News & Politics | Sensitive Topics #12 ~ Topics Inside Include: Death - War - Violence - Etc...
 

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Topics within this thread contain stories, images and discussions that may cause a triggering event. To be respectful of everyone on the El&I board we have divided the News & Politics thread into two separate categories. "Lite" & "Sensitive"

This is the Sensitive Thread. Topics discussed here should be the ones that fall on the darker sides of the news, that includes any kind of violence, sexual crimes, death, abuse, kidnapping etc..... The lighter side of the news should be posted here News & Politics Lite When in doubt if a topic falls in a certain category, just post it in here and a Moderater can move it if necessary.

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Thank you,

Mandie, & Sunny

Thank you for contributing.

I always wonder what's gonna happen when he's gone. We thought we got rid of the USSR. We thought the people of Russia, Ukraine, Lithuania, Latvia, etc. were free. But it's been Putin for 20+ years. So it never really happened. That's what we learned here

So, get rid of Putin. I'm on board with that. But what happens after? Do we get Putin 2.0? I get that, right now, we don't see anyone in Russia that could replace him. But we wouldn't, would we? That's the point.

Russia bombed a Ukrainian school. https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...9621647783579/

Also, potentially a stalemate could happen in this Russia/Ukraine war. Here's a linkt o that story.

https://www.axios.com/russias-invasi...cc583b124.html

That's a Russian war bingo, right? They had bombed a kindergarden, a hospital, a theatre where kids were hiding and a maternity ward. Now a school. That's gotta be on someone's bingo card.

If it is a stalemate, we can't allow Russia to be the only side preparing for part 3. Because they will. If it is a stalemate, all of us have to start preparing for part 3.

Honestly, this just shows that the world really didn't care about what was going on in our region before it could no longer be ignored.

For Central/Eastern Europe Russia/Putin has been a glooming threat for the past 30 years. Even though we're part of NATO and the EU, every Pole is definitely anticipating that Putin might attack us next. I'm sure all the former USSR states feel the same.

Belarus is pretty much under Russia's/Putin's thumb. I'm not sure if this has been widely reported overseas but back in 2020 there was a rigged election, there were massive protests, people were arrested, some managed to escape to Poland.

Putin has been trying to keep Ukraine under Russia's influence/overtake regions for years too. Ukraine's former president Viktor Yushchenko was poisoned back in 2004 when he was opposing the Russian backed candidate. Russia also invaded Ukraine back in 2014 but back then the world just let Russia/Putin take Crimea. Fights have been ongoing in the East of Ukraine since then and the country was clearly prepared for this invasion.

If it makes you feel any better, there are about 40 wars going in Africa at the moment, and I can barely name one. I don't think it's that no one cared. I do think we were naive. Well, I know I was extremely naive. And stupid. But it wasn't a lack of caring.

It's hard to know what's going on on the other side of the world when journalists can die or disappear if they get too critical.

And the fact that I know people from Poland, Romania and Bulgaria has given me the unfortunate feeling that I would know if there was something to know. (I'm talking about co-workers and friends of mine who live in Montreal, not people who still live where you are.) But, obviously, you can't grow up in the USSR and not learn to stay quiet about uncomfortable violations of human rights. That's another thing I've had to realize. I thought they would tell me, but obviously they don't owe me an education. They don't owe me anything. It's on me to be there for them now and to listen if and when they do want to talk.

We do hear about the rigged elections, violent suppression of any type of opposition and everything else. We do hear about that. But I don't know what we could do. Just because Putin has no qualms involving himselg in his neighbours' affairs doesn't mean democratic countries feel they have the right to dictate an election's outcome.

Obviously, something should have been done long before we got here. And we must continue to do more. At the same time, you kinds wish the Russians would take care of their own destiny here, too.

Putin spokesman refuses to rule out use of nuclear weapons if Russia faced an ‘existential threat’

Russian President Vladimir Putin’s chief spokesman has conceded that Russia has yet to achieve any of its military goals in Ukraine and refused to deny that Moscow could resort to the use of nuclear weapons.

In an interview with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour on Tuesday, Dmitry Peskov repeatedly refused to rule out that Russia would consider using nuclear weapons against what Moscow saw as an “existential threat.” When asked under what conditions Putin would use Russia’s nuclear capability, Peskov replied, “if it is an existential threat for our country, then it can be.”

Putin has previously hinted at using nuclear weapons against nations that he saw as a threat to Russia. Back in February, the Russian President said in a televised statement, “No matter who tries to stand in our way or all the more so create threats for our country and our people, they must know that Russia will respond immediately, and the consequences will be such as you have never seen in your entire history.”

He then said in a televised meeting with Russian defense officials that “officials in leading NATO countries have allowed themselves to make aggressive comments about our country, therefore I hereby order the Minister of Defense and the chief of the General Staff to place the Russian Army Deterrence Force on combat alert.”

When asked what Putin thought he had achieved in Ukraine so far, Peskov answered: “Well, first of all, not yet. He hasn’t achieved yet.”

The spokesman also claimed that the “special military operation” – the Kremlin’s official euphemism for Russia’s invasion in Ukraine – was “going on strictly in accordance with the plans and the purposes that were established before hand.”

Peskov also repeated Putin’s demands, saying that the “main goals of the operation” are to “get rid of the military potential of Ukraine,” to ensure Ukraine is a “neutral country,” to get rid of “nationalist battalions,” for Ukraine to accept that Crimea – annexed by Russia in 2014 – is part of Russia and to accept that the breakaway statelets of Luhansk and Donetsk “are already independent states.”

He also claimed that Russia has only attacked military targets, despite numerous reports of Russian airstrikes against civilian targets sheltering ordinary Ukrainians.

The interview comes as Western intelligence has reported that Russia’s operations have stalled in parts of Ukraine.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/22/europ...ntl/index.html

Countries do act though. Belarus has been sanctioned by the US EU several times over the past three decades, most recently after the above-mentioned election and now because of their involvement in the war.

Not sure how Russians can take care of their own destiny considering what their leaders do to people they consider traitors. They just passed a law that allows them to imprison people up to 15 years spreading fake news about the Russian military.

I don't blame people who don't go out protesting. I've been to my share of violent protests, taking goggles and milk with me in case of tear gas attacks, emergency contacts written on my forearms in case of arrests but I never risked the way people in Russia do. IDK if I would be brave enough to go out protesting if I knew I could get easily arrested, end up for years in prison or in a labour camp, my family being watched by the regime.

Sanctions are good at saying we don't approve of something, but do they really work? :shrug: I look at the sanctions on Russia right now and I feel like, if they worked, we'd already see it by now. It feels like they hurt the people and not the leaders. And, in the case of Belarus, it probably only made Lukashenko even more convinced that his control of whatever power he feels he has is guaranteed by Putin.

No one's blaming the Russians for not overthrowing Putin (well, okay, that one Ukrainian government lady I saw interviewed did blame them). We can all see how ridiculous oppressed they are and how Putin bends the law to make sure he has no whiff of contradiction, let alone opposition.

But only the Russians can change their government. If the rest of us do it, we're interfering in a sovereign nation's right to control its destiny. Because every time someone from outside a country has replaced that country's leader with one of their choosing, it ends badly.

And, honestly, it's not fair to hope the Ukrainians can do the work the Russians can't do themselves.

Sanctions work if they are harsh and consistent, it's the first time Oligarchs are getting this much heat for their ties to the Kremlin/Putin. There has been a significant shift, mostly because the public pressured them into action. Remains to be seen how long this is going to last. Though I think that there is kind of no turning back now, this reminds me of Libya and Kaddafi, the West tolerated him for decades, hell even welcomed him with open arms when he visited Europe or the US, and then cut ties when it wasn't beneficial anymore.

imo there's a difference between meddling in an election like what the US did in South America for example and condemning an election that's clearly rigged and leads to people being killed or arrested.

I think that Ukrainians are the only ones who can condemn Russians. I feel like it's unfair for the rest of us, especially ones who don't have governments who constantly violate human rights. It's high and noble to think we'd be brave enough to go out protesting even if it meant never seeing our friends or family but in reality, most people wouldn't have the courage, unless it's already so wide-spread the government/military/police can't stop it.

Awful news out of China:

China plane crash: Human remains found amid wreckage


Recovery teams have found human remains at the crash site of the China Eastern jet which plunged into mountains this week, say state media.

Authorities have yet to declare the number of victims, but there has been no sign so far that any of the 132 people on board had survived.

Investigators still do not know why the plane suddenly entered a near-vertical dive in southern China on Monday.

It is hoped the cockpit voice recorder, recovered intact, will yield clues.

It was damaged on the outside but its internal records appeared to be fine, officials said. It has been sent to Beijing for its data to be analysed.

Search teams found the first of the crucial "black boxes" in difficult circumstances on Wednesday.

One man told Reuters his nephew had been a passenger on the flight. He and his son had driven five hours from neighbouring Shenzhen province in the hope of being able to find their relative alive.

"I plan to stay until the matter is sorted and I can take his ashes back. But this depends on the work of authorities.

"I hope the country can thoroughly investigate this matter and find out whether it is the manufacturer's fault or a maintenance problem."

The crash of the passenger plane this week - which had been on a short domestic flight from Kunming to Guangzhou on the coast - has shocked and devastated China. The country has had a strong air safety record over the past three decades.

President Xi Jinping swiftly ordered a full-scale investigation into the tragedy, dispatching Vice Premier Liu He and hundreds of personnel to the rural hillside region in Guangxi province.

But none of the knowledge released so far about the flight indicates any technical problems or anything amiss with environmental factors.

At a press conference on Wednesday, aviation officials said there hadn't been any weather or other hazards endured by the flight on its route path. China Eastern said the Boeing 737-800 plane, less than seven years old, had also passed all pre-flight checks.

There had been three pilots, China Eastern officials disclosed. The captain had 6,709 hours flying experience, and the first and second officers had 31,769 hours and 556 hours respectively.

"From what we know, the performance of the three pilots had been good and their family life relatively harmonious," the airline representative said.

Air traffic control had also been in regular communication with the pilots on board right until it entered its near nosedive descent from a cruising height.

Flight tracking data showed the plane plummeted thousands of metres in minutes.

According to FlightRadar24, the plane was cruising at an altitude of 29,100ft (about 9,000m), but two minutes and 15 seconds later it was recorded at 9,075ft. The last sourced information on the flight showed it ended at 14:22 local time, at an altitude of 3,225ft.

Investigators are expected to look at several possible causes, including deliberate action, pilot error, or technical issues such as a structural failure or mid-air collision.

China's investigators have also invited US aviation experts to join in the investigation - as the Boeing plane was manufactured in the US. The invitation has been welcomed by the Biden administration.

But US officials said they weren't sure if they would send over a team yet due to China's strict Covid quarantine requirements for incoming visitors.

In the meantime, China's aviation officials are carrying out a two-week safety audit of all planes while China Eastern and its two subsidiaries have grounded its fleet of Boeing 737-800s as an emergency precaution.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-60856854

As soon as I heard about that plane crash, I didn't expect there to be any survivors. And, given how much time has passed, I doubt they'll find any.

:shrug: Obviously, I'm looking at things from further away. I'm not seeing how the oligarchs are closer to flipping on their old KGB colleague whose crowned himself czar of the empire in his mind. The stories we're getting here is that the Donbass may be the "price" Ukraine pays for peace. Which... doesn't sound all that acceptable to me.

And I don't expect sanctions to last with Russia. I'm not an economist, but if Russia brought anything at all to the global economy, I expect most Western leaders will try and normalize relations against as soon as the "crisis" has passed.

Ghaddafi is one excellent example of how sanctions don't work. Assad might be another. And don't even get me started on China, which emprisoned two Canadian citizens as payback for our arresting a Huawei executive at the behest of the U.S. Department of Justice. Sanctions didn't get them back. Sanctions got us nowhere.


I agree that there's a difference between meddling in an election and condemning one that's been rigged. But I also think that propaganda works, so if outsiders are involved in the next Russian election, we're playing into their hands.

Not that it stopped Russia involving itself in our elections, mind you.

Obviously, Ukrainians can condemn the war Russia is waging on them and whatever support Russians at home are giving to that war. But it's not up to them to replace the Russian government either. See, I may have my opinion on how the Polish judicial system violates human rights in its restrictions on abortions, but if the Polish people don't oppose those laws, it's not my role to get involved. We all have the right to control our own destinies. It's not for me to judge,

And that's just it, isn't it? There are, what, 125 million Russians? If even 10% of them got out to protest, the police and army couldn't do anything about it. The Russians who are objecting are being incredibly brave, but that's really because not enough are willing to step up. It's their government, their leadership. I understand that it's dangerous and difficult for them. But, for petes sake, where would Poland be if people didn't stand up for its right to exist democratically over and over again throughout its history?

The biggest protests after the fall of communism happened in opposition to these laws, at the height of the pandemic. There have been so many pro-abortion protests in the last 6-7 years, not sure where your assumption is coming from.

Of course we heard of the protests, but didn't it just mean that the total ban on abortion was tempered?

I can't pretend what it's like on the ground in Poland, but per Amnesty International: Poland: A Year On, Abortion Ruling Harms Women

The Wikipedia page on the issue cites an article that seems to be in Polish, stating that 10-15% of Polish women who find themselves pregnant have to travel to surrounding countries to get the abortion they want.

:shrug: I have personal issues with abortion, but I believe it's on each woman (and her partner, if she has one) to decide for themselves. I believe anything short of affordable and easy access to an abortion is a violation of a woman's right to have agency over her own body. So the fact that abortion is illegal in Poland unless the mother's health is in danger or the pregnancy results from a criminal act amounts to a violation of human rights. So does requiring a woman to travel to a foreign country to access the health services she should have at home. :shrug:

But that's the point I was trying to make. In Canada, no political party would survive trying to mess with our abortion laws. So I can't judge a Polish government for restricting access to abortion. If the Polish people are satisfied with the fact that abortion is not completely banned, then it's their choice. I have to respect that. My feelings on the issue don't matter.

I mean I know how bad it is and it only got worse under the current government and the biggest pro-life organizations have rumoured ties to the Kremlin/oligarchs, so they are well funded. Still don't get where your assumption is coming from though. People are not satisfied with the laws, otherwise, there would be no protests.

In all countries that are as conservative (or even more), there are pro-choice organizations that everybody can support.

It's ok to judge governments that violate human rights, the Polish government has had an exceptionally bad track record when it comes to women, LGBT+ and refugee rights in the past 7 years. Several European institutions and sister cities have suspended ties to Poland or frozen financial support over this.