ollibear

Slayerfan714

Thanks, Amy

Forwood4Bamon

At this point, I want wilke back.

Subject

Just from the description I will now assume that Katherine's mother is gay. Lucille is her partner. (Not at being gay) Just that the same storyline has been used many times over.

Wes&FredFan

Seems like the show has gotten pretty predictable. I'm pretty much assuming the same as you are - that Lucille is her mother's partner. Matthew and Natalie are other gay characters on SAB, and they've been forgotten. It's not considered fresh if it's been done before.

ollibear

Just a guess, and I may not be in step with the writers, so take it for what it is worth, but I have a feeling Kathryn's mother may tell her she is dying.

Her mother being gay would not be any big deal to Kathryn.

Wes&FredFan

I have a hunch that Lucille is Kathryn's mothers girlfriend/partner. Especially since the actress who plays her (Meredith Baxter) is a lesbian in real life.

It's not really a big deal ... but it might be a change for Kathryn. Not sure why they thought of that as a new storyline.

Slayerfan714

tbh, I also had the same feeling as Amy, that her mom's going to tell her she's dying.

There was that shot in the promo of Kathryn crying in front of the window. And I don't think it's about anything else other than her mom and I don't think it's about her mom's sexuality. I mean I guess she could be dying and Lucille could be her partner as well, but I can't see Kathryn being that upset about her mom being with a woman. Kathryn did kiss Regina at that book party and she's writing a book about swinging couples. I think Kathryn has an open mind regarding sex/sexuality.

Pigquet

Well I certainly didn't see that twist coming, regarding Kathryn's mother. I truly did believe that Lucille was her girlfriend, too, but now looking back at it, I'm glad it wasn't that predictable. It seems now that she is her friend/primary caretaker.

My aunt was recently diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and the way Kathryn was speaking in denial was very similar to how my mom's been reacting to the news ("Its a mistake," "I forget things all the time," "You've been fine this whole time," etc.). I'm not necessarily saying that just because something is realistic that its an interesting or well-written storyline (I really don't know if this is a storyline that will continue much, if her mother's moving to France and we'll rarely see her anyway), but that part did make me a bit emotional, seeing Kathryn react that way.

On an unrelated note: Dear god, I know that teenage couples often have a lot of drama, but can't these writers EVER leave Bay and Emmett alone and let them be happy? EVER?!

Forwood4Bamon

I still love bemmett a lot. I am so sad that they don't know where they stand.

Wes&FredFan

I was underwhelmed with the ep, TBH. It was okay, but I'm glad that Bay was honest with Emmett. It's interesting to hear Emmett believes that all guys have the sole responsibility of walking away ... and even Bay pointed out that his own encounter with Simone involved alcohol for him as well.

It seems hypocritical of Emmett to condemn Bay when he was moments away from making a move on Skye before Daphne got him back to KC. That seems to have been forgotten about. He told Bay that he pushed Skye away the moment she kissed him, but he didn't exactly disclose that he was ready to move forward.

Yes, of course Daphne had to tell Nacho about Bay turning herself in and taking the fall ... all because Nacho called her a "rich, white girl." Way to prove how tough you are, Daphne. I get that she thought she was helping, by telling Nacho he didn't have to watch his back ... but how was the fact that she confessed to a felony to a teenaged thug supposed to help everybody? I wasn't surprised that he blackmailed Regina and Daphne. Glad Alec (?) stepped in.

Not really excited about next week. Another boyfriend for Daphne?

Subject

The worst part of this storyline for me is the "rape" term. Bay seems to be avoiding it because she doesn't know what happened. Which I understand but because so many people around her have used the word I wish she would say it.

Not say that it was raped but to acknowledge the word. Like for her to just say rape... then say I don't know if it was rape or not... I just don't know.

They seem to be trying to avoid the word now.

Gay or not gay, doesn't matter with her mom. I did find it funny that I thought the same thing as John. I find myself agreeing with him in many situations though.

ollibear

I feel a bit sad to learn that you were underwhelmed with the episode. I love this show so much.

But I understand that everyone's tastes are different.

What are some of your all-time favorite shows, Donna?

What do you look for in a TV series? What qualities make you feel attached? Are there certain things that make the story "good" to you? If so, what are they?

I am glad that Bay was honest with Emmett, too.

I don't feel that was her only option. She could have chosen to look at what happened to her as a rape and avoid the complexities.

Bay could have chosen to make Tank a monster, in her mind, but I am glad that she didn't.

Bay will be in a stronger position going forward, if she does not see herself as a victim, or even as a survivor.

Bay's best chance for a positive future is if she sees herself as someone who made poor choices and has the power to fix that, all by herself.


Both of those two moments are interesting for me, as well.

I was fascinated that Bay agreed with Emmett, when he said, "Tank was the guy. He should have walked away."

Bay said, "Yes, he should have, but, ah, it's complicated."

Why should the guy be the one to walk away?

I can understand Emmett feeling that way, to a certain extent. Often, guys take it upon themselves to be a woman's protector.

But why would Bay feel as though Tank should have been the one to stop what happened? She knows they were both very drunk.

Why does Bay put that responsibility on Tank?

I don't think Bay really does put the responsibility on Tank, because she followed up that statement with, "It's complicated."

Perhaps Bay is just realizing that given the fact she did not put a stop to the sex, then it fell upon Tank to do so for her. Tank was the only other one who could have put a stop to the sex, besides Bay.

No one else was in the room with them, to change the outcome.

I do find it interesting that some people, like Emmett, believe the responsibility should fall solely on the man's shoulders to stop it, in these circumstances, where both the man and the woman are drunkenly consenting to sex with each other.

I know humans have intelligence, and therefore, the ability to override our instincts, to a certain extent.

But just from an evolutionary stand-point, I would think that the male of any species would be less likely to stop sexual intercourse from occurring, than the female would.

I don't understand why people in our society, like Emmett and Bay, would feel that responsibility falls to the man, and not to both individuals.

That doesn't seem hypocritical to me at all.

In Emmett's mind, when he was making his move on Skye, he and Bay were 100% completely and totally broken up. It wasn't cheating. There is nothing to confess.

Emmett saw himself as a free agent, and he could do what he wanted.

From the moment Bay told Emmett she had cheated on him with Tank, Emmett saw them as over. He wasn't thinking this news was merely a problem that they needed to solve. Emmett saw the news as their end.

Emmett was thinking that his relationship with Bay had been irrevocably severed, just as Bay showed Emmett their relationship was ripped apart, by her choice to immediately start a relationship with Alex, when Emmett confessed his cheating to her.

So for me, it wasn't hypocritical. Emmett waited two years, not really dating anyone, after he cheated, while Bay had several boyfriends.

So in my mind, Emmett was looking to make up for lost time, and if Bay had cheated on him, as he thought, then he would have had that right.

Why would that be hypocritical?


It's Eric, and me, too!

Oh, I am!

I love this show. And it's so true to Daphne's character that she is ready to jump into a new relationship, instead of focusing on her studies, as she should.

I agree with John, sometimes, too. He doesn't always have the politically correct way of looking at the world, but even so, he does make sense sometimes.

As for Bay's avoidance of the word "rape," I see that as because she does know what happened. Not that Bay remembers the sex with Tank, she just knows in her heart that he didn't rape her.

To Bay, Tank is not a monster, and if Tank had raped Bay, she would feel as though he is.

Emmett used the word "rape" more than once, when he spoke to Bay, and each time she told him, "It's complicated." To me, that's Bay's way of telling Emmett that she doesn't believe she was raped.

Without her memory, Bay can never know for certain what happened between them, but her instincts do tell her that Tank did not rape her.

Bay told several people that what happened between them was a stupid, drunken mistake, and I think that's the way she sees it, even now.

Perhaps Bay is afraid if she says to Emmett, "I don't know whether or not I was raped," she is fearful that he will see that as her admission that she might have said "yes" to sex with Tank.

It seems almost easier for Bay to just say, "It's complicated," because then, she doesn't have to admit that she may have said "yes."

Pigquet

Well, not to judge Bay too much, because I truly do believe that she's trying to do the right thing in all of this, and I sympathize with everything she's been through in this whole mess, BUT...if that is the case, and she's purposely avoiding saying anything but "Its complicated" in regards to whether she was or was not raped, then she's kind of doing exactly what Tank accused her of: trying to rewrite history so that she doesn't feel guilty for cheating on her boyfriend. Right?

I mean, if Bay's thoughts on that matter, in her head, are truly "I cannot be 100% sure if the sex was consensual or not because I blacked out, but I am almost positive that Tank did not rape me, and its likely I gave him some form of consent, even if it wasn't verbal," then...THAT'S what she should say when telling this story. THAT'S what she should have said to the investigator AND to Emmett. But she isn't doing that. She keeps repeating the line "Its complicated" almost as a cheat so that she doesn't have to blame him OR blame herself. And that's kind of wrong. She says she wants to tell Emmett the truth, but the "Its complicated" line is really a clever way of bending the truth. Its almost an "I have no idea" rather than a "I don't know for sure, but I have a pretty GOOD idea it was not rape."

That is IF she is only saying that for the reasons you stated above. If she's saying "Its complicated" so that she doesn't have to tell Emmett she may have consented. If she's only saying that because its how she truly feels, then there's nothing wrong with it at all. But yeah, if she's only saying it to get herself out of an uncomfortable and guilty confession to Emmett, then it really is not the moral or respectable thing to do.

And also, I am not at all implying that Bay was doing this when Tank first accused her of it. That's ridiculous. She hadn't even thought anything about this possibly being rape until Regina brought it up. She would never make up a rape story to absolve herself from guilt of her own mistakes. No, I think during the first two episodes of this arc she was genuinely terrified that she may have been raped because of what Regina said.

BUT if she is doing what you implied NOW (avoiding saying it was or wasn't rape so that she can't make Emmett think she cheated), well...yeah, that's exactly what Tank was accusing her of, and its really wrong. I wish, as hard an issue as it is for her, that Bay would just ONCE use the words "consensual" or "non consensual" when talking about this with someone. It may be true that its "complicated," but I think you're right that she does feel strongly on one side, that Tank didn't rape her, and she should admit that.

nailpolishchick2

I personally enjoyed the episode because I had mentioned to Lizzy in the past, I wanted an episode that had the characters dealing with a storm and I got my wish.