[~AnastasiaGrey~]

Originally Posted by ollibear (View Post) True. I think so, too. But I am so proud of Bay for taking a stand and telling Emmett that they cannot be friends. Back when Bay was Emmett's girlfriend, she should have told Tank that they could not be friends. So much heartache could have been avoided, if Bay had simply chosen not to blur those lines. Finally, Bay is doing the right thing.

Yeah she did good

[ollibear]

So in between the last two episodes, Travis and Bay reconciled and everything seems to be made up between them, after Bay's indiscretion in tattooing Emmett.

I am glad that incident did not derail Travis and Bay.

We also learned that Travis had confided everything about Chris to Bay, so the two of them are close. Emmett did not do any permanent damage to Bay's connection with Travis.

I am NOT looking forward to seeing Emmett cause any more trouble for Bay and Travis. (And I ship Bay and Emmett.)

But I don't want to see that.

Truly, if Emmett ever loved Bay, then Melody is 100% right. He has to let her go to be with Travis. I won't respect Emmett if he does anything else.

How are others feeling about it?

It's not that I think Bay and Travis are great together. We haven't seen that yet. But we have seen that Travis is a good person. If Emmett messes up things for Bay with Travis, I won't forgive Emmett for that. I have this fear that the writers will decide to make Emmett fight for Bay. The writers love rubbing manure all over the character of Emmett, and that is one of the last realistic ways that they can do it. I cannot imagine the writers passing up an opportunity to make Emmett's clay feet any weaker.

As much as I love Emmett, I am glad he has such a minor role this season. I wish he could disappear. Every time the writers bring him on screen, they write him to look worse. Emmett was a character that I deeply loved and respected. For years now, all the writers have shown us are Emmett's feet of clay. The writers seem to revel in doing that.

According to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feet_of_clay

In psychology, especially psychotherapy, the expression "feet of clay" does not refer to a character defect, but the disappointment the patient may express to the therapist in once admiring a parent. In the eventual realization that a father, for instance, is a mere mortal - only a man, after all - the patient may express what the therapist perceives as a trauma. This disappointment is a normal experience, but can be misinterpreted or processed poorly by the patient as most painful and lasting. The therapist can then guide the patient to a better insight with which to cope with disappointments in general, most of which have little significance; if the patient has difficulty in processing disappointments in general, it may attract the attention of the most intuitive therapist. The patient's inability to cope with life's disappointments may be the very anxiety which brings the patient to the therapist to begin with, and may begin a process of working through many anxieties and improving the patient's general ability to cope.

It seems fitting that, from the beginning, Emmett reminded me of my father, and he helped Bay find her father, who also had feet of clay. Perhaps that's a theme of Switched at Birth.

Also, according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feet_of_clay

The phrase derives from the interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, by the prophet Daniel as recounted in the Book of Daniel:[2] Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. (Daniel 2:31-33) ... And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. (Daniel 2:41-43) The implication is that however impressive or strong the materials are that are used in the body of the statue, if its feet are made of clay, then the whole thing will topple over and fall to the ground.

All of it makes me think of the poem Ozymandias by Percy Shelley.

Percy Shelley's "Ozymandias" I met a traveller from an antique land Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed: And on the pedestal these words appear: 'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!' Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Doesn't the aforementioned wrinkled lip and sneer remind you of Emmett in Season 1?

The central theme of Ozymandias is contrasting the inevitable decline of all leaders and of the empires they build with their pretensions to greatness.

It seems Emmett, like all of mankind, was always destined to fall. Emmett only pretended to be great in the beginning.

To me, the direction that the writers chose to take Emmett showed their feet of clay, too. Hopefully, a character sincere and earnest like Travis can pick up the pieces for all of us.

[~AnastasiaGrey~]

Thanks for posting that

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by ~AnastasiaGrey~ (View Post) Thanks for posting that

Is there any part of it that you agree or disagree?

[~AnastasiaGrey~]

A lot of it actually

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by ~AnastasiaGrey~ (View Post) A lot of it actually

I had thought that the writers might have Travis's anger lead to a breakup with Bay, but during the episode "Occupy Truth," it was obvious that the writers have chosen to have Travis grow as a character and be able to do the right thing now. Travis standing up for Chris, after feeling competitive with him (and even displaced by him on the team) shows me that the writers are serious about trying to turn Travis into leading man material.

The writers have allowed Travis to mature and I no longer believe his anger will cause a breakup with Bay. If Travis and Bay break up, it won't be because Travis has a flaw. If the writers had another 10 episodes, I could see them writing Travis's character to realize Bay and Emmett both still love each other. I could see Travis being the one to guide Bay and Emmett back together, despite his own painful loss. Travis has already been painted as a character who would do anything to make Bay happy, even if it costs him. These writers like to give fans situations that make us feel torn. I'm over it, but I could see the writers doing something like that, if they had more time.

Over the years, I have been somewhat successful at predicting what the writers will do. I believe next on their agenda will be to further make Emmett look bad. He started out the series as an admirable young man, but he cheated, and then, after being given a second chance, he abandoned Bay as she went through one of the worst experiences of her life. Now, Emmett has started off this season trying to take his life, because of his regrets. He cried to Bay that he never should have let her go.

The writers do not seem to be exploring Emmett's depression. Instead, they are exploiting it, to make him look weak and dishonest.

I predict the next thing will be Emmett filled with anger, in the way that Travis used to be. The Switched at Birth writers love to "switch" things up. This time, Emmett and Travis will do a role reversal. The writers want to further destroy Emmett's character. I don't see them wanting to redeem Emmett, although his character badly needs it. I will keep hoping that I am wrong and that the writers will allow both Emmett and Travis to appear like good people, in the end.

[~AnastasiaGrey~]

Originally Posted by ollibear (View Post) I had thought that the writers might have Travis's anger lead to a breakup with Bay, but during the episode "Occupy Truth," it was obvious that the writers have chosen to have Travis grow as a character and be able to do the right thing now. Travis standing up for Chris, after feeling competitive with him (and even displaced by him on the team) shows me that the writers are serious about trying to turn Travis into leading man material. The writers have allowed Travis to mature and I no longer believe his anger will cause a breakup with Bay. If Travis and Bay break up, it won't be because Travis has a flaw. If the writers had another 10 episodes, I could see them writing Travis's character to realize Bay and Emmett both still love each other. I could see Travis being the one to guide Bay and Emmett back together, despite his own painful loss. Travis has already been painted as a character who would do anything to make Bay happy, even if it costs him. These writers like to give fans situations that make us feel torn. I'm over it, but I could see the writers doing something like that, if they had more time. Over the years, I have been somewhat successful at predicting what the writers will do. I believe next on their agenda will be to further make Emmett look bad. He started out the series as an admirable young man, but he cheated, and then, after being given a second chance, he abandoned Bay as she went through one of the worst experiences of her life. Now, Emmett has started off this season trying to take his life, because of his regrets. He cried to Bay that he never should have let her go. The writers do not seem to be exploring Emmett's depression. Instead, they are exploiting it, to make him look weak and dishonest. I predict the next thing will be Emmett filled with anger, in the way that Travis used to be. The Switched at Birth writers love to "switch" things up. This time, Emmett and Travis will do a role reversal. The writers want to further destroy Emmett's character. I don't see them wanting to redeem Emmett, although his character badly needs it. I will keep hoping that I am wrong and that the writers will allow both Emmett and Travis to appear like good people, in the end.

Yeah I guess we are going to have to see what happens in these last few episodes.

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by ~AnastasiaGrey~ (View Post) Yeah I guess we are going to have to see what happens in these last few episodes.

I still don't think Travis and Bay will be together at the end, but I guess it is possible. At this point, I just want Bay to be happy. That's really all that matters now.

[~AnastasiaGrey~]

Originally Posted by ollibear (View Post) I still don't think Travis and Bay will be together at the end, but I guess it is possible. At this point, I just want Bay to be happy. That's really all that matters now.

I dont either

[ollibear]

Are there any people reading this post who love Travis and Bay together and want them to spend the rest of their lives with each other?

I could.

It's just that I don't care enough about them as a couple to want to watch that yet. The writers need to give me more to love about Bay and Travis, and the writers haven't done that.

What would people love to see with Bay and Travis?

After last week, I would rather watch Emmett fall in love with Ally, than watch Bay and Travis or Daphne and whoever her boy of the moment might be.

I like watching Emmett. He mesmerizes me whenever he interacts with anyone, and even when he is all alone.

Travis just does not do that for me, and I keep thinking that the writers need to change the way that they write for his character.

[charming_essa]

If the series ends with Bay and Travis together, that is just going to feel strange to me. They've been building Bay and Emmett since the beginning. It will feel like a kick in the gut to the viewers who have been invested in Bay and Emmett's relationship for all these years. Even though I'm not a Bemmett shipper, I think the fans who love this couple should get to see them end the series together.

[ollibear]

Originally Posted by charming_essa (View Post) If the series ends with Bay and Travis together, that is just going to feel strange to me. They've been building Bay and Emmett since the beginning. It will feel like a kick in the gut to the viewers who have been invested in Bay and Emmett's relationship for all these years. Even though I'm not a Bemmett shipper, I think the fans who love this couple should get to see them end the series together.

True.

I go back and forth between 1) the writers wanting to send a message that Bay is (and in the writers' minds, all women should be) able to move on from her first love in a healthy fashion and 2) the writers wanting to send a message that Bay is (and in the writers' minds, all people who love deeply should be) unable to disentangle herself from a lifelong affair with her one true love.

Which is it? Is Bay the one who is practical, sensible, and operating on intellect? Or is Bay the one who is abstract, intuitive, and operating on emotion?

Then, I remember that I do not believe the writers have a message, and I am more confused than ever!

Seriously, I have envisioned myself asking the writers if Emmett created his film short to explore his own grief over what happened to his girlfriend OR if Emmett created his film short to exploit his girlfriend's misfortune for his own benefit, and if I did, I believe the writers would respond:

"It doesn't really matter what we believe Emmett meant to do. What do YOU believe Emmett meant when he made that decision?"

That's not true, though. It does matter what the writers meant to happen. Yes, it is up to me to decide how I feel about what happened in the story, but it is 100% up to the writers to give me the facts on which to base my feelings.

These writers want everything to be gray, and by doing that, they are abdicating their responsibility as storytellers.

I want a message from these writers. I will decide whether I agree or disagree with their message, but I want the writers to have a message.

[jintian]

I agree that authorial intent can be helpful to know in cases where I've got something wrong or confused about the text. Or, for instance, if the writers especially wanted the audience to hear a particular piece of dialogue, or if they wanted to draw a parallel to a previous scene, then it can be illuminating to know that. Beyond that, I think it's up to the audience to interpret or react however they want, and disregard any intended messages.

I don't feel I need clarification about Bay's feelings or motivations about her relationships, though. She expresses her point of view in dialogue and actions. Even if she's momentarily unsure about something, the show makes it clear that she's unsure, and that's good enough for me. (I suppose one could interpret the show as depicting her in self-denial or something, but I don't personally agree. I think of her as a character who knows where she stands by the end of each story arc, even if her stance is "I don't actually know yet how I feel." )

I don't believe that the majority of 20 year olds in a relationship will be with that person for the rest of their life, but since we're talking about fictional endgames: If Bay's with Travis when the final credits roll and she's happy, then I'm happy. The latest episode was a good one for their relationship and I'm pleased with how it's developed overall and where I think the characters might be going. Friends-to-lovers is one of my favorite dynamics and I think the show has a good version of it with these two.

They both have strong personal senses of morality which I find admirable: Travis stands up for people who have been hurt even when it means arguing with loved ones (Chris during the player strike, Bay dealing with her sexual assault), and Bay's impulse with people in trouble is always generosity (shelter, money, take the fall, etc). I find good people getting to be with good people satisfying to watch.

They're shown to be supportive of each other's passions and understanding of each other's priorities: Travis helped Bay talk through her art and identity worries last season, and he gave her encouragement about her tattoo job even when it cut into their time together. Bay understood that he was worried about regionals and waited to tell him something she thought might upset him -- even if she shouldn't have, it came from wanting the best for him.

But they don't judge each other for their faults or begrudge each other's mistakes. Actually, I feel like any mistakes they've made with each other have led to positive changes and learning experiences, like how to set healthy boundaries or have healthy expectations of each other. Character growth like that is also satisfying to watch.

Also, I just really like the chemistry in how they smile at each other. It's adorable!

I wish their relationship could have gotten more screen time, both in China and after they got home. But I understand the constraints of balancing so many characters with all the social issues stories the writers wanted to tell. Hopefully they were able to re-work the episodes after the 100th, once they found out they were canceled, to bring closure to characters and relationships.

[~AnastasiaGrey~]

Originally Posted by charming_essa (View Post) If the series ends with Bay and Travis together, that is just going to feel strange to me. They've been building Bay and Emmett since the beginning. It will feel like a kick in the gut to the viewers who have been invested in Bay and Emmett's relationship for all these years. Even though I'm not a Bemmett shipper, I think the fans who love this couple should get to see them end the series together.

Yeah so True

[ollibear]

Bay and Travis seem healthy and in love with each other, but something is missing. It's weird.

Why would the writers make their relationship so hollow? What's going on?