do they move it ahead a few months so that jeannie is back at work? or do they pick it up from trying to figure out where jeannie lives etc.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:15 AM
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Don't forget Monica's crazy - as Roscoe's mom, that antagonism might get nuts. Momma Jeannie vs Psycho Monica, especially after "the punch," could be a dynamic we haven't seen before.

Also, renewals are simply press releases, which is to say, they could've already made up their minds on the show next year but haven't worked out the details. My guess, entirely speculative, would be whether the execs believe there's longevity for a sustained run or is season 5 basically it, number of eps: 12, 10, 8, and also the fate of Episodes - HoL and Episodes are kinda linked, both half/hour comedies - i think they're the only two on Showtime, both have declining viewership, scheduled back-to-back, and both at a 4th season crossroads.

I think chances are good, but only time will tell.
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Old 03-28-2015, 10:31 AM
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true that. and we havent had a showdown between them since the punch. monica has (thankfully - sorry dawn) been MIA.

so not only does jeannie take marty out of the '**** buddy' arena, she moves in and becomes 'mom' figure and becomes a 'mom' that roscoe actually likes. AND she has a high powered job that is enough to make any ambitious human jealous. yeah, could be some serious fireworks going on. of course jeannie is the one female in the kaan household that malcolm hasnt made a move on yet... so that is also a revolting idea that could come to pass and make things interesting - no doubt marty would kill him which i would not be adverse to.

so, here we sit and wait. guess we'll know our fate on Monday.
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Old 03-29-2015, 11:54 AM
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Showtime is airing the last two episodes of HOL back to back tonight.
Please note: this thread is an open and active discussion. so SPOILER ALERT if you are lurking.

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