[There You'll Be]

RECENT FILMOGRAPHY

Live from Lincoln Center (TV series) :: Capt. George Brackett (2010)
The Good Wife (TV series) :: Jim Moody (2010)
COMPLETE FILMOGRAPHY

MEMBORABLE QUOTES

SULLY ICONS

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) This is all making me want to go look again at the episodes where she appears before she's turned into a vampire. Assuming there's even more than one, which I don't remember. Whatever was the case, Spike was an amazing man, in the end. And he pretty much got there on his own... with perhaps a solid basis in having been loved as a human being, before everything else. Maybe that was the big difference between him and Angel. Short of his sister, I don't think anyone loved the Liam that was human before he became Angel.

I don't remember either how many she was in.

Spike was incredible. He was so multi-dimensional.

And yeah. Liam was not a stellar person before he was vamped.

[sunnykerr]

Having just spent the evening with my own flawed, but loving parentals, I'm gonna go ahead and just call it.

Having a loving mother was essential to having Spike become the multi-dimensional, essentially good person he was.

I mean, it's to the point where I could almost (not quite, but almost) lump that whole period where he revelled in the darkness and violence as his prolongued teenage crisis.

That wouldn't be fair to the richness of the character, though.

Spike got to be a good creature because he was always so very self-aware and eventually reached a point where pointless violence wasn't enough anymore.

Also, I think Dru was a bad influence.

[There You'll Be]

I agree, Dru was a bad influence. But I loved her and her with Spike.

At least at first. When she was kinda helpless, and he took care of her. I loved him for that.

[sunnykerr]

They really were a sorta magnificently twisted twosome.

And, see, I remember a more pro-active Dru.

The one who emerged post healing thingy in the church that collapsed on top of Spike.

She was completely batty, for sure, but she was strong.

[There You'll Be]

She was super strong.

What freaked me out was the way she mesmerized Kendra and then killed her.

Dru seriously had some mojo and power.

And yeah, I got tired of her being so happy that Spike and Angel were fighting over her.

That's when I kind of got over her. Till she was on Angel anyway.

[sunnykerr]

Honestly, I like Kendra well enough, but I saw her death more as the evidence that being too much about the discipline of Slayerdom left you wide open for attack from weirdos like Dru.

I loved Dru when she was being completely batty.

I didn't love her as a weakling needing to be taken care of and I kinda found her unconvincing as a strong villain.

She was awesome with Spike, though.

The two of them had a delicious dynamic, so I think that helped me like her more.

You're right, though, her delight in having "the boys" fight over her was a big turn off.

[There You'll Be]

Hm, I never thought of Kendra/Dru that way.

That's a really good point and viewpoint.

I liked Dru in all forms really-except the threesome. That made me ill because Spike deserved SO much better than that.

[sunnykerr]

I didn't mind Dru.

But I wouldn't say I loved her.

I did love watching Darla reacting to Dru.

Darla's another one I didn't really love on her own, but I didn't mind her.

But, there you have it.

I just couldn't get a handle on what either Dru or Darla were trying to be at any given moment.

And that was frustrating.

[There You'll Be]

That's a really good point.

It was never obvious who they were trying to be.

And they were rarely the same character twice between episodes.

[sunnykerr]

I think maybe Darla and Dru were supposed to be loose canons, unpredictable.

And, of course, I'd have to say that it certainly turned out to be the case.

But I do think it made it difficult to have an appreciation of them, one way or another.

At least for me.

I can appreciate a villain, so long as we know he's evil and then he dies, but it's hard to appreciate characters who cross the lines a million different ways.

[There You'll Be]

They were seriously bi-polar those two.

I kinda liked when they tormented people. It's unexplainable to me.

you really couldn't decipher what their plans were, their intentions (often) and what the heck was going on in their heads.

[sunnykerr]

It sorta made them unreliable, as characters.

Which also means they could just fit whatever purpose the writers wanted them to have.

Which I suppose is helpful when you're trying to construct a narrative and you have only so many characters to get you there.

But, as a viewer, it just meant I couldn't get very attached to either one.

Xander, I hated.

So I guess there are worse thing than just not being very attached.

[There You'll Be]

Hated is a nice word to use when Xander is concerned.

I see what you mean about the 2 ladies though.

They both had their good and bad moments.

[sunnykerr]

I suppose Darla and Dru had their moments, that's right.

Just because it wasn't enough for me doesn't mean I couldn't appreciate it.

Like I said, anyone was better than Xander, in the end.

[There You'll Be]

Well, I hated Warren slightly less than Xander, but they'd have made the perfect couple. They deserved each other.

Then they could spend the rest of their lives blaming each other for their misery.