BL.Arinna_1982

Great answer, Alex.

PhoenixRising

Thank you, Arinna.

BL.Arinna_1982

Good evening, Alex.

PhoenixRising

Good evening, Arinna.


I wonder where Linda is?

BL.Arinna_1982

I haven't seen her here the whole day.

PhoenixRising

I hope she comes back soon.

LindaL100

Hi guys, sorry I hadn't posted in these past few days I've been really busy with work lately, but I'm back now

Alex:

Well I remember Francois said that his first auditions were actually with Jeremy Irons, and Showtime actually showed footages of his first auditions with Jeremy in a PR video...I'm not sure if he had any more auditions after that or if he had any auditions with Holly. I think there's 2 possibilities, either Francois and Holly never auditioned together, or they did audition together but only the casting director saw their audition together but not Jordan himself...these are the 2 most plausible scenarios to me because of what Francois himself said, based on his interviews, it sounds like Jordan only had issues with his chemistry with Holly when they actually started filming their scenes together. It just doesn't make sense to me if Jordan had complained about their chemistry only when they started filming the series if he had already seen the pair audition together beforehand...so I think they probably either did not audition together, or Jordan didn't see their audition together prior to filming.
And just because 2 actors had their first scenes together in a movie or TV show it does not necessarily mean they had auditioned together...more often than not, many actors & co-stars usually only meet each other for the first time when the actual production starts filming, a lot of the times actors don't really know who their co-stars are going to be until the actual production starts. So it could very well be probable that Francois and Holly never actually auditioned together.

But I do agree with you about Jordan and his conflicting attitude towards his own writing...there were a lot of incestuous sexual and romantic overtones depicted in Cesare and Lucrezia's relationship all over Jordan's own writing even since the beginning in the first season, I mean, the siblings' first ever scenes in the series were with each other and their first ever scene together in the courtyard was already very inappropriately romantic So I think it's quite stupid and very contradictory of Jordan to complain about Francois & Holly's chemistry being too sexual and romantic when that's basically what Jordan had wrote himself, the actors were merely acting out what Jordan had written in the scripts himself, so Jordan shouldn't really fault Francois and Holly for having such awesome chemistry together when he himself had written Cesare & Lu's relationship with so much incestuously romantic overtones, scenes and dialogues. But what I have noticed about Jordan is that he seemed to be a man with many contradictions...at least as far as 'The Borgias' is concerned, he seemed to have contradicted himself in many of his own writing and decisions, and not just regarding Cesare & Lu's relationship, but also his attitude towards certain characters and his views on historical facts. I also find it very silly of Jordan to complain to Francois that there was no solid evidence to prove that Cesare & Lucrezia ever had an incestuous relationship in real-life, and yet 95% of all the writing in this series were works of fiction and contradicted historical facts. It's just ridiculous that Jordan would complain about the lack of evidence to prove the incest in real-life, even though he basically fabricated about 95% of everything else in this series

As for the European Canal+ version 'Borgia', well that version may have had its own share of inconsistencies, but it is still much more historically accurate than the Showtime version. The Showtime version is only very loosely based on the story of the Borgia family in comparison...it's like Jordan only took the very bare basics of the history of the Borgia family and made a largely fictional TV series out of it. Instead of being a historically accurate drama, the Showtime version is more like a fictional TV series that is only very loosely based on the bare minimum of historical facts, it's basically 95% fiction and only 5% historical facts.

BL.Arinna_1982

Heeeeeeeey, Linda! I was re-watching CL scenes lately!

PhoenixRising

Hi, Linda! It's okay, we're just glad to see you back.

I've been really busy with work too, but I'm on my vacation starting Thursday.

I'll answer your post soon, okay?

BL.Arinna_1982

PhoenixRising

Thanks for those gifs, Arinna!

Hi, Linda!

So Francois auditioned with Jeremy first? Thanks for letting us know. So there's no actual footage of his auditions with Holly, if any? I can't believe they'd never have Francois and Holly audition knowing how important that relationship would be to the series, even in its first season. And if it was the casting director and not Jordan, then he's still culpable for not getting a handle on his own show. I'd wanna make sure I knew how all my central cast members interacted with each other. You're talking about the two most important characters other than Rodrigo.

Yes, Jordan can't deny his own writing, regardless of who auditioned with whom. The fact is those scenes were structured exactly as the audience saw them, and even Francois and Holly thought they were full of incestuous subtext. So that's how it would play out regardless of who played the roles.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I think Jordan slowly began to either forget why he developed the series in the first place and the story he wanted to tell, or he just lost interest after three seasons. He's a filmmaker first and foremost, and I don't know if that really translates well to serialized television.

Well, I didn't really watch all of the Canal+ series, so I can't speak for that one. But I didn't like the characterizations, regardless of how much closer it may have been to the history, and John Doman was just horribly miscast as Rodrigo. He talks like a New York City cab driver.

BL.Arinna_1982

I don't think there's any footage of Francois and Holy audition together. The only vid I've watched was with him and Jeremy and it was titled - "Casting Cesare".

PhoenixRising

So they never auditioned together? Wow, then we can only assume that the show got really lucky with them.

I hope Linda returns. Haven't seen her in a while.

BL.Arinna_1982

Yes, I hope she comes back asap.

LindaL100

Hi guys I'm back sorry I haven't been posting here as frequently as I used to, I've been so busy with work lately so I won't be able to post here as often as I did in the past.

Alex:

Well I'm only guessing, but it does seem to me that either Francois & Holly never auditioned together, or they did but Jordan didn't see it and it wasn't filmed...like Arinna mentioned, the only audition video available is the one Francois did with Jeremy Irons, so it was probably the only audition Showtime had filmed for PR purposes.

Anyway, they certainly got very lucky with casting Francois and Holly as Cesare and Lucrezia, we've already discussed so many times before just how amazing and brilliant their chemistry was, and their chemistry together was so natural too the awesome chemistry between Francois & Holly is undoubtedly 1 of the main reasons that made Cesare & Lu's incestuous romance all the more compelling and beautiful of course all the romantic dialogue certainly helped, but I think it's more because of Francois & Holly's amazing chemistry together and their brilliant performances that really made this forbidden lovestory between the siblings so special and epic, and made so many fans fall in love with this couple and sympathize with them and want to support them! Even though we know that incest is forbidden, but because of Francois & Holly's insanely awesome & natural chemistry together and their marvelous performances, combined with so much romantic overtones and storytelling, many fans couldn't help but sympathize with the siblings and wanting them to be happy together even despite that it's incest
I think if Cesare and Lucrezia had been portrayed by different actors, then Cesare & Lu's epic forbidden lovestory probably would not have been the same...look at Mark Ryder and Isolda Dychauk in the European version, while I do think Mark & Isolda had good chemistry together in the European version, but Cesare & Lu's relationship in 'Borgia' was far less compelling and no where near as heartfelt and brilliant as Francois & Holly's lovestory in the Showtime version. Maybe that's because there was much less focus on Cesare & Lu's relationship in 'Borgia', it just didn't seem like the incest storyline was that important in 'Borgia'. In comparison, the incestuous relationship between Cesare & Lu was 1 of the main and most important plotlines in the Showtime version, there was much more focus and emphasis on Cesare & Lu's lovestory in this version in comparison, the incest storyline was just so pivotal in this version that it even ended with Cesare & Lu's romance But aside from the fact that there was much more focus on Cesare & Lu's relationship in this version compared to the European version, I think the chemistry between Francois & Holly was also better than Mark & Isolda's. I think that insanely electrifying and naturally brilliant chemistry between Francois & Holly is really quite rare in showbiz...while I have seen many actors who have good on-screen chemistry together, but Francois & Holly's insane chemistry is really on a whole different level that very few other people could compare!

Arinna: Thanks for the gif