holding my heart

150 THREADS

Lethally Floral

Amazing!

Quick..which thread was your fave?

Arrakis

I don't think Bernie would have been a good choice. He has been an extreme purist who trashed very real gains made by Obama and couldn't even speak intelligently about his own platform. I remember a NY Times interview where he couldn't answer basic questions about existing banking law.

That is your opinion of course. But in my opinion and I have heard him talk as well, he would've made a good president. (I was not a fan of obama). Anyways he didn't become president and likely never will since I doubt he will run for president again. Now the world has to deal with "yuge" trumpet.

~AnastasiaGrey~

Hey how are you doing?

holding my heart

Jesus my life got so much more complicated

Jackbob

I'll add to the Bernie thing. Trump would've embarrassed him during debates. He's also stuck in a different era. He in some cases acts like he just walked out of the 60's.

Beside the chicken in every pot thing he pretty much pushes, and the rich people are evil thing. He has very little substance. His foreign policy was basically him repeating that Hillary voted for the Iraq war and he didn't.

Jackbob

To be honest, he can't answer stuff like that, because he generally has no idea what he's talking about. He thinks with his emotions not his head.

Arrakis

And trump is better??? i don't know if you ever listened to what he says but it's clearly much worse. Don't know why everyone here is bashing bernie. He may not be perfect but clearly better than the complete moron trump and the establishment puppet hillary.

Bc the rich are the source of evil or better the system that enables people and companies to become that rich and powerful that they suck out everything and everyone. What bernie says is right. maybe utopical at this point but right.

Arrakis

Sorry for the double post, but I have to say this here and now, before this derails. We all have very different opinions about politics, liberals believing in the establishments, leftists and rightists against it etc. And that is ok. But right now politics is a field of hate. And we all have a quite good fan relation, plus this board is about hayden and not donald or bernie or hillary. We now all have stated our clear opinions about bernie or trump positive or negative. So let's stop talking about politics before we start to hate each other and destroy the good atmosphere in this forum, for us and for other visitors. I'm not a mod and can't forbid anyone to say their opinion but I would still like to ask everybody to stop talking about politics, religion or and other sensitive current topic relating to hate, bc our talks are not going to change anything about the current situation.

Let's talk about movies, music or whatever. Just something where we can differ in opinion without hate.

Jackbob

I never said Trump was better than anyone.

I simply do not agree with Bernie's economic ideas.


How are they evil? Are there bad rich people? Yes, there sure are. But Bernie acts as if you have a lot of money, it makes you a comic book villain that needs to be destroyed.

Lethally Floral

I agree with this BUT you make a few claims in your second-to-last post that I don't think I can just ignore.

We disagreed with your assessment of Bernie and you decided to turn our disagreement into an endorsement of T when neither one of us made that argument. That was quite a leap. We were only criticizing him because you chose to bring him into the conversation. Otherwse, he was being ignored.

That's fine but I didn't bring up Obama to talk about his successes or failures. I brought him up to explain why it wasn't the 'establishment' that cost Bernie but some of his choices--like criticizing a popular president amongst dems and especially amongst people of color. A majority of minorities belong to the dem party. You don't win the national primary without them. So his Obama criticism hurt him. His immigration vote hurt him and the fact that he had spent decades in white VT without minority outreach hurt him. The fact that he wasn't actually a dem hurt him.

The 'establishment' (who built the infrastructure he wanted to take advantage of which is why he even bothered to run as a dem) didn't like him. No. But they also didn't cost him the election.


Why boo?

Arrakis

I never said bernie would've made a great president, but a better alternative than trump or hillary in my opinion.
As for the rich, no they aren't all evil, but the systems, liberal or conservative capitalism, socialism, fashism, feudalism, pretty much all systems in human history were all based on some kind of elite, that sooner or later always becomes corrupt as history has taught us. Even the best intended elite that only wants to do good turns corrupt due to the power the people give to this elite. We democraticall vote for people to make all major decisions for us. We need a completely new system that is based on enoughself governace without elites but still enough rules to endure fairness. Not really sure what. I think that has to be reflected about a lot. And it's clearly nothing that can be implemented within one legislative period of a president. But maybe within a generation or two or even three. Of course it's a big and difficult task. Like many things in politics, economy & co. What i'm just saying is that if we don't start to think about the world of tomorrow we will never achive anything. I do talk and think a lot about this kind of stuff with other students. We all agree on the fact that we all need to stop putting our destiny into the hands of a few be they a capitalist economical establishments with ties to the politicians in power or socialist/fashist party based establishments, but actually decide in their own destiny only bound by a set of rules ensuring prosperity snd equality for all while still keeping private property. Also the should be some kind of federal earth state where the current national states have the authority of e.g. a state like california within the us while the world government has the authority the Us or other states have now. Also this state would need a lot of direct democracy. And an ethical commision with non-political members that neutrally fact-check all kind of politicians opinions to prevent propaganda that would manipulate the legislative power of the people. I also know that auch an ethical commision could be misused under certain circumstances. Again this is at this point just simple ideas and I know it's still very utopic. Not pretending otherwise. Maybe one day i go into politics in some form or way. I don't know. Have no real plan yet lol. Right now i should probably more focus on my stdies I'm also not angry if you think I'm weird lol.

Jackbob

So...LG. You're proposing a world government? No thank you. I believe America should run itself. Now I do not know where you're from. But I believe in freedom. I do not feel that what America does should be dictated by bureaucrats in Europe, who would never in a million years have the best interest of America in their concerns.

In a situation like that, people from across the planet could be telling 100's of millions people how they can live their lives. No thank you.

Lethally Floral

No, but you said good. And then accused us of making arguments we didn't make. And I want to move on now because I actually would make the case for Hillary but I don't want to fill this thread up with specific political talk either. I think your second paragraph is far more interesting to me as an abstract discussion.

But who would enforce these rules?

What you're proposing is a good thought exercise but it is utopic because it ignores the diversity of this planet. Not just in terms of color or religion but in terms of personality.

It's not about systems of government, religions or elites. It's about humanity. Even though you, me and Jackbob have differing political opinions, we could probably agree to live like that. But then there are those who like to be told they're superior to other races, who want to follow leaders that tell them what to do.

We have independent fact checkers but people will ignore them if they think they can get more money. People will ignore facts if they conflict with their worldview.

The problem with the self-governing thing is that it relies on all that is good in humanity and ignores all of what is bad about humanity. So your dilemma isn't going to be about a few political cycles. It's going to be about dealing with the aspects of humanity that have been around since Adam and Eve took a bite of the apple.

Arrakis

I have never said, that america should be run by europe lol. Also don't understand your anti-europe stance. Anyways what I meant is a world state build like the united states or modern germany or italy or many other states. The american colonies could've very well said we all go our own way or at least tried. A democratic world government is the only way to ensure world piece. Wheter it be an utopic or dystopic state I don't know, but one day it will come for sure unless we have destroyed ourselves before which is very well possible given our lack of intelligence and compassion. Also we need to stop thinking as nations but as one human people. Given all the pollution, environmental destruction, climate change, farmland degradation, desertification, diseases, population increase, wars, hate it is just a matter of time until our planet will be mostly inhabitable. And those are inevitable facts, unless we all work together to save our planet. There is still time for sure.

As I have said it won't be easy. The rules would have to be enforced by everyone. But as i said this is not like something that can be done in a few years, decades or maybe even cnturies. I am sure such a form of self governance bound by rules will work one day, but not for us. I think only a humanity that is smarter (using more of their brain capacity whcih currently just lies around 10-11 %) will be able to actually have enough discipline and reason for such a world. But as you say it's a dilemma that is around as long as humans build communities. Btw I think this forum is not the right place to tell you my idea in every signle detail.

On another note, a way more current note, did you know donald trump actually has or had a collection of all adolf hitler speeches he apparently used for inspiration in the 90s. So the trump hitler comparison that the right winged nutters don't want you to talk about, is actually not that farfetched. (not comparing nazi-germany to te US just the two persons). http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/2...-marie-brenner