Booty Shaker :rotfl: :rotfl:

Booty Shaker, you know how I feel about Smokey. He might cheat on me with the ladies on the island but he'll always have a home with me. :love:

Anywho, before I go to sleep... and because I'm beginning to love these discussion threads.

If the island had been exerting a subtle force in all the characters lives and was suddenly nuked in the 70's, there would be no necessary reason for every character to have ended up on the plane. Also, if the island is destroyed before Ben takes over the Others, then I would presume Widmore is still on the island, which would mean he dies in the nuclear blast that sinks the island. So in the new timeline, would there be no Penny? If Eloise was still on the island then Daniel would be gone too, right? It would seem that Juliet hitting the bomb is the moment when the universes diverge. In one, the bomb blast destroys the island while in the other, the blast triggers a time skip that sends them back to '07 and the original timeline is completed. Doesn't this have to happen to avoid a paradox? If there was only one timeline in which the island is destroyed, then that would prevent Oceanic 815 from crashing. If Oceanic 815 never crashes then they never go back in time and never set off the nuke and the island is not destroyed.

Going back to Juliet; at exactly the same moment that she hit the bomb the island might've done another time jump, that had been hopping them around from time to time. This wasn't the result of anything from the bomb, but because the island was already randomly skipping them through time -- and what this means is that none of them survived the bomb blast, as they were skipped into a different time precisely as it was going off. Remember, Juliet/Jin/Sawyer/Miles were the ones trapped in the time jumping, and they were in the 70s for lord knows how many years, not because they cured the jumps but because the island just happened to have left them there for years (remember Faraday telling them there was no telling how long they might be in any one time line?). When Jack, Kate, Sayid, and Hurley jumped back into the 70's, that was the island placing them on the same time jump as Sawyer & the gang. They weren't "in" the 70s per say, but they were in the same time plane as their friends. For some reason, Sun and Lapidus didn't get dumped in with them, so when the next jump finally came, it took all of them along with those who were already stuck in the jumps, but hadn't experienced them for years.

So maybe, what this means is not exactly that there are alternate timelines where Juliet did and didn't set off the bomb, technically there are, but one of the timelines is simply one in which they never attempted it, but rather that the Losties remained in their own reality while creating a branching-off reality in which they exist in a parallel universe. So Jack and Faraday were right -- they just didn't keep in mind that it wasn't as though their consciousnesses would simply "jump over" to their alt-timeline bodies. If not for the time jump at precisely the right moment, they all would simply have died. That would have been the end of THEIR lives. The alt Losties would go on landing in LA, none the wiser to the lives they might have lived and our Losties would simply be dead from the nuclear blast.

This leaves at least one glaring loose end I can think of: why would Richard say he watched them all die?

:lmao: Okay, so now I'm arguing with myself as I progress deeper into my thoughts. Maybe it's the lack of sleep talking, or maybe I need to be taken to THE hospital. You know, the one where Hurley was chillaxin' for a while. Perhaps I'll come back with another wild and wacky theory. Now I seriously can't wait for the next episode to air.

Oh crap... I have more but I'm falling asleep... WHAT SHOULD I DO?!!? zz.....

I never thought of that... I assumed that they went back to 2007 because the bomb went off. But I now realize that doesn't make any sense. :lol: So they just happened to skip through time seconds before Juliet detonated the bomb... our losties went to 2007 and the bomb created this sideways timeline where the plane never crashed and the island is under water. Woah.

I forgot about that, ahh that's going to bother me now lol.

^^ :nod:

Since I'm fully awake and very irritated at some things that have occurred recently, not to mention remaining VERY diplomatic about the issue... I'll continue my observations and theories of the episodes that have aired.

One interesting thing that I noticed was when Cindy tells the group at the temple that she recognizes Jack, Kate, Jin and Hurley because they were on the first flight, the Oceanic flight. So, does that mean that they are aware of the Ajira flight, but not aware that its how Jack, Kate and Hurley got back or is it that Oceanic landed safely so that now the parallel universe is really just the past and the present is on the island?

(And here I am just arguing with myself.)

But then remember back when they were building a runway for no reason. Well, I guess we found that reason. The Ajira flight must've landed one night before the '77 crew and the '77 crew seemed to have arrived within 1 hour after Jacob was killed. The flare at the end of the LA X part 2 syncs up Locke's exposure as being not Locke with Sayid's awake from death. Cindy's comment was important because Jack, Kate, Jin, Hurley were in the mid section where they were not on the list whereas Cindy and some other tail passengers were. So it makes total sense that the Samurai guy would order them to die and Cindy wouldn't object as she is an "other" now.

Desmond says; that "the universe has a way of course correcting." Remember that no matter how many times he saved Charlie's life, the universe kept coming up with new ways to kill him because that was his destiny. So yes, the bomb worked, and they all avoided this plane crash, in '04, but now somehow the universe will find a new way to bring them all to the island & raise the island like Moses parted the red sea, then everything will continue on as before. Remember that the non-reset timeline is taking place in '07 and the reset timeline is taking place in '04. That gives them 3 years to get to the island and get back on course. If the island does come out of the water, that would explain why the barracks looked so crappy when Sun and Lapidus went back there. Anyway, I think this course correcting is already getting underway, with Kate in the same cab as Claire and Jack giving Locke his card, they're all coming back together and one way or another they'll eventually get to the island.

Now, up until this episode, Ben is the only character to have been healed by the temple, at least that I'm aware of. The obvious parallels are that Sayid is the one that shot Ben, which made his trip to the temple necessary. Ben's father is the one that shot Sayid. Ben is also the only one to kill an "immortal." Fake Locke used Ben as a proxy to kill Jacob. Could FLocke have used anyone else? what made Ben so special? Jacob instructs Hurley to bring Sayid to the temple, to go through the same process that Ben theoretically did. Is Jacob setting up his own Assassin? His own proxy killer? Whatever happened to Ben&Sayid, does it let them strike down these "Immortals"? Also, supposedly Sayid is possessed by "something", who says Ben isn't possessed by the same thing?

Was Hurley brought back to the island because Jacob knew he was going to die and needed Hurley there to communicate? This plan has obviously been a long time in the works, moving the pawns around. That's a pretty specific reason/destiny for Hugo and could everyone else's destiny be as basic as that? So say that MIB dies, Jacob takes him out. Maybe this isn't about a rebirth for Jacob, but a karmic balance. I maybe the only one that thinks Jack will be the new Jacob and Sawyer the new MIB. Certainly gave Sawyer some hints of motivation in the premiere, there were lots of framing him in black in this episode and in the premier, obvious angst and drama aside, it could be a clue.

The Losties were foolish to think that changing history so that they never landed would only effect them. It has a butterfly effect on the entire world. Life is similar, but also slightly different. For example, Hurley never finds out the numbers, so now he is lucky instead of cursed. If this is changed, why can't anything else be different? I think what we're going to come to find is, that despite this new reality, the Oceanic folks will still find themselves inexplicably drawn together. We already saw evidence of this in the episode. So, despite their altered circumstances and slight differences from the people we knew in seasons 1-5, they are destined to come together. Is that Jacob's doing? Fate? Time course-correcting? Who knows? But I suspect that the two universes will resolve themselves by season's end, and somebody in the off island time will help bring them all together again to serve their purpose.

Ultimate showdown for me will be when Jacob will inherit Locke's dead body. Locke will then be fighting himself, as the Nemesis has also morphed into Locke, which is what Locke really has been doing all along.

i just had a thoght...

what if MIB is the good guy?

i mean, he took the form of Jacks father is se 1, and helped him find water for everyone. i think that was on purpose . ..so maby we were rong all along?

does anyone realte?

I was looking for some stuff and I came across another set of questions, I swear to everyone that is probably fed up with my long ass posts that this will be my final one. So just put up with me for a few more lines.

Two alternate world's might make sense. Remember Zach and Emma? The two kids who were kidnapped in... the 1st or 2nd season, how would they be older children and still be on the island? Also, Cindy is now a part of the Temple Others and is the one to say, "They were on the first flight" when Jack & Co. show up at the temple. Before dying, Jacob says "they're coming," which might be an implication that he knows that Jack & Co. were returning to the present day reality where the crash of the Oceanic as well as everything we've seen in all the other seasons has occured.

&this concludes my brain actually being used for something other than a headache.

(Wasn't as long as I thought it would be.)

I do believe Jacob wasn't all good and MIB isn't all evil. It's never that black and white on LOST.

Giving a bad or gray twist to Jacob's action is something I can handle. But giving MiB's actions a good or "better than Jacob" twist would be a very tricky territory.

Jacob has never been shown actually killing anyone to achieve whatever goal he has. On the other hand, MiB actually took the lives of innocent people.
The pilot, what did he ever do. Eko, OK, he was a killer before he came to the island, but on the island he was a changed man.
Then we have him impersonating John and talking **** about him. I mean, when has Jacob ever done anything which even comes close to this?

Agree!!

And I actually start to thing Jacob might be the tyrant in the story*.

And if not, there has to be no good and evil necessarily, just 2 sides 2 different interests. Talked about it in MIB and Jacob's thread not to repeat again.... Just this: Jacob and his touch, blessing, protection, curse or infection? We haven't seen MIB turning into Smokey anyway, have been suggested that, but transformation, I haven't seen :lol: I am not taking for granted this Jacob-light-good side, MIB-dark.evil side. I just don't buy that simplicity anymore. But again, there are threads to discuss long about it so sorry just needed to reply, and sorry for the next too, and no ofense eragon please!!!


* Quoting some interesting stuff I read:

- He seems to advocate free will in the moments before his death ("You have a choice Ben...") yet he seems, via his touch, to be able to draw the characters to the Island, ripping them from their life, their families and bringing them to a turbulent and unstable Island where many of them have suffered greatly.

- Did Jacob know of Ben's actions in his name? The genocide of the Dharma Imitative, the effective kidnap of Juliet and other scientists, the killing of Mr Keamy by Ben (and Richard's hand in all the above). Was Jacob willing to turn a blind eye in order to secure the future safety of the island?

- Richard (...) chains he speaks of could represent Jacob's hold over him (...) Whenever he speaks of Jacob seems to do so in fear or great reverence of him. He refuses to let Ben, the leader of the Others for many years, meet the great man himself and, even after the 'Good Guys', led by Laana prove their alliance to him, he still refuses to grant them an audience with him. He is either a man who takes his work very seriously, or does so out of fear for his master.



Could post the whole article in Jacob's thread if someone is intertested ;)

Awesome Sawyer/Kate scene at the dock.