[clueless01]

I felt as if the Parents storylines were a bit boring, Will's cop plots especially watching it the first time around.

I've probably become more critical upon rewatching because I now see them as a waste of precious limited JoA scenes.

[Just Peachy.]

I couldn't agree more.

I think they were trying to attarct the older viewers with the parent storyline or make use of Joe and Mary as actors, but I think they overlooked Amber, Chris, Michael, Jason and Becky as amazing young actors who could carry the show.

[Gabriela]

I agree about about the demographics definitely playing a role in the parent storyline....and I think it did work a bit because my parents actually got me into the show, and I know they liked some of the banter between Will and Helen, but they also really loved Joan's character and all her sarcasm It makes me wonder how the show would have done if they hadn't focused so much on Will and Helen....

[Just Peachy.]

That's good to know.

I tend to think that if it was more balanced then the show would of been stronger.

I think all the episodes were good wnd there were some amazing episodes. but I think they could of done better.

Saying that, I think the network has a lot to do with this. I was watching the bonus features for a show called Blossom (it aired in the early 90s) and they were saying that even at that time the networks wanted the lead to have blonde hair and blue eyes etc. The creator really had to fight hard for the actors he wanted.

I think to some extent that this happens today as I know we were talking about it in the Compare Thread. I've really noticed the huge change in shows to have characters who fit a certain image.

[shadowcrawler05]

That was my absolute favorite part of this show. All of the characters, especially the teenagers, actually looked like real people that you would see as a cop or teacher or high school students. They were all fairly attractive in that way that normal people are attractive. No one on that show was supermodel beautiful (except maybe a couple of the G-d avatars, but that doesn't count because it's G-d) and it really brought it down to earth. Unfortunately, it probably didn't help them in the ratings department.

I didn't mind Will and Helen's storyline so much, because they were fairly realistic as a couple dealing with the aftermath of a tragic accident involving one of their kids. I did hate it in the second season, though, with the whole Lucy/lawsuit/keeping secrets/Helen coming thisclose to hooking up with an old boyfriend stuff.

[Gabriela]

Originally Posted by Just Peachy. (View Post) Saying that, I think the network has a lot to do with this. I was watching the bonus features for a show called Blossom (it aired in the early 90s) and they were saying that even at that time the networks wanted the lead to have blonde hair and blue eyes etc. The creator really had to fight hard for the actors he wanted.

I loved Blossom!! "Whoa!" I didn't know they wanted her to have a California blonde look....I'm glad they didn't do that because it was much more relatable with the actress they had!

I agree shadowcrawler05 that the actors were very normal and that made them so much more interesting and nice to watch

Looking back, I think the writers and maybe the network were almost scared of straying too far from the mold and that's when we saw in second season where the show started to turn more toward the high school drama (adam cheating on joan, etc). It seemed like they were scared to deal too much with God until perhaps towards the end when they knew getting the ax was a real possibilty, then they brought in the devil storyline with Ryan.

[shadowcrawler05]

I remember Barbara Hall saying in an interview that CBS just assumed in their first season that they were a teen show and pretty much left them alone to do what they wanted (and the first season was always either 1st or 2nd in ratings...) but when they discovered that they weren't getting the young demographic (on a Friday night...), they started tinkering with it and telling them to emphasize the teen storyline. The second season never finished 1st in ratings, and alternated between second and third, and I believe there was actually an episode or two that dropped all the way to 4. If anyone ever needed proof that network interference = horrible mistake, that should be enough. It takes a lot of 'skill' to take a first season Emmy nominated People's Choice award winning hit and turn it into a ratings flop that looses a percentage of fans each week. But that is probably for the 'what went wrong' thread...wherever that may be.

[Gabriela]

Wow - I didn't know that CBS thought that. You can definitely see their influence in second season with the Joan/Adam storyline and the Duffs coming in as guest stars.

I was so surprised with the change in Joan in second season. She felt like a totally different character to me. I started to like Adam even more, though, at the beginning of the second season, but obviously that changed toward the end

[clueless01]

I don't know how many times I've said this but I love Adam in season 1. Season 2, not so much. Still like him, just not as much. Joan's likability fluctuates for me all the way through, I don't think that's a huge reflection on the show though, more on my perception of people. Although Joanith made me dislike Joan a bit for that whole portion of the season.

[Gabriela]

Adam's character was adorable in first season! It's so weird because it's like Adam and Joan kind of switched personalities (in some ways) between the beginning of the show and towards the end. In the beginning Adam was catering more to Joan and Joan "wore the pants" so to speak, but then by the end Adam seemed like the one more in control while Joan seemed more wandering and thoughtful...

As far as Joan's likeability, I thought I remembered quite a few people complaining about her at the beginning of second season, saying that she was so different and just seemed really whiny.

[shadowcrawler05]

I blame part of Joan's unlikeability (not really a word, but I don't care - that's how I roll) on Amber Tamblyn's disconnect from the character. She mentioned in an interview that she felt separated with Joan when they returned, partly because she had spent her off time filming Sisterhood. In a way, it worked, because it really highlighted Joan's disconnect from G-d and the world. In another way, it didn't, because it highlighted Joan's disconnect from G-d and the world. One of the things I liked most about season one's Joan was that she at least seemed to have a general understanding of the way the world worked as well as the ability to connect with anyone. I can't imagine any of the other character's being able to successfully forge a connection with someone like Ramsey or the homeless girl from Double Dutch whose name escapes me. That was Joan's unique skill, what her her special connection to the universe, the very reason she could perceive G-d, and it kind of got stripped away in season two.

Alternately, I've always wondered what a conversation between G-d and the one of the other characters would look like. Joan was the most open to doing what he asked with little questions asked. I'm sure Kevin would ask why he had to take his legs; Helen would question him nonstop about religion; Luke would geek out over all the scientific intricacies he forged when creating the world. I think Grace and Will would have similar conversations asking why he allows so much pain and hatred and violence in the world, which really says a lot about both of those characters and their heightened perceptions of suffering and makes me wish we'd have seen more interplay between the two because they have a lot more in common that one would think. I'm not sure about Adam. While he's a good candidate to understand suffering, he doesn't seem to get it on a larger or global scale. There were moments, albeit brief, where it seemed to me that he felt that amount of pain could only happen to him and no one else in the world was entitled to it. Which actually does fit with a kid who lost a parent at such a young age. He would most likely ask G-d to help him make sense of death.

[Gabriela]

I can see what you're saying about Amber feeling disconnected from the character causing what happened in the first half of season two. That kind of rubs me the wrong way just b/c as an actor/actress, filming something else between seasons of a TV show shouldn't really be that much of a hindrance. I thought Joan's change between seasons 1 and 2 was more than it should have been. I understand things being different but it didn't even feel like the same show to me, which was sad because I loved season 1. I'm glad season 2 didn't stay that way the entire time.

I agree - Joan's openness and her being able to accept things without having to question it (she really asked remarkably few questions to God if you think about it) was what made her the right kind of character to have conversations with God.

[clueless01]

I can see what you're saying about Amber feeling disconnected from the character causing what happened in the first half of season two. That kind of rubs me the wrong way just b/c as an actor/actress, filming something else between seasons of a TV show shouldn't really be that much of a hindrance. I thought Joan's change between seasons 1 and 2 was more than it should have been. I understand things being different but it didn't even feel like the same show to me, which was sad because I loved season 1. I'm glad season 2 didn't stay that way the entire time.

That perturbs me, too. I guess she had just spent the summer at crazy camp making lamps, but there was a little bit more missing with her character. Maybe her being more subdued could be explained away, but it was more that just that.

[Gabriela]

For me, it was that her struggle with whether to believe God exists and talks to her didn't seem very real - like the emotion wasn't there for me. She was just more obnoxious about it and the only time I felt we really felt her internal struggle with it was during the conversation with CBG at the end of "Only Connect" - I wish we would have seen more of that kind of stuff rather than her spouting off what she heard at crazy cramp about the psychosis of lyme disease...

[clueless01]

The conversation at the end of Only Connect was the biggest redeeming factor for the first episode. It kind of felt like that whole episode was warm up til that point.