BL.Arinna_1982

That could be a possibility, yeah...

PhoenixRising

You think?

Mignonette

He wrote "The Prince" from prison, Alex. You didn't know? And yes, he wisely avoided commenting on anything Cesar had told him until after he'd died and several years had passed. He knew Cesar as well as anyone outside of his family (and possibly Micheletto) could know him, so he knew what he was capable of, esp. in regard to his sister

Arinna, you're always so funny with your answers to Alex's SBO questions

PhoenixRising

Hi, Lila! Wow, did everyone write a book from prison?

I knew he wrote The Prince, just not from prison. I do know that he knew Cesare very well, and I guess he'd know better than anyone if the rumors about Ces and Lu were true. I still think Vannozza knew, though.

BL.Arinna_1982

I'm here to lift up your mood.

PhoenixRising

Of course you are, Arinna.

Mignonette

I believe both Vanozza and Rodrigo knew IRL, because they were incredibly close to their children and Rodrigo easilly could cover up any evidence and had their backs always. They were all intensely loyal to each other. Baby Giovanni was only one example.

PhoenixRising

Well, I think that Mario Puzo surely thought that Rodrigo knew. According to him, Rodrigo directed it. Yes, Rodrigo could and did cover up a lot of stuff. He sent Lucrezia away to that convent and created that Papal bull declaring that her child was actually the child of Rodrigo and one of his mistresses in order to save her from disgrace. But then Cesare left the child his estate, which... well, you know.

Mignonette

Yes, there was that! Cesar buying a house for Lu (while she's a married woman!) that attaches to his apartments, Sforza running off in fear of his life, Rodrigo and Cesar send Lu to a convent in seclusion, a baby boy born exactly 6 months after she went into the convent and kept hidden until he was 3 years old, then just pops up at the Vatican one day with Cesar saying, "Oh him? Oh yeah, that's my kid by a mistress that I won't name".

Why would Cesar leave his entire estate to a child that wasn't his? He acknowledged his son, Giralamo (born to a mistress), and arranged for him and his other illegitimate child, Camille, to live with Lucrezia in Ferrara. Back then, everything went to the firstborn son. So if Giovanni was his half-brother, as the second bull said, why didn't Giralamo inherit everything? Cesar left all of his children in Lucrezia's care, including Giovanni. She referred to him as her half-brother, but treated him as a son.

Cesar ordered a legal document drawn up making Giovanni his sole heir AND a duke! when the boy was only 3 years old. He could've changed his inheritance to Giralamo, but did not. Why do that all of that for a half-brother, when he had a son? Hmmm maybe because Giralamo wasn't his firstborn son?

Another thing is that Cesar doted on Giovanni. He made sure his other children were well cared for, but treated Giovanni as special. Maybe because of his deep love for his mother?

Personally, I don't need a smoking gun to prove the incest occurred. There's just too much that doesn't add up to come to any other conclusion.

BL.Arinna_1982

Mario Puzo? I have the book!

PhoenixRising

I know you do, Arinna!


Oh yeah, Cesare also bought that house for Lu. He wasn't very subtle, was he, Lila?

Yep, all that stuff does make for a compelling case of "what if?" I'd say there was at least a reasonable chance that the rumors were true given all that other evidence.

OMG, Cesare had his other illegitimate children live with Lucrezia in Ferrara? That does sound really suspicious. And good point about Giralamo.

Yes, I do remember that document. It wasn't a Papal bull, was it? Just a document making Giovanni his heir. Yep, hardly the thing an uncle does. Well, I do think there were quite a few smoking guns, Lila. Especially the gun Cesare used on Lucrezia.

BL.Arinna_1982

You have some interesting mind, Alex...

PhoenixRising

Thanks, Arinna.

BL.Arinna_1982

It was a compliment.

PhoenixRising

Thanks, Arinna.