bluestockinghp

Have been thinking about the episode some more, especially the development of the NHL triangle, which got a LOT of focus.

I think it established the primacy of H/N relationship over the H/L relationship for the first time.

--Lucas clearly wanted a return to the good old days of their relationship, where he had at least an equal claim to her attention. So he invited her to the competition, and she accepted. (Why didn't Nathan invite her? Maybe he thought she'd have to work? If so, a line from him to that effect would have bee nice.) So she was supposed to be there as a companion for Lucas.

--But right away she took a ride from Nathan. She was considerate enough to clear it with Lucas, who was actually pretty gracious. So here's the first case in the episode where H picks N over L.

--Then we have the hotel room kiss. (I guess Lucas has got tired of waiting for a late Haley so that's why he goes back to his room.) Nathan pretty much asks her to ditch Lucas for him, but Haley keeps her word and goes after Lucas until he, graciously again, lets her choose Nathan. (And TPTB: Can we PLEASE have the scene of them in the hotel room in the first season DVD.)

--But then we have Lucas' conversation with Jake, where we find out how Lucas really feels--he's OK with Haley being with anyone OTHER than Nathan. I don't think it's just that he can't stand/doesn't trust Nathan, though that's certainly a part of it. The fact that he would prefer her to be with Tim says a lot. Maybe Tim has hidden depths, but so far he has been portrayed as a party animal-type, with not the least interest in a real relationship--hardly the kind of guy a true friend would want their true friend to get involved with. But that's the point: Tim would not be any kind of threat to LH; there'd be no danger of any emotional commitment or even friendship. Lucas feels threatened by NH because he can see that Nathan is replacing him as Haley's primary relationship--the person she goes to first with her triumphs and her troubles.

--The "ridiculous" comment comes right out of the same mindset. Haley is "branching out" and trying new things--he wants her in a box that he can control, one that's safe and familiar for him, one where she looks to him first. That's the only way I can explain the cruelty of that remark: people lash out when they feel they're losing control. But Haley showed some spunk in throwing the comment back at him (maybe she learned that tactic from him--he's a master at it!). She made the key point that a friend should be happy about the happiness of a friend.

--Then we have what may be the real turning point--Lucas and Nathan's conversation at 4 am. The two of them don't talk much about anything but hardly ever about Haley. In ENIAS Lucas was clearly Haley's most important relationship--he tells Nathan how to treat Haley--or else! In the post-Christmas episodes it looked to me that Nathan had gradually become more important to her than Lucas was, as Lucas spent all his time with BP and LH seemed to drift apart. But then Lucas gets injured and in ISB Haley puts Lucas first--she won't even talk to Nathan until, with Nathan's help, she's able to restore her relationship with Lucas. But then, although we never get a conversation about it, I think Haley recognizes that Nathan has accepted that Lucas is an important part of her life.

So, for the first time, at 4 AM, Nathan brings up Haley to Lucas. (She has obviously told him what Lucas said.) I think that shows that Nathan now feels confident enough in his relationship with Haley that he can call Lucas on his behavior. But he does so pretty gently--the words are strong but the tone is understated. The way Lucas protests is consistent--Haley is changing, code for she's escaping from her box, from the comfortable relationship he's depended on and taken from granted.

Nathan says she's the same Haley. But I disagree (and so I guess I disagree with the thread title). As others have stated, Haley IS changing. She's growing up and experiencing new things. Would you really want a girl at 24 to be the same way she was at 15 or 16?

--The next day we have the LN conversation where their relationship is redefined. Lucas "misses his friend"--he wants the past back--but Haley makes it clear the past is gone. If Lucas wants to be part of her life, he is going to have to be part of NH, "sooner or later, eventually." (She doesn't make the same demand of Nathan because he's already passed the test of accepting Lucas in ISB.) Nathan is in her life period; he comes first. That is a huge shift.

--Finally we have the scenes of HL watching the basketball game and saying goodbye at the parking lot. It SEEMS that Lucas has accepted the new status quo, but who knows?

Sorry to run on so long, but I really see this episode as a turning point for NH.

--Laura

~OneTreeHill~

you know last night i was also thinking about starting a thread for the love triangle..but are we allowed to do that?

southside

Beautifully stated, Laura. I bow down to you. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I agree with just about everything you said; Haley is opening up her life to another person and Lucas can't believe she's doing it. Before they entered the world of the 'Popular Crowd', it was just Lucas and Haley against everyone else. He just feels like he's losing her to the world that caused him so much pain.

Nathan has accepted the fact that Lucas is important to his girl friend, although I feel that a part of him wishes he wasn't because of the way he treats her at times. However, I'm glad they're finally dealing with this problem; it's a storyline that deserves some screen time. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Ravens23

I agree that I would like to see more of it.

Lucas said that he wouldn't mind seeing Haley w/anyone...even Tim...just not Nathan.

I don't believe that. I think Lucas would be jealous no matter who it was. He practically looked MORE jealous at the end of SITN when that random boy said hello to her than Nathan did.

~OneTreeHill~

your defenitly right..but i think he was just trying to make a point that he really didnt approve of Haley and Nathan..so he picked someone more extreme.

Ravens23

(LOL) [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] and we know that there is no one more extreme than Tim... that boy is ca-ray-zee!

bluestockinghp

Actually I meant to post this is the Nathan/Haley thread. Maybe someone could move it there for me? Less likely for Lucas/Haley shippers to find it there and get upset.

And how could I have forgotten the 3rd time Haley picked Nathan in SITH--when she ran to Nathan after the cheer competition? But that was an easy choice (assuming she even saw Luke standing there; I'm not sure she did). Nathan had supported her decision to participate; Lucas emphatically had not.

--Laura

RoxyBlueGirl7

I can't move your post. You can just copy and paste what you posted in the NH thread. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]