Thanks for the new thread. :)

Aside from firing her (I still want an explanation for why he doesn't do that) the options are fairly limited, and he's obviously taking the standard Nathan tack of ignoring it in the hope that it goes away - which hasn't worked once, but he still tries anyway. I should talk to Mark about that...

Turning her away in the context I said it doesn't necessarily mean laying down the law, yelling at her, etc. It just means he's not encouraging her, and he's turning her advances away. Which he is; whether he's doing it harshly and clearly enough is certainly up for debate, but he is turning her down, mostly by simply ignoring her. In 5.07 he's giving her nothing except a muted, half-icy greeting. Anything she thinks she's getting beyond that is in her own head, because he isn't giving her anything. I also don't think Nathan's reaction to her would have much impact on the kiss and the shower incident, because regardless of Nathan's thoughts on the matter, she's forcing herself on him anyway. Short of firing her, which he definitely should have done, I doubt anything would prevent her from throwing her skeezy butt at him.

I just don't understand why two perfectly sane (if not exactly cognizant) people would keep around someone who is making them both uncomfortable.

I guess it's ironic, in a way. Nathan probably thinks he should let Carrie stay because Haley and Jamie love her; Haley, in turn, probably thinks she should let Carrie stay because she's overreacting, and Nathan and Jamie both get along well with her. If Nathan and Haley would just talk to each, they'd realise that the wires have been seriously crossed somewhere along the line.


I just really, really hate the D word in this storyline. On top of everything else, it's one more kick in the teeth; there are so many ways for the characters to be angry and hurt without resorting to that for dramatic effect.


If you're talking about the last few posts, my comments weren't about that at all. They were about how hurt Nathan would be by it, and how fair it is to him when he's also a victim, regardless of whether Haley has good reason for doing it. The two aren't mutually exclusive: it's possible to agree that Haley has reason for thinking what she does, and for reacting the way she does, without being of the opinion that Nathan deserves it or that it's fair to him. :shrug:

I think it's pretty amazing how many threads Naliens can take up talking about scenes that we haven't seen and when on screen might play completely differently than what we expect. :lol:

I too respect strong opinions maybe that is why I keep going back and forth over how I feel about it. Just when I think one way someone will make a great point the other way and I get all torn.:sigh:


Anyway the whole divorce thing is a moot point because they dont and will never go through with it. It is just Mark's sick way to get shock value. That is all it is. It is just annoying and pointless.:rolleyes:



Thanks for the new thread.

No it was a general comment not your posts in particular. Sure Nathan is going to be hurt when Haley is going to brought the divorce but by keeping things from her, she is going to be hurt too and badly because he hides many things from her (Carrie, the Dan thing) is never going to let her in and his excuses all the times are the same because he don't want her to be hurt by his actions but at the end she IS ending up hurt. Again when you are really angry you don't think so... Haley reaction is human and we can't blame her for that. After everything that happened her reaction is normal.

I may have completely missed it but are we going to see Karen and Lily this season? I miss seeing Karen for one thing and I would love to see Lily and Jamie interact. She's just as cute as he is, they'd be adorable playing together.

Yes we are going to see Karen and Lily in 5.12 with Andy for Lucas wedding.

karen and lily are in the stills for the ll wedding and theres some scene where jamie and lily are sitting on the steps talking to eachother. i haven't read the ep notes in a while but i believe that carrie gets jamie alone because he goes to the bathroom on his own at the wedding--and he only goes on his own because he tells skills that lily is going to make fun of him if skills escorts him to the bathroom, and pleads that he's a big boy so he can do it on his own. at least i think he said lily..

At least that's something to look forward to. The little girl that plays Lily is adorable and we know how cute Jackson is so it's sure to be a scene to go awwww at :lol:

Awwww...good, that will be sweet. That's the last episode right?

Im sorry but Im had to comment on this as I absolutely agree with it. I don't know about anyone else but it sure is one of the issues that is driving me crazy. One knows as to how S4 was and it seems like S5 would be worse when it comes to this issue. I really can't get my head around as to why the writers won't write some scenes like that for NH but I also can't help but think that perhaps Joy and James just don't want to kiss like they used to back in S1/S2/S3...lol! I know that sounds insane but after watching that disugsting N///C scene that is the first thought that came to my mind. All we get now are a few pecks and that is about it. These two have chemistry that is out of this world yet it is either that the writers don't want to give them scenes like that or it probably just comes down to how the actors in the situation want to in act a particular scene. I really don't think they were given directions as to how they should kiss back in the earlier seasons so at this point I just feel it is probably something they are both comfortable with.

I seriously doubt it's the actors. They have to do what they're told. This is most definitely Mark and his writing staff. *SIGH*

Can we just not talk about this stupid N//C bed scene please!!:) This is disgusting enough so can we just pass on this subject that would be great.

Thanks for the new thread. Nice S1 reference with the title.

Nathan doesn't have an exclusive on keeping secrets and hurting Haley with them; both Nathan and Haley have been hurt when the other kept something from them, and that's going to be as true in this storyline as it always has been. Do we really think Haley will be the only one hurt when they both find out the other hasn't been talking to them? A key qualifier for me is always intent. Generally, when either one has hurt the other, it has been inadvertent: "I kept this from you because I didn't want to upset you. Oops! It hurt you even more when you found out I hadn't told you." That seems to be par for this show's course with every character, Nathan and Haley included.

Whether you're of the opinion that what Haley knows (or think she knows) is good reason or not, she's taking her anger and insecurity out on him when he's just as much a victim as she is. You can reasonably argue that it's understandable, but there aren't a whole lot of ways to spin it as being a fair thing to do.

This is still under the assumption that Nathan is an innocent victim in all of this and we don't know for sure 100% what is going to happen or how it's going to be portrayed on screen. Nathan might very well appear to be guilty of something. We just don't know what. All we can do now is wait and see....but until now the jury is out.

And I still think it's unfair to judge Haley's reactions when she's going to be extremely upset for whatever she sees. She's probably going to go for the hurt. It's a typical human reaction and I'm not going fault her for it.