Barstool Prophet

I mean it seems to be more important that Daphne becomes a doctor to Bay then worrying about her own future.

John S

Bay's future is shot. She doesn't have one.
If I gave up my life so that my sister could become a doctor, you can be pretty darn sure that I would want her to become that doctor. She BETTER do everything in her power to try to become one - and so far, Daphne hasn't done much at all.

~AnastasiaGrey~

I wish we could see that but sadly it wont happen

teaholic

I tend to agree with Amy/ollibear that Bay's reason for taking the fall for Daphne was that she wasn't really ready to move to California with Emmett anyway, and this gave her the opportunity to do something impulsive to avoid that. Plus, it's also in character for her to take on someone else's problems and do something not-well-thought-out to help. I think she was definitely touched by Daphne's woe-is-me story about not being able to be a doctor, but ultimately, I'm not sure it means that much to her that Daphne becomes one. I don't understand why, but for some reason she doesn't seem to think about Daphne's future; nor did she think much about her own, when she gave so much up for Daphne (which still frustrates me).

I like what we're doing on this board with trying to figure out the characters' motivations based on their actions rather than on what they say. I thought maybe we could try to figure out where Bay's and Daphne's real passions and interests lie based on what they've done in the past four seasons. What do you guys think?

For example, Daphne now claims she really wants to be a doctor. She has done some things to pursue that, such as applying to pre-med, working really hard to pass her chemistry class, and volunteering at a clinic while in China. Formerly, she used to say she wanted to be a chef or something like that. Her actions were a lot stronger in confirmation of that; for example, she tried very hard to get a job in a kitchen (and eventually got one and worked hard at it), she cooked a lot in her spare time, she baked cupcakes as a way to raise money for Emmett's motorcycle, she wanted to work in Angelo's restaurant, etc. Lately, that seems to have mostly fallen by the wayside. Finally, she used to care a lot about athletics, including playing basketball for her school(s) and then taking up field hockey when basketball was no longer funded at Carlton. I don't remember her playing any sports since she started college, though.

But aside from these avowed interests, Daphne seems to have a strong interest in social justice or even maybe some kind of social work. Some of the things she has done:

• organizing the uprising at Carlton
• fitting hearing aids in Mexico and pursuing a particular deaf girl who had never learned sign language in order to reach out to her
• trying to sort out Sharee's home life with her mentally ill mother
• trying to sort out Travis's home life with parents who didn't sign or support him
• getting involved in the black students' protest at UMKC

As far as Bay, her avowed interest has always been art, and she has done a lot of things to prove that, from her street art, to her art class at UMKC while she was still in high school, to applying to Pratt, to now becoming a tattoo artist. However, like Daphne, she also has a sort of social worker/social justice warrior side, and she also tends to impulsively get involved in other people's business in an effort to help. Here are some of the things she has done:

• playing a crucial role in the uprising at Carlton, and making the art for it
• wearing a tux to her prom to support same-sex couples (and having to spend the prom outside the building)
• trying to help Zarra with money
• trying to help Tess
• trying to help Ty with money when they first started dating
• trying to help Tank sort out his complicated relationship with his father (after they were no longer dating)
• taking the fall for Daphne

It's an interesting pattern... it seems like both girls can't help but get involved in all these causes or try to change people's lives (as they see it) for the better, but it has a slightly different flavor. In Daphne's case, she sort of sees herself as a leader or a missionary of sorts, whereas Bay seems more like a martyr for other people.

What do you guys think? Do you agree? And do you think the show is trying to send some kind of message about these girls' destiny? What would be fitting careers for them given that these are their passions?

John S

Bay became a convicted felon so that Daphne COULD become a doctor, which was her passion at the time. If Daphne does not become a doctor, then she will have failed Bay. I would think that it would be VERY hard to live with oneself, with that failure.
If Bay finds passion in being a tattoo artist, then good for her. Unfortunately, her options are rather limited.
Kathryn once had the passion of writing a musical. Apparently, that passion has ended.

ollibear

Oh, my! How did I miss this post? I LOVE it!

^ I agree with every word 100%.

In my heart, I don't believe the writers chose to have Bay take the fall for Daphne solely because of Daphne. Bay's top priority wasn't saving Daphne from prison or Daphne becoming a doctor.

Bay took the fall, because Bay wasn't ready for such a big commitment to Emmett.

Bay was determined at the beginning of that episode to prove to J & K that she could move to California, with or without their approval. I don't think Bay believed that Regina would give her the money from Angelo's will. I don't think Bay believed that Melody would support her move to LA with Emmett, either. I don't think Bay believed it would all be so easy. Bay is a person who likes a challenge. She likes conflict. She likes to fight.

I think Bay felt naked, without the war.

When everything came together, even J & K's reluctant approval, and when there were no obstacles, Bay needed an escape route. She needed an out.

Bay wasn't ready to make the jump with Emmett.

I also believe that is why, in To Repel Ghosts, Bay's alter ego (her ghost) told her that she and Emmett probably would have broken up anyway, even if she had moved to California to be with him. Bay has believed that all along.

But I don't think it is the truth.

Yes! I am game!

Perfect list! Yes!

To add to what you've written about Daphne, I also remember that she blackmailed a senator and wrote a blog post in defense of her so-called "fight" for social justice in the political arena. And Daphne wanted to help that intern who may (or may not) have been pregnant with Chip Coto's baby.

Daphne also got involved with Campbell, a young man in a wheel chair. She preferred dating him rather than continuing a relationship with Jorge, a medic at the free clinic, where she did her probation. Daphne learned about Campbell's traumatic-brain injury and became instrumental in making sure that Campbell did not go on a ski trip with his buddies following his birthday celebration. She also wanted to advocate for Campbell when establishments did not welcome him because of his wheelchair, but she stepped back when Campbell pointed out it was his decision.

Also, I remember how Daphne took the food truck to her old neighborhood to provide the poor families with free food. What an eye-opener it was for Daphne when some of the people in her old neighborhood feared that her providing free food would put their restaurants out of business.

Daphne tried to help Noah accept his impending Deafness and become comfortable in wearing hearing aids.

Interestingly enough, Daphne seems to show no interest whatsoever in helping her old buddy Emmett with his depression. Although Daphne recently had a flash-back-panic-attack about ignoring Bay's symptoms in China, she continues to ignore Emmett's symptoms now. Daphne hasn't even visited Emmett to find out if he is okay.

Do you think Daphne ever wanted to help Nacho with his plight? Or was she just using him? (Or was he using her? Their relationship is complicated.)

As for sports in college, you are right. Daphne hasn't participated in an organized sport, whereas she did every year in high school. We have seen Daphne running with Travis, Mingo, Sharee, and maybe Vimla (I know she ran with Sharee, but did she run with Vimla, too, this season?). Daphne also organized and participated in that triathlon to win bathroom privileges for her floor of the dorm. I guess that's something.

I still don't get the feeling that Daphne really wants to become a doctor. It doesn't seem to be her passion. She was excited to earn the role of the dorm safety captain, and then, she abandoned it to go to China. We haven't seen her continue to look out for John anymore, after his heart attack. I don't have the sense that she is all that interested in her nephew's health issues or her mom's problem with the joints and bones in her hands, wrist, and arms (preventing her from using ASL).

Also, Daphne wasn't interested in medicine when Bay injured her hand, by falling on glass, or when Angelo injured his hand, by putting a nail through it.

As a side note, shouldn't someone let Abby's father know that she also has the potential to develop aneurysms, and it should be monitored?

And are we ever going to meet Emmett's baby brother? Why wasn't Emmett's dad around, when Emmett overdosed on pills?

Also, Bay advocated for Matthew, when Emmett was going to report Matthew's catfish scheme and blackmail by way of revealing photo. I actually feel it was wrong for Bay to dissuade Emmett from reporting it. There is no reason why Matthew's sexuality had to play into the report. It is simple enough for Emmett to just report the crime, without telling the whole world Matthew was in love with him.

Bay is another one who tried to help Noah adjust to his impending Deafness, too.

Bay also wanted to help Mary Beth recover from her brother's suicide. She wanted to help Ty recover from his post-traumatic stress disorder, and she wanted to help Emmett when he was suffering because of his parents' fighting over custody.

I do agree.

Daphne definitely sees herself as a some sort of advocate (or spokesperson) for the less fortunate. It seems to have been triggered by her discovery that her bio-family is wealthy. I don't have the feeling that Daphne felt the need to help others before learning that she was switched at birth. I almost see her compulsion to do so now as triggered by guilt.

And Bay seems to feel as though she must martyr herself to make up for that with which she grew up and was never meant to have.

Personally, I wish Daphne would go back to wanting to become a chef. I totally bought her passion in the beginning, and I believe that she would have been brilliant at it. There is a need for good restaurants, and Daphne had the potential to create a great one. Not to mention, I hate the thought that those two kids that robbed Daphne's food truck could put an end to her dream so quickly.

As for Bay, I can accept that she has moved away from street art to become a tattoo artist, although I saw something mythic and epic, in her desire to do street art, that I do not see in her desire to tattoo.

Bay's decision to become a convicted felon makes legal tattooing a safer occupation for her than illegal street art. That's good. Neither type of art is what I dreamed for her, though. But Bay hasn't turned out to be who I thought she would be in Season 1. I always imagined Bay would love children and would be good with them, but Bay kept Abby at a distance other than one brief time when she bonded with her, right after she discovered their potential to develop aneurysms. Bay also did not want Toby to keep his baby, and if Bay had accidentally become pregnant with Emmett's baby, she indicated that she would not have wanted it either. So I no longer think Bay feels a natural affinity for children. Surprisingly, children seem to be more Daphne's interest, than Bay's. That's nice, because it softened Daphne as a character.

So I imagine Bay won't ever have a career working with young people. I see Bay as a tattoo artist and only a tattoo artist now. I can't imagine her doing anything else. I would have loved to have seen her working in a museum, or with her own art gallery, or starting a foundation to reach out to young people, if she had not become a convicted felon. But those aren't the career choices of real artists, and I do believe that Bay is a real artist. So I am glad that she is pursuing her goal in whatever fashion she sees fit.

~AnastasiaGrey~

I just wish this show would stick with one thing and finish it

John S

Bay may have taken the fall because she was "running away" from Emmett BUT her move put Daphne in a corner. If she doesn't want to feel like a failure, she MUST become a doctor.

~AnastasiaGrey~

Yeah that is True

ollibear

If I was Daphne, I would feel like a failure even if I became a doctor. Anyone who uses their sister, in the way that Daphne used Bay, should feel like a failure.

I would like to see Daphne truly lamenting that choice in the upcoming episodes. Or, if the writers are unwilling to do that, then just go ahead and make Daphne a villain. I could root for Daphne as a villain, or I could root for her as someone who regrets what she has done.

But to see Daphne go on with her life as if that decision was no big deal, well, that makes it impossible for me to connect with her.

John S

As I have stated before, I believe that the ONLY way for Daphne to lament that choice, or to actually become a "villain" would be if Bay would go to jail for some reason.

ollibear

The way that the writers keep making Bay's life so dismal, I would rather see her in jail. It feels like Bay is in jail now, stuck in a relationship with the lackluster Travis and working as a tattoo artist. What a bleak existence. At least with Bay in jail, Daphne would have had to deal with all that guilt.

Bay's life sucks. Wish she'd been able to move to LA with Emmett.

John S

YES - Bay has had a bleak existence ever since she took the blame.
YES- Her life does suck. I wish that she had put her foot down and MADE Daphne try her hardest to become a doctor. She may have looked like the villain but, at least, she would have been in control.
You have said that Bay didn't really want to move to L.A. What is it that she wants?
She is a convicted felon. Contrary to what most of the people on this forum want, she probably will NOT end up with Emmett. It's unlikely that she will end up with Travis. Is she going to spend the rest of her life being a tattoo artist? - O.K. If that's what she wants but IS that what she wants?
There are 4 episodes left. I don't see how the writers can finalize all of the storylines. We MAY be left with cliffhangers - or worse, NO endings.

ollibear

I don't know what Bay wants. She didn't want to go to LA, because she was scared.

Emmett did reject Bay, and I believe Bay being a convicted felon played into that. That sort of label changes the way you see someone.

Travis seemed to think Bay's status as a convicted felon was cool. He called it "badass" if I remember. I don't see him thinking less of Bay unless he finds great success on the ball field, and her status causes people to think less of him. But I doubt most people care about ball players wives.

Bay won't lose Travis because of her status as a criminal. It will be because he doesn't trust her love for him (same as Emmett).

I doubt Bay cares about having a boyfriend by the last episode.

Why Bay cares about being a tattoo artist is beyond me. I wish that they'd allowed viewers to see Bay fall in love with the art form organically. It was just sort of thrown at us, as if this was Bay's passion now. News to me! She at least could have shown more interest when Ty showed up with his tattoo, or when she was hanging out with Zarra's tattooed gang, or when Emmett broke her heart (either time).

Instead Bay goes to China and gets a tattoo with her new soul sister. Why does Bay even care about Daphne? The writers have never shown Bay loving or admiring Daphne until she suddenly took the fall for her. Weird!

I wish the writers had shown us Bay internalizing how Emmett was Daphne's protector, and her doing it, too, because she loves Emmett so much. That would have made sense to me and given Emmett a reason to feel guilty, too. I would have liked seeing a story like that. I could have learned from it. This current story for Bay feels like the writers throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks. Bay deserves a story deeper than that.

~AnastasiaGrey~

Yeah it can go that way too