[Eidolon14]

Tim Minear, executive producer of Wonderfalls, has spoken out twice since the cancellation of his show publically. The Save Wonderfalls campaign got him a spot on KROQ (link) and he also had an interview with the Succubus Club (link) prior to that.

[Mariael311]

Thanks for the links!

Damn, cheap computer at work...can't open them though. Now I have to wait to get home to hear it! [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

[Raja]

Thanks. Loved both interviews.

[Eidolon14]

Not a problem. Good to know you enjoyed that. Minear's a funny man.

[BepperGirl]

Can someone make a transcript? My dad doesn't like me listening/watching stream media b/c it screws up the computer.

Gaby

[out4awalk]

Could somebody post a Reader's Digest version of what he had to say? Can't access the links for whatever reason.

Much appreciated in advance. Love the show and hope there's new life somewhere out there.

[UnsilentMajorty]

This is a VERY interesting and VERY TELLING interview that gives insight to how network TV is currently being run (thanks to reality crap) and exactly why WF's failed (thanks to FUX crap and their inept marketing).

Tim is the only person in this biz that I have heard publically say, in all seriousness, that reality TV may in fact put scripted television and those who work in it "out to pasture"... At least on network TV as there is (at least at this time) always cable TV with HBO, Showtime, etc.

We talked about TV being a business before on another thread and why reality TV is so popular right now (becuse it is easier and cheaper to produce than scripted dramas)...

But what Tim said shocked me even more in that he said (I'm paraphrasing) remember how X-Files and similar shows only a decade ago would be allowed to gain their audiences to see if they were able to stick around once that audience was found? Those days are gone forever because A) Networks do not care about loyalty and building loyal fans, or more imporantly, a FAN IDENTITY -- FOX used to be the network with all the "cutting edge, quirky shows" like X-Files, Space: Above and Beyond, Millennium, etc., and that B) the really scary part about this means there will be NO place for the next X-Files to actually come from as far as network TV is concerned.

What we have now is pretty much it: Reality TV and scripted cop shows that managed to get in right before reality TV hit it big like CSI, NYPD Blue and a few other "left over" hold outs like ER.

That is *****ing scary... And sad, more to the point.

That bothered me more than anything else he said in the interview (which was pretty fun to listen to since Tim is a pretty funny guy) because he acknowledged something fans on this board have always joked and "danced around" and that is if reality TV keeps going, there won't be any good, scripted dramas on network TV anymore because they just won't have a chance to find their audiences... But he means this in all seriousness which is very disturbing.

He also shed light, indirectly, on why Angel was probably canceled and that is that the TV world -- In this case, the FUX network -- Is NOT run by Rupert Murdock and bunch of suits sitting around some huge table in a board room somewhere with the flow charts of the nightly Nielsen ratings and a big TV schedule on a wall as one might think.

It's run like a multinational with little divisions that handle dramas, reality TV, news, etc... And currently, reality TV is the "big kid" on the block and thus, commands what goes where and when they air it.

He gave a perfect example: If he wanted to request WF be moved to Monday night -- a night he thought would have been much better -- He would be flat out denied because that is the "prime real estate" that the reality TV people "deserve" since their division is currently bringing in the ratings and thus why whomever is "hot" at the moment controls what we see (at least on FUX).

Angel wasn't cancled because of a reality show... But this is still relevant because in this climate, Angel was a ripe target FOR it to be canceled because it IS a scripted drama. That was Tim's point... Just like Wonderfalls ultimately was killed in favor of: The Swan [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

He also went into a bit more about the episodes that we never saw and gave interesting backgrond info. on Caroline in that she's actually NOT a native English speaker... But you can't tell that from her performances and other fun stuff.

But again, not to be morose, but I thought the biggest -- and to some degree -- The more important aspects he brought to light about why reality TV is so hot right now is something we genre fans -- and that is exactly who Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Wonderfalls, etc. fans are -- NEED to be worried about in the general sense because what he/it (the industry) is obestnsibly saying is that unless reality TV dies down (and unfortunately, there is NO sign of that) what we have now is ALL we are going to have for years to come... Which I find unacceptable from a personal stand point because I can not stand this reality crap that is bieng shoved down our throats like we're "supposed to like it because it's the only thing on".

Please...

That's not (a) choice in any way shape or form.

That's being force-fed something because guess what? Our only alternative will be premium cable for shows like WFs... And not everyone can afford that, let alone basic cable... So that leaves us with the ultimate choice: Just switching the TV off altogether.

[**Carrie**]

thank you for that! i don't have sound capabilities and was really interested to know what was said. much appreciated.

[out4awalk]

Ditto. Thanks a ton for that.

Really telling stuff and pretty damn depressing for those of us who enjoy smart, challenging programming that works in season-long arcs.

Execs have to realize how short-sighted this is. Seriously, what will be on in syndication five years from now? No way this reality garbage is going to sell in syndication.

The worst part about this is that it sounds like writers such as Minear might be getting fed up with the process, throw up their hands and move on to other ventures.

That giant sucking sound is the 2004-05 television schedule.

[Darbi]

UnsilentMajority, thanks for that break down. Very informative.

It is a very sad day when "unreality t.v" has taken over scripted, thought out series like Wonderfalls or Angel. Don't get me wrong I've tuned into several so-called reality shows to enjoy them for the moment. But...like all those shows...they lose their charm after a while.

I guess it's hard for me as a some what reasonable person to believe the network heads can't see beyond their own noses and see that scripted shows do still have a place in viewers minds and hearts. And we deserve quality television. Wonderfalls was definitely one of those shows.

Which brings me to this point. If not one of the networks hopefully picking up this show....why not say a cable outlet? Showtime or HBO?...talk about a creative outlet for a show like Wonderfalls.

Oh well...one can only hope.

[UnsilentMajorty]

You are all very welcome.

I'll go into even more detail and use Out4awalk's questions as a guide:

Thanks a ton for that. Really telling stuff and pretty damn depressing for those of us who enjoy smart, challenging programming that works in season-long arcs.

Tim also said that is a major problem and why now a lot of TV series that are destined for network stations are now being written like mid-season replacements with ONLY 13 episodes a piece.

That was unheard of just five years ago.

Execs have to realize how short-sighted this is. Seriously, what will be on in syndication five years from now? No way this reality garbage is going to sell in syndication.

Tim didn't comment on this, but I will thow my own two cents in:

The fact is, the networks don't care (duh!) and are only focused on the short term gains because if you have something like "American Idol" that supposedly brings in 22 million viewers IN ONE NIGHT, you don't need anything to into syndication because the revenues that they can charge advertisers for time during an AI show are about the same as a Super Bowl add... For ONE night.

This is what is driving networks to find the next reality hit and why there are just too damn many of these shows -- Most of them crappy knock-offs that, as you said, DON'T have any replay value beyond the current year -- But it is a gamble the industry is willing to take because if they do hit it big with something like Survivor or Who Wants to Be A Millionaire? they can make back more money in the short time it airs than they would three or four years in syndication.

It's an insane way to look at it... But also (not to go off on a political tangent) what this country (the U.S.) is famous for, now more than ever, and it is both sickening and frightening considering what is happening to this country on a number of levels that only re-inforce this idea (short term thinking for an instant payoff versus the prolonged effects of a life long investment).

The worst part about this is that it sounds like writers such as Minear might be getting fed up with the process, throw up their hands and move on to other ventures.

What was interesting is that, surprisingly, Tim does NOT hate reality TV. He even said that some of the shows -- He named Survivor -- Have as much drama as an hour of scripted TV.

That is his opinion and more importantly, he was stating that as much as a lot of people hate reality TV, they shouldn't just hate it as a genre -- like people hate sci-fi and fantasy and think it's "stupid" or "lame" because that's doing the same thing to reality TV that he had to endure with X-Files, Firefly and now WFs.

I agree with his point... And I will admit that I do watch a few reality shows... BUT I watch them in moderation and I know -- KNOW -- For a fact they are scripted and DON'T perceive them as so-called reality shows. I watch "Newlyweds" with Nick Lahey and Jessica Simpson... But Nick and Jessica have publically stated what they do on the show is an act and NOT who they really are as people to some extent.

I also watch the Real World on MTV (I have for 14 years since season one)... But again, it is becoming more and more obvious that this show is also scripted so I look at it with that perspective.

I'm also not obsessed with these shows like a lot of people become. Too many people become obsessed with who will be voted off Survivor every Wednesday night, or who will be fired on The Apprentice to the point it is ridiculous and immature (to be blunt).

Moderation is the key and also what Tim was trying to express as well.

That giant sucking sound is the 2004-05 television schedule.

I can't remember if Tim said it, or I read it somewhre, but FUX deperately wants to have at least four to five, top quality scripted dramas (along the lines of The O.C.) on the air by next fall so they can say they aren't the "reality network" as they are now known as.

While I could personally care less about FUX... What they are doing may actually be a sign of hope for fans of scripted dramas like ourselves in that at least they are acknowledging where they are failing in what Tim referred to about establishing a FAN IDENTITY in that everyone now thinks of FOX as a reality TV network and ONLY a reality TV network.

What was also interesting is that he specifically commented on why Tru Calling is still on the air when if all things were equal, that would have been canceled as fast as WF had beeen since TC only gets marginally better ratings than WF did its entire run.

He said that the only reason TC has survived this long is because not only of Eliza Dushku's popularity -- which helps re-establish FOX as a "young, hip, in-the-know" network -- But also because it's popular among its coveted demographic (males 18-49 or something like that). This is the ONLY reason he said it is still on.

Wondefalls had a TERRIBLE time getting the FEMALE demographic, ironically, because the way Jaye was written, she is every guys fantasy girlfriend (snarky; sexy; vulnerable and loves to drink)... But she wasn't as likeable as every girls "best friend"

(Consequently, this is also the story behind "Karma Chemelon" being number 11, but written and aired number two; They tested the show with a few episodes before CK, and none of the females understood why Jaye was such a loser, so he wrote CK to make it perfectly clear it was HER choice and the whole Gen X/Gen Y apathy vibe was cleared up BEFORE the series went on).

I thought that was very telling as well.

He doesn't blame Tod Holland or Bryan Fuller either for this shortcoming. Something like WF is very hard to nail down and he credits the director who did the pilot and almost ALL of the episodes (seen; unseen) as the real force in getting WF's to the place where a lot of fans -- male and female -- Really love the show.

When he (Tim) got the script in L.A. before the show was picked up for its short-lived run, he was very hesitant as to how this show would come off on screen given Jaye's outlook and cynical attitude... But again, the director (can't remember his name) literally filmed the script that Tim was given as Exec Producer and that is when he knew the show would be a hit.

Is Tim Minear pissed at FOX and network TV?

Surprisingly, no.

All he blames is FOX's inept handling of the marketing and the fact they wanted "Dawson's Creek" and he gave them "Ally McBeal in her 20s" when he made it perfectly clear that WF is a hard show to nail down in one or two sentences (high concept), but that is how network TV and the entertianment biz works.

In a related topic, he said this is exactly why Sapranos, Sex in the City, Oz and a ton of other cable shows are a better place for scripted dramas:

1) They are safe.

Meaning, they aren't going to get canned after one or two episodes. They may only have 10 or 13 episodes per season... But audiences that get attached to them are GUARANTEED they will see all 13 of those episodes and are thus, more WILLING to become attached to the stories and characters than in current network TV right now.

2) Cable Shows aren't trying to sell products, or even get ratings like network shows. The only thing a cable show is selling is... The cable network itself.

Have you ever noticed that they space the seasons of Sopranos, Sex and the City, et al. between the time your yearly subscription runs out and when it's time to renew your premium channles?

That's not a coincidence, folks [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Again, Tim's point is that the fate of the show is so secure that it HAS to air to keep subscriptions up, even if at the end, only two people are watching, but two million have renewed their subscriptions to HBO (as an extreme example of course).

He also commented... How many of us, regardless if we have premium cable or not, DON'T know who the Sopranos are?

Compare that to how many people who know what Buffy the Vampire Slayer is and what Angel is... Given the fact they are supposedly on a broader network system.

Again, very telling and has everything to do with marketing and how the business model for cable is more friendly to scripted dramas than reality TV...

Which, from a personal stand point, network TV is eventually going to have to go back to because like most of you... I just can not see how they can survive on reality bull***** for the next five to ten years.

Even if the Nielsen system says everyone loves reality TV -- And I personally think that the Nielsen's LIE (or the networks lie about the results) or are on the take to falsify numbers to share in the kickbacks from advertisers -- The biggest flaw in the Nielsen system is the fact that it DOESN'T refelct reality and if everone who doesn't have a Neilsen box is watching Wonferfalls on HBO... Something WILL have to change in the exec's pea-brained heads when they realize the reality -- no pun intended -- Of what is really going on.