msstock87

Hyde did need a girl that was deeper and I think his love for Jackie surprised him.

MistyMountainHop

Me, too. For more than one reason:

First, of course, that he fell in love with a girl.

Second, that Jackie is the girl he fell in love with.

Third, that Jackie turned out to be more complex than he'd thought possible (so FIE on the S7 writers for trying to steal that from her). <--- An example of this is in "What Is and What Should Never Be" (503). Hyde realizes he's listening to Jackie.

JACKIE: So, did you tell Michael yet?
HYDE: Oh. Yeah, well, I was gonna, but, you know, the timing just didn't seem right.
JACKIE: Oh, I understand. I mean, it's kind of like setting your hair. If you don't wait long enough, it's totally flat and blah like Donna's. But if you wait just the right amount of time, then it's perfect -- like mine. ... Steven, are you even listening to me?
HYDE: God help me, I am.

At first glance, Jackie's dialogue seems superficial and egotistical, and there is a touch of egotism. But Jackie's using an analogy to show both her understanding of and compassion toward Hyde's actions.

Yes, Jackie is vain, but she's also a loving being. And just like in "Jackie Bags Hyde," she offers in ep 503 compassion encrusted with her vanity ( ), but it's something Hyde's able to see past.

msstock87

That is such a great example Lisa. They had the best growth in season 5, and I wish we continued to see it.

MistyMountainHop

Thank you, Colleen!

Yeah, the complexity (and art) of the writing began to go at the end of S5. Jackie's "Get off my boyfriend!" slip was an organic piece of characterization that had several layers. Hyde sleeping with the nurse was character-manipulation -- and the writers knew it. That's why they had Roy asking him if he'd talked to Jackie about what he saw on the Pinciottis' couch. Hyde says no, that he's done with talking.

The writers had to negate that real!Hyde would have asked Jackie and Kelso what was going on -- not storm out and pull that passive-aggressive move. He would've been pissed, and he wouldn't have believed Kelso's explanation about Fez's sex-dream, but they would've tracked Fez down together, and Fez would've admitted it, and Hyde and Jackie never would've broken up again.

Aaaaand maybe Hyde would've learned something about trusting Jackie.

msstock87

Lisa, I would hire you to rewrite and fix the parts of the show that need fixing.

alyak0807

So would I.

MistyMountainHop

You gals...

From here on in, the comics will be doing that, so that's something.

I, for one, don't accept as canon some of the things we saw in "Class Picture". I don't believe Jackie and Kelso knew each other so early. I think Jackie entered Point Place High in ninth grade and noticed Kelso then. She probably had a crush on him for a year, and I bet she asked him out.

That being said, Jackie must've observed Kelso in his "natural element" -- i.e. with his friends. I wonder what her first thoughts were about Eric and Hyde. Clearly, she didn't find Hyde unattractive ("The Best Christmas Ever"). But she didn't consider him an option because of his reputation -- being poor, etc.

msstock87

Some of the things we saw in "Class Picture" don't make sense, but I still enjoy the episode.

MistyMountainHop

Oh, yeah. I enjoy "Class Picture," too, but I don't accept a lot of the flashbacks as canon. They conflict too much with info we'd gotten previously.

Jackie must have gossiped to her friends about Kelso's friends once she and Kelso were going out. And some of her friends must've found Hyde attractive. I could see Jackie being a bit possessive of Hyde and badmouthing him -- in an attempt to make her friends view him as unattractive.

msstock87

I can totally see Jackie doing that too. I think she always found him attractive, even if she didn't want to admit it.

MistyMountainHop

I gotta write that fic, Colleen. I want to write a scene where Jackie gossips with her friends about Hyde, Kelso, Eric, etc.

---

I like how Jackie's supposed to kiss Hyde "on the cheek" according to the script for "Kelso's Serenade" ...



But she actually kisses him on the lips:



Oh, the Zenniness couldn't be denied. An act that was supposed to be symbolic of platonic gratitude (and easily forgotten) got turned into an act revealing that a deeper connection had been made between the two of them. Unlike in the Lincoln, Hyde doesn't act shocked and horrified by the touch of Jackie's lips. He closes his eyes and more than begrudgingly accepts the contact. He's acknowledging and enjoying the new connection he has with Jackie -- maybe in spite of himself, maybe without realizing how connected he's begun to feel with her.

ana_cmoraes

Hey everyone... after a long time without coming here.. I am back!

I never gave up on being a zennie... I was just too busy to comeback here.. =(
but i miss talking about Zen with you guys and venting on season 8! hahaha!

Now.. back to what's important!!
loved that info Lisa!! I've always loved that scene, but i've never kneew she was actally supposed to kiss him on the cheek! *-*

msstock87

Welcome back!

Lisa, is it bad that I stared at that picture for the longest time. I love the look on Hyde's face.

alyak0807

That episode just came on tv Monday night. That's such a cool bit of information you've found Lisa.

MistyMountainHop

Welcome back, Ana! It's nice to see you here.

Colleen, I love Hyde's face in that moment, too. No shock or horror there.

Kayla, it's a testament to MK and DM's own chemistry -- whether they were aware of it or not. Jackie and Hyde lived through them, and when given room, their connection came through every particle.