Pretty Little Liars - "Welcome to the Dollhouse" (5x25) : Episode Discussion #2

t2727 · 04-12-2015, 11:55 AM

5x25: Welcome to the Dollhouse
March 24, 2015 @ 8:00 p.m. Eastern

EPISODE DESCRIPTION:
It’s the beginning of all the answers with the biggest “A” reveal ever (#BigAReveal) in “Welcome to the Dollhouse,” the explosive season finale of ABC Family’s hit original series “Pretty Little Liars.”

“A” has always had fun playing with Aria, Emily, Hanna and Spencer, but now “they” have the biggest game to date in store for the girls. As shocking secrets come to light and the biggest clue to the “A” mystery is revealed, is this one plAydate the Liars can survive?

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t2727 · 04-12-2015, 11:55 AM

Continue on....

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillieBirds (View Post)

I keep changing my views on Charles & it's really annoying me that i'm doing so

i have never stopped believing that he is being controlled by a higher power, after all we do have 2 seasons left and i doubt that they would expose who's in power this early on (imo). Mona was the original A of the show but if there is a higher source of power ie. Big A then she wouldn't of been the person who had been in charge all that time. In 225 she said to Spencer in the car she has a choice of joining the A team- thus proving at that point there was more than one member. If it was Mona leading this team, she would still be high in power. As much as i love Mona i still can't fully trust her. She obviously will always be one step ahead and know more than the others- the same goes for Alison too.

What i would love to know was, what was the relevance in seeing that bonus scene from 5B of Mona and Alison? This is where i think people can sometimes be wrong about Ali.

I believe Shana Fring was never really A. I think using her was very obvious and not only that, she never actually explained anything in her moment of reveal before dying. Her actions could of been just a moment of madness. Shana had a chance of taking Alison down for ages, she was in contact with her all along- although her motive could of been to torture the girls or even working with Ali (if you want to believe the Ali is A theory), i think she was manipulated by Jenna's obsession with revenge. She loved her and unfortunately sometimes you do crazy things for the people you love.

I always hoped for Maya to come back and believed there could be a chance for her return but realistically it wouldn't work. We never saw her body but the police and everyone else did- i'm also sure she would of had a funeral and so forth. I know this show has a habit for bringing people back from the dead but the writers have now focused more of Emily's attention and affection towards Alison and Paige. Maya was crucial in Emily's life to help her grow and become the person she always was, she's actually not needed in the show anymore, imo. (although i did love Maya

) Maya's body was never questioned, even after Ali's (or should i say Bethany's) body disappeared or when Ali came back yet her death at the time was in close connection with Alison's because it was believed that they were killed by the same person.

I love how in depth we go when trying to figure all this out

It's like we're emotionally connected with everyone haha.

**BlondieLeigh** · 04-12-2015, 12:27 PM

tftnt

From the last thread -

I like that most of us agree that Charles is being controlled by a higher power. I'm glad it's not just me that got that impression. I'm pretty solid on what I think is going on with him, my thoughts just keep developing the more I think about it, though. I do think he believes Mona is Alison, though, and that the reason she was abducted and given to him is because uber A doesn't want him to have the real Alison, whether that's because uber A is Alison or because uber A wants to keep Alison where he/she can get to her is yet to be seen. I kind of like both directions though, tbh.

The bonus scene wasn't canon, imo. If it was, they could have slipped it into an episode. I think it was more promo than anything.

Shana wasn't A. Iirc, that was actually confirmed while 5A was still airing. She just knew of the whole A thing (probably through Jenna), and her feelings for Jenna led her to hunt down Alison in an attempt to get rid of her. She was pretty specific about not wanting to hurt the liars, tbh, and A does want to hurt them. I don't think it was Jenna's obsession with revenge though, because imo, she hasn't had one since late season 2, it was Shana's reaction to finding out who Alison really was.

I can't see Maya coming back

Aside from it making no story sense, apparently there were issues with the actor.

Quote:

Mona's mother was literally a ghost in 5B, why couldn't they use her character instead of the likes of Talia who just add extra minutes to the show?

One of the biggest mysteries of 5B, tbh. The writers must be pretty deluded if they honestly think that the audience would rather see irrelevant, dull randoms like Talia, Johnny and Colin over relevant, interesting characters like Leona, Sydney and Lesli.

Quote:

Marlene has also said that most people who watched the show season 1 were so enthralled watching Mona that they missed a lot of clues so I think Big A has been around since the beginning.

They didn't come up with Big A until writing Mona's reveal, so it's not possible for there to be anything in the first two seasons.

BillieBirds · 04-12-2015, 01:58 PM

I like that idea too. He seems too harmless (in a sense) to be so high in power. A is very intelligent and i don't think A would of fell for what Spencer and Mona and the rest of the girls done in the finale. The only think i keep changing my mind about when it comes to him is who he is and what his intentions are. Thats where i like to think my little theory of trying to isolate Alison works, Uber A has her all to him/herself.

That scene was annoying as hell, it had no relevance to the story because they never continued with it. By still making it available to watch just confuses the matter even more- which could be the writers intentions.

Yeh i always thought Shana wasn't A. Jenna was shown to constantly speak of the liars and how she felt, although you're right it was her reaction to what they put Jenna through. She was originally spying on Jenna for Alison but fell in love with her and tried to seek justice. I admit i got that one wrong- i forgot

I wouldn't want Maya back anyway now, Emily's character had evolved too much to bring another ex into the mix. Emily seriously has the most complicated love life on the show :lol

Quote:

One of the biggest mysteries of 5B, tbh. The writers must be pretty deluded if they honestly think that the audience would rather see irrelevant, dull randoms like Talia, Johnny and Colin over relevant, interesting characters like Leona, Sydney and Lesli.

YES MY POINT EXACTLY- wow i didn't even notice the capitals but it's staying (lazy haha). Lesli is such an interesting character, i would love to know more about her- although i did want to kill her when she took the stand

As for Uber A we don't actually know what character they have picked. Just say for example it's Andrew- he has still be there since the start and then they could easily write that in. Marlene did say some stuff about Season 1 recently in regards to Charles- theres a few of the clown clues in Season one (welcome to the funhouse etc- she how that name relates back to the finale's name too) but then she also did say that Big A was thought up in season 3. I don't know if i can trust Marlene though

she's always lying to me haha. I'm starting to taking it personally

I've just remembered there was rumours about issues with Bianca Lawson. Can you remember what they were?

**BlondieLeigh** · 04-12-2015, 02:21 PM

From what we've been told about the person behind all this, there's no way he/she would have fell for that manipulation. Charles is just obsessed with Alison. His intention is to have Alison, and probably not even to hurt her, he probably wants to keep her, like a pet or something

Uber A wants to hurt the liars, and right now, it at least looks like he/she wants to hurt Alison too, I really hope we get answers about that soon.

It was weird, but strictly for promo, imo. If they do go with Alison not being A, I'd like it to be developed in an episode.

Jenna made sure the liars paid for what happened to her at the end of 2A, and she really calmed down after that imo. She would have told Shana everything though, so I think the NY stuff was just Shana's reaction to what Jenna had told her, she thought she was saving Jenna, and saving the liars while doing so.

I don't really like the way Emily's love life is treated, tbh

It's annoying.

I'm not entirely convinced that Lesli wasn't the one who betrayed Mona. She's not important enough to be uber A, but maybe she sold Mona out to uber A.

The Charlemagne stuff from 4A was the clown clue, not the 1B stuff

All I remember is that I was told she didn't get on with the cast and crew all that well

BillieBirds · 04-12-2015, 02:42 PM

I wouldn't blame Charles tbh, i wouldn't mind having Ali/Sasha to myself

On a series note though that would make sense. Just say the theory of them being actually blood related was true, Uber A could be using it to his/her advantage by giving Charles what shim wants.
Ikr. Even if it was for promo purposes, what really does it really prove? I mean people will watch that who may have not seen the actual show and have a complete different idea about whats going on.

Jenna still spoke with about the liars and Alison with so much venom in her words though- i suppose she always will (can't really blame her in some ways).

I don't like it either. It's great she's a lesbian character aswel, we don't get that many on television these days, but she always gets the short end of the stick when it comes to her love life. I've only ever liked Maya and Ali. Hopefully they will settle her down soon

or maybe thats going to be her journey, how strong she has become from being needy around Ali, to lying about herself to then not actually needing anyone about being independent and proud of who she is

Yeh i think she has definitely got more to bring to the story, 6A should hopefully expose that.

Ah i heard that it was season 1, 3 and 4

. Tbh my brain is filled with so much info on the show, i constantly have one of the girls in my dreams

**BlondieLeigh** · 04-12-2015, 02:53 PM

Assuming, as it looks, that Charles is Alison's brother, maybe she found out he existed in her early teens and started visiting him, like Jason visited Ali's twin in the books, iirc. He became attached to her, because she was the only family member he ever saw, and now he's obsessed, he thinks she's his and no one else should have her. Uber A hates the girls, and is playing into Charles' fantasy, and because Charles is severely mentally disturbed, he can't tell that Mona isn't Alison, and this is what makes his story sad.

They would, which makes it really annoying. If they go that way, they can't just decide that's canon, they need Alison to have a moment like Mona had where she told the girls she took out her anger at Ali on them and that was wrong.

They did blind her

I don't think she was vengeful towards them, but asking her to like them is too much. It's telling that Shana didn't feel that the liars needed to be punished.

If they can't settle Emily's love life then she needs to be single for a bit, tbh. Having her jump from one relationship to another is kind of insulting to her and to the audience imo.

They have said she's important, so I'll be disappointed if she's not back in 6A.

They haven't said anything about season 1. MK (or Keegan) outright said before the finale that once you know who it is you should watch again from the start of 3A.

PDH18 · 04-12-2015, 03:41 PM

I don't like the revolving door they've turned Emily's love life into however I think she's eveolved the most and I was really happy with the way she handled Talia. She knew dealing with this women she perceived as just "trying things out" was a step way back for her. Emily has come into her own, IMO

PDH18 · 04-12-2015, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlondieLeigh (View Post)

Assuming, as it looks, that Charles is Alison's brother, maybe she found out he existed in her early teens and started visiting him, like Jason visited Ali's twin in the books, iirc. He became attached to her, because she was the only family member he ever saw, and now he's obsessed, he thinks she's his and no one else should have her. Uber A hates the girls, and is playing into Charles' fantasy, and because Charles is severely mentally disturbed, he can't tell that Mona isn't Alison, and this is what makes his story sad.

They would, which makes it really annoying. If they go that way, they can't just decide that's canon, they need Alison to have a moment like Mona had where she told the girls she took out her anger at Ali on them and that was wrong.

They did blind her

I don't think she was vengeful towards them, but asking her to like them is too much. It's telling that Shana didn't feel that the liars needed to be punished.

If they can't settle Emily's love life then she needs to be single for a bit, tbh. Having her jump from one relationship to another is kind of insulting to her and to the audience imo.

They have said she's important, so I'll be disappointed if she's not back in 6A.

They haven't said anything about season 1. MK (or Keegan) outright said before the finale that once you know who it is you should watch again from the start of 3A.

The weird thing about the Jenny thing is that in the flashbacks it is obvious the girls didn't want to do it. The thing I think they are most responcible for is going with blaming it on Toby - they had time to undo that!

PDH18 · 04-12-2015, 05:10 PM

I keep thinking about all this stuff - smh.

I'm still not convinced Mona isn't part of this. One thing bothers me. Why set up Hannah? The last time Hannah was the brunt of a lot of the punishment was when Mona was doing it. So why now is the storage center in her name, why is she the first to get arrested etc. There has to be a reason Hannah is singled out.

BillieBirds · 04-12-2015, 06:10 PM

I like that idea. I'm re watching season 3 at the moment and i'm noting down anything that i didn't realise before.

I know right. This is what i keep saying about how the writers just seem not really know what they are doing with Alison at the moment. Its very annoying but i just hope they have something planned for her. I'm dying for more Mona and Alison action.

Emily did do the right thing by showing Talia she isn't a push over. She has totally come a long way from originally being the "weakest link" of the gang. I do think it's slightly insulting because not all lesbians are like that

. The programme attracts a large female audience and LGBT audience too, they need to remember that and treat it carefully and not abuse it. I don't see all the other girls switching boyfriends like no tomorrow

.

BillieBirds · 04-12-2015, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDH18 (View Post)

I keep thinking about all this stuff - smh.

I'm still not convinced Mona isn't part of this. One thing bothers me. Why set up Hannah? The last time Hannah was the brunt of a lot of the punishment was when Mona was doing it. So why now is the storage center in her name, why is she the first to get arrested etc. There has to be a reason Hannah is singled out.

I had this massive theory going for years that i though Hanna was connected in the drama a lot more than the others. But now i'm not so sure. I still would like to know why it's always her to see the twins, it was her who Alison told the twin story to, she was the one in Aria's bed who kept staring at the doll from Ali's box, it was her mum who saw one of the twins in the house- i could literally go on. The only reason i'm not so convinced anymore it because she was arrested- if she was involved she would of been a lot smarter with her actions. It still obviously doesn't mean she's not involved with something else. Her and her mum have now been accused of murder...

**BlondieLeigh** · 04-12-2015, 08:41 PM

Quote:

The weird thing about the Jenny thing is that in the flashbacks it is obvious the girls didn't want to do it. The thing I think they are most responcible for is going with blaming it on Toby - they had time to undo that!

Jenna doesn't know they didn't want to do it, and their actions after didn't exactly let her know that. With Toby, they should have came clean, it still bothers me that now, after everything, they still haven't even considered telling the truth so that he no longer has a criminal record.

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Why set up Hannah?

Hanna and Spencer were both set up, imo, because they are the ones that weren't falling at Ali's feet the second she returned. They were questioning her, and to an extent, didn't want her around. Either Ali's uber A, or uber A had a reason for wanting the five of them together that Hanna and Spencer were getting in the way of. I don't think uber A intended for Spencer to be released (probably figured they'd think she's an accessory) when they were led to the Ali/Bethany connection, and when she was, it became harder to get them all together.

Nostalgic Heart · 04-13-2015, 12:25 AM

So is this Charles the original A from the beginning? Where do Mona and Shana fit into it? Or did he just take over after Mona quit? My brain hurts thinking about all of it

PDH18 · 04-13-2015, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillieBirds (View Post)

I had this massive theory going for years that i though Hanna was connected in the drama a lot more than the others. But now i'm not so sure. I still would like to know why it's always her to see the twins, it was her who Alison told the twin story to, she was the one in Aria's bed who kept staring at the doll from Ali's box, it was her mum who saw one of the twins in the house- i could literally go on. The only reason i'm not so convinced anymore it because she was arrested- if she was involved she would of been a lot smarter with her actions. It still obviously doesn't mean she's not involved with something else. Her and her mum have now been accused of murder...

ME TOO!!!

I don't think she knew anything right from the beginning but Hannah has always had her own thoughts about what was going on and she was usually right. Hannah says right in the pilot that she thinks Ali is still alive. I think Ashley is involved in some way also. She tells Hannah that is is "all her fault" and I don't think she meant sleeping with Jason (which apparantly has happened more than once).

How about the fact that she asked the girls to do the blood drive that A got Hannah's blood from. Ashley also has this mamma bear attitude toward Hannah. She is constantly protecting her much like Spencer's family protects Spencer however we know Spencer's families secrets (some of them anyway) and what they've been protecting her from.

Here is my theory on the Marin secrets: Sometimes I wonder if Hannah isn't her dad's biological daughter because of the way he treats her and Ashley. Way back in season 1 we are told that Tom left THEM, not just his wife but Hannah too. Ashley asks barely anything from him when he leaves, hense their money issues. Tom comes back into Hannah's life because Ashley asks him to because Hannah is getting into trouble. He does this twice FOR ASHLEY and the second time he stays for quite a long time I believe becasue he still loves Ashley. However in my theory they are not the perfect little family - there is something between them they can not reconcile - HANNAH. To make it more questionable there is the matter of college money. Why give college money to your step daughter and not to your biological daughter - it makes no sence.

Before this Charles thing came up I was starting to think that Hannah was Ali's twin. They went out of their way to make them look alike in jail and I wouldn't be suprised if Ashley had an affair while she was married to Tom. Even Wilden commented on how much they looked alike.


Fan Forum > Archived Television Shows > Pretty Little Liars > "Welcome to the Dollhouse" (5x25) : Episode Discussion #2