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LilMouse 03-25-2022 04:12 PM

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I miss those, but also mid-season reruns. Like, "there's no episode this week because everyone's watching March Madness, so here's the episode you missed for some random reason back in October..." It made it less stressful, somehow. Like, you might catch the episode you missed eventually.
Now they figure if you really want to see it, you'll find it online :( Sometimes you don't want to go through the effort of finding it online. Sometimes you just want it presented to you on a silver platter.

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There was a theory somewhere that the genres we're into at a given time in history have some relation to what's going on in society at the time. Vampire trends may have to do with how none of us want to get older. Or how we all feel doomed.

I know the classic example is how zombie movies and shows took off in a major way after the attacks of September 11. The feeling of being invaded and attacked...
I remember Battlestar Galactica aired right after 9/11 and they had the whole, don't trust anyone vibe and you never know who is a Cylon vibe.
That was a good show and I liked how it was dark unlike the original version, which I never saw.

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He was good. But, for some reason, it's his mother that stuck with me. I can still remember some of the faces she'd pull.
The chunky blonde lady? I don't remember her faces :(

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I don't know much German either, but I have caught some German here and there. Probably on the news, and there's a few German movies I've watched with subtitles (Downfall is the classic, of course. Goodbye Lenin, too.)
Is Downfall the one with Hitler that everyone made those parody videos of? They did it like Hitler was mad he'd have to wait to see Harry Potter

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See, that's another sci-fi story that I love, but that's not really about the sci-fi to me. It's about the family in that submarine, and of course the love story between Ed Harris and Mary Eliabeth Mastrantonio.
I can still hear Ed Harris screaming at MEM and smacking her around when she drowned

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that Richard III was some evil Voldemort-type figure.
Do you really think he killed his nephews? I'm not even sure it was him.

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Did they not write or did they write on media that did not survive? Who knows? I kinda doubt they were the ancient Greek equivalent of Orcs, though.
This is why a time machine is needed. If they did write, a modern person from today can go back and save their writings. Who knows if they were all burned?
Same with Queen Victoria burning her diary entries / letters. I want to know what the ones that didn't survive say.

sunnykerr 03-26-2022 08:15 AM

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Originally Posted by LilMouse (Post 106111887)
Now they figure if you really want to see it, you'll find it online :( Sometimes you don't want to go through the effort of finding it online. Sometimes you just want it presented to you on a silver platter.

Except not everyone enjoys watching content on a small screen, having to pay more money to access it, having to deal with endless commercials and/or not being able to fast-forward while watching. Going online is certainly an option, but it removes a lot of control on the viewer, I find. Not that I have that much experience with online platforms.


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I remember Battlestar Galactica aired right after 9/11 and they had the whole, don't trust anyone vibe and you never know who is a Cylon vibe.
That was a good show and I liked how it was dark unlike the original version, which I never saw.
I remember the movie Gattaca came out around the time Dolly the clone sheep made the news. :nod: A great movie showing very clearly the problem with messing with the genetic code of humans. And, again, amazing human relationships at the center of it. :)


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The chunky blonde lady? I don't remember her faces :(
:nod: That's her. I don't want to give a false impression, but she had the face of a normal person. Compared to a cast of beautiful people, that might make her sound not-pretty, but that's not what I'm trying to say. She looked good. Just normal.


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Is Downfall the one with Hitler that everyone made those parody videos of? They did it like Hitler was mad he'd have to wait to see Harry Potter
Yup. That's the one. Downfall's about Hitler's final days in the bunker, so he really had lost the plot by then. All the drugs he was on weren't just taking their toll on him, you know? He was barely functional as a human.


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I can still hear Ed Harris screaming at MEM and smacking her around when she drowned
:nod: Such a powerful scene.


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Do you really think he killed his nephews? I'm not even sure it was him.
I doubt he would have done the deed himself. As to whether he had them killed... it's not impossible, given the time period. People had family members murdered back then, for sure. But, also, kids died for all kinds of reasons a whole lot more. Epilepsy, fever of any kind, spoiled food, minor wounds not treated properly... It would have been easy for at least one of those boys to die of non-murder reasons, for everyone around them to freak out and try to cover it up and for the second boy to either die as well or be shipped somewhere he would just get lost in the crowd.

:shrug: It is literally impossible to know for sure. It's possible Edward had them murdered, but it's equally as likely that they just died from getting a cold.


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This is why a time machine is needed. If they did write, a modern person from today can go back and save their writings. Who knows if they were all burned?
Same with Queen Victoria burning her diary entries / letters. I want to know what the ones that didn't survive say.
Personally, I'd be more interested in whatever the Spartans had to say than what Beatrice may have burnt of her mother's diaries. :lol: What we have left of Queen Victoria's writing is already enough to reveal the kind of woman she was... it doesn't make me want to know much more. :lol: Her poor kids. I mean, given how she was raised, it's no wonder Queen Victoria was such an awful parent herself, but still...

LilMouse 03-27-2022 12:30 PM

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Except not everyone enjoys watching content on a small screen, having to pay more money to access it, having to deal with endless commercials and/or not being able to fast-forward while watching. Going online is certainly an option, but it removes a lot of control on the viewer, I find. Not that I have that much experience with online platforms.
If watching on a phone was the only option, I'd be pissed. I don't want to see something on a small screen or to eat up battery. But a laptop isn't so bad. And if ad-blocker is on then that helps.

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I remember the movie Gattaca came out around the time Dolly the clone sheep made the news. A great movie showing very clearly the problem with messing with the genetic code of humans. And, again, amazing human relationships at the center of it.

Oh yea, Gattaca is a good movie. But Jude Law's ending makes me squirm.

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That's her. I don't want to give a false impression, but she had the face of a normal person. Compared to a cast of beautiful people, that might make her sound not-pretty, but that's not what I'm trying to say. She looked good. Just normal.
True, and I remember her being on the older-side, so the casting department was looking for kinda middle-america, normal people

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Yup. That's the one. Downfall's about Hitler's final days in the bunker, so he really had lost the plot by then. All the drugs he was on weren't just taking their toll on him, you know? He was barely functional as a human.
I hope, wherever he is, he knows people are making fun of him and creating parodies out of his suffering.

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It is literally impossible to know for sure. It's possible Edward had them murdered, but it's equally as likely that they just died from getting a cold.
I know it's a really weird thing to say, but I wonder if when we die we learn about all the universe / history secrets. Like do we learn who Jack the Ripper really was etc etc? I would like to find these things out.

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Her poor kids. I mean, given how she was raised, it's no wonder Queen Victoria was such an awful parent herself, but still...
I feel bad for her kids. And even though Albert/Edward wasn't a great husband (what king was, really?) she had no faith in him to be a good leader after her.
I am listening to a book right now about Queen V being a matchmaker for her kids and grandkids.

sunnykerr 03-27-2022 03:52 PM

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Originally Posted by LilMouse (Post 106124217)
If watching on a phone was the only option, I'd be pissed. I don't want to see something on a small screen or to eat up battery. But a laptop isn't so bad. And if ad-blocker is on then that helps.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised I am unaware of all the work-arounds. :lol:


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Oh yea, Gattaca is a good movie. But Jude Law's ending makes me squirm.
Jerome's fate is a bit grim, for sure. I'm always torn between the grisliness of his choice and the fact that it is his choice. The story is all about the importance of a person's will over their predestined circumstances. Jerome's choice, in the end, is the first time he gets to achieve what he wants.... as morbid as that is.


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True, and I remember her being on the older-side, so the casting department was looking for kinda middle-america, normal people
That's precisely it. The alien mom looks like she could be anyone's mom. :) I'm actually not even sure that she was an alien mom, now that I think about it. She could have been a follower. Or a bodyguard or something.


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I hope, wherever he is, he knows people are making fun of him and creating parodies out of his suffering.
:shrug: At the end, whatever Hitler had been as a man was entirely gone. He was like a Dath Vader figure, only instead of the machine keeping him alive, it was drugs and hatred. No man there to feel or understand human emotions, even his own.

Obviously, our sense of justice demands that his evil acts have consequences, and his cowardly suicide robbed humanity of that. But, once he's dead, I'm kinda not interested in his suffering. I know it might be weird, but I feel Hitler's time after life would have been better spent in reparations than in expiation.


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I know it's a really weird thing to say, but I wonder if when we die we learn about all the universe / history secrets. Like do we learn who Jack the Ripper really was etc etc? I would like to find these things out.
That's also a fantasy of mine. :) I guess we'll find out eventually. :)


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I feel bad for her kids. And even though Albert/Edward wasn't a great husband (what king was, really?) she had no faith in him to be a good leader after her.
I am listening to a book right now about Queen V being a matchmaker for her kids and grandkids.
Queen Victoria's life is a study in contradictions. The fact that she more or less opted out of public/political life after Albert died was the exact thing that was needed at that time, since parliamentary monarchy was just starting out and monarchy might not have survived had she "continued" to try and impose her will on government. At the same time, by the time she died, Bertie/Edward's pomp and circumstances style of very showy monarchy was exactly what was needed to make sure monarchy retained its popular support. :lol:

Exact opposite ways of governing, exaxt same impact. :shrug: Go figure. :)

I never know what to think of Victoria, in the end. As a parent, she was a monster. As a woman, she was self-centered and selfish... but then what else was she supposed to be? Everything around her was all about her. It's just hard to reconcile how she could get away with it, but then it was such a different time.

LilMouse 03-28-2022 10:58 AM

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Jerome's fate is a bit grim, for sure. I'm always torn between the grisliness of his choice and the fact that it is his choice. The story is all about the importance of a person's will over their predestined circumstances. Jerome's choice, in the end, is the first time he gets to achieve what he wants.... as morbid as that is.
True, although couldn't he have taken a pill instead and fallen into sleep? He died in such a :eek: very dramatic way.

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That's precisely it. The alien mom looks like she could be anyone's mom. I'm actually not even sure that she was an alien mom, now that I think about it. She could have been a follower. Or a bodyguard or something.
yea, I think it was more like she was a soldier and posing, for the sake of wanting to establish trust and/or calm from the podsters, as a mom.

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At the end, whatever Hitler had been as a man was entirely gone. He was like a Dath Vader figure, only instead of the machine keeping him alive, it was drugs and hatred. No man there to feel or understand human emotions, even his own.

Obviously, our sense of justice demands that his evil acts have consequences, and his cowardly suicide robbed humanity of that. But, once he's dead, I'm kinda not interested in his suffering. I know it might be weird, but I feel Hitler's time after life would have been better spent in reparations than in expiation.

I meant like, I hope while Hitler is in hell, while a band of demons are hammering his skull for eternity, he also knows that in the earthly-realm his memory is also being abused. With his ego, it has to be bothersome.

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That's also a fantasy of mine. I guess we'll find out eventually.
It'd be cool to meet our ancestors to all the way back to cave man times.

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Queen Victoria's life is a study in contradictions. The fact that she more or less opted out of public/political life after Albert died was the exact thing that was needed at that time, since parliamentary monarchy was just starting out and monarchy might not have survived had she "continued" to try and impose her will on government. At the same time, by the time she died, Bertie/Edward's pomp and circumstances style of very showy monarchy was exactly what was needed to make sure monarchy retained its popular support.

Exact opposite ways of governing, exaxt same impact. Go figure.

It's probably what saved British monarchy from ending up like Czar Nicholas II and other European royals that WWI got rid of.

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I never know what to think of Victoria, in the end. As a parent, she was a monster. As a woman, she was self-centered and selfish... but then what else was she supposed to be? Everything around her was all about her. It's just hard to reconcile how she could get away with it, but then it was such a different time.
The way her own mother raised her didn't help. Who knows what she would've been like as a mom/woman if she wasn't raised like she was in a prison.

sunnykerr 03-28-2022 07:11 PM

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Originally Posted by LilMouse (Post 106130387)
True, although couldn't he have taken a pill instead and fallen into sleep? He died in such a :eek: very dramatic way.

:shrug: Maybe in a world where people can design their kids, the types of pills needed to kill yourself don't exist? I don't know. Obviously, they went for the drama of the grisly end instead of a calmer death.


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I meant like, I hope while Hitler is in hell, while a band of demons are hammering his skull for eternity, he also knows that in the earthly-realm his memory is also being abused. With his ego, it has to be bothersome.
:shrug: I find it hard to argue against Hitler needing to be punished. I just don't believe in hell. Obviously, I could be wrong about that. I'm not saying there is no hell. I just can't picture Hitler in a place I don't believe exists. If we follow the "logic" of What Dreams May Come, Hitler certainly would be in a kind of hell where he doesn't realize he's died.


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It'd be cool to meet our ancestors to all the way back to cave man times
Not sure I'd want to go back as far as cavemen. :lol: But it would be wonderful to meet the generations that preceded me. By the time I was born, only three of my four grandparents were alive and they all died by the time I was 20. I would love to meet my mother's father. From what she has to say about him, he was wonderful.

And my paternal grandfather's specific ancestry is a freaking mystery. Aside from the fact that his father (who died during WWI at age 28) was born in Scotland and his mother was Irish in some way or other (whether born there herself or born of someone who was is a total mystery), nobody knows anything for sure. We're not even sure what the family surname actually is since there were a couple of adoptions along the way.

I'd also love to meet historical figures, though. Or, maybe not so much meet as... behold? Like, I'd be really intimidated to introduce myself to Jane Austen, but I'd like to be in her presence. :lol:


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It's probably what saved British monarchy from ending up like Czar Nicholas II and other European royals that WWI got rid of.
The irony there being, of course, that Czar Nicholas II ended the way he did because of his English cousin being too afraid of "what it would look like" to grant him asylum in England, when even the English government was ready to work on that.

But, for the rest of it, you're completely right. Like Swedish, Soanish and Belgian monarchy, English monarchs owe their survival in some part to Victoria paving the way for their being mostly symbolic and her son building on that to add the pomp and circumstance bit.

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The way her own mother raised her didn't help. Who knows what she would've been like as a mom/woman if she wasn't raised like she was in a prison.
:nod: Given how young Victoria was when her father died, it's so ironic that her mother was such a Georgian in the way she raised her youngest child. They really ate their children, those Georgians.

Considering how Edward went on to raise his kids to fear him, and then his son George V also raised his kids to fear him, it's a bit of a miracle that George VI was such a doting father to his daughters. I don't know how he managed to break the cycle, but I have a lot of admiration for that.

reason to believe 03-28-2022 11:34 PM

I’m so lost in this thread now :lol:

LilMouse 03-29-2022 03:04 PM

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I’m so lost in this thread now
:lol: We really did go off on a tangent. I can't even remember what page it was where a crush was talked about.

Do you have a current celeb crush?

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Maybe in a world where people can design their kids, the types of pills needed to kill yourself don't exist? I don't know. Obviously, they went for the drama of the grisly end instead of a calmer death.
Yep, all of that sounds accurate. Falling asleep doesn't produce the visuals that burning does. Gotta make it more heart-pumping for the audience.

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I find it hard to argue against Hitler needing to be punished. I just don't believe in hell. Obviously, I could be wrong about that. I'm not saying there is no hell. I just can't picture Hitler in a place I don't believe exists. If we follow the "logic" of What Dreams May Come, Hitler certainly would be in a kind of hell where he doesn't realize he's died.
I never actually saw What Dreams May Come, but I get the thought of what the movie was going for.
Kinda like reliving your worst day forever and ever

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. By the time I was born, only three of my four grandparents were alive and they all died by the time I was 20. I would love to meet my mother's father. From what she has to say about him, he was wonderful.
I hope you do get to meet him :hug:
My grandma died when I was 7, so I would love to have more (eternal) time with her. It's somehow sadder when a grandparent dies when the grandkid is young because all the questions you should ask a grandparent aren't thought up at that time. Even with my grandfather, he died when I was 20 and there's so much I would ask him now because I have an interest and the questions have been thought of.

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And my paternal grandfather's specific ancestry is a freaking mystery. Aside from the fact that his father (who died during WWI at age 28) was born in Scotland and his mother was Irish in some way or other (whether born there herself or born of someone who was is a total mystery), nobody knows anything for sure. We're not even sure what the family surname actually is since there were a couple of adoptions along the way.
:( The amount of people who died, needlessly, in WWI is so upsetting. SO many young men that didn't need to die. And whoever thought that having men hunker down in a hole was a great way to fight a war needs to be smacked.

Too bad records aren't better. Although churches keep very good records, so maybe family history can be looked into that way?

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Like, I'd be really intimidated to introduce myself to Jane Austen, but I'd like to be in her presence.
:lol: I have an idea that she'd be able to make anyone who is intimated feel comfortable.

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The irony there being, of course, that Czar Nicholas II ended the way he did because of his English cousin being too afraid of "what it would look like" to grant him asylum in England, when even the English government was ready to work on that.
And Nicholas not only being his first cousin but Alexandra being his first cousin too...how can first cousins be ignored? And Alexandra was Queen Victoria's favorite grandchild. I don't think George made grandma very happy.

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They really ate their children, those Georgians.
I wonder if inbreeding affected their behavior.

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Considering how Edward went on to raise his kids to fear him, and then his son George V also raised his kids to fear him, it's a bit of a miracle that George VI was such a doting father to his daughters. I don't know how he managed to break the cycle, but I have a lot of admiration for that
My theory is because George V was so tough and cold that it made George VI have no confidence in himself and that somehow made him a softer parent.

sunnykerr 03-29-2022 05:42 PM

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Originally Posted by reason to believe (Post 106133719)
I’m so lost in this thread now :lol:

Sorry! :lol: Feel free to send us in a new direction. :)


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Originally Posted by LilMouse (Post 106137703)
Yep, all of that sounds accurate. Falling asleep doesn't produce the visuals that burning does. Gotta make it more heart-pumping for the audience.

Not to get too graphic. But I would imagine that, even if that's how you want to go out... it would hurt. At least for a bit. You would scream, react physically... :shrug:

Anyway... lol: Still agreat movie. Just a weird ending. I did kinda wish Jerome and the Uma Thurman character could have, I don't know... been friends or something.


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I never actually saw What Dreams May Come, but I get the thought of what the movie was going for.
Kinda like reliving your worst day forever and ever
Sort of. I mean, what we see of "hell" in that movie is in bits and sections. There is plenty of room for the imagination to create other scenarios.

The bit about the suicide person's version of hell is that it was their life, only with everything going wrong. Their house with pest invasions. Things that keep getting lost. The hell part isn't torture. It's thinking that you're still in the life that made you want to die.

Which was total nightmare fuel for me. Even as a person who doesn't believe in hell.


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I hope you do get to meet him :hug:
My grandma died when I was 7, so I would love to have more (eternal) time with her. It's somehow sadder when a grandparent dies when the grandkid is young because all the questions you should ask a grandparent aren't thought up at that time. Even with my grandfather, he died when I was 20 and there's so much I would ask him now because I have an interest and the questions have been thought of.
That's it, isn't it? Even the generations we got to meet... the relationship wasn't close. There was the gap of the generations between us.

So, I'd be curious to find out about the more distant stuff... but I'd be fascinated to really talk to the people who are closer to me in the timeline.


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:( The amount of people who died, needlessly, in WWI is so upsetting. SO many young men that didn't need to die. And whoever thought that having men hunker down in a hole was a great way to fight a war needs to be smacked.
World War I was an exercise in pointless butchery. :nod: The kicker, in my case anyway, is that my greatgrandfather didn't die at the front. At least, I don't think so. He's buried in Ontario, in a military hospital. So did he catch Spanish Flu on the way back? Was he injured to the extent that he needed hospitalization and he didn't make it? :shrug: Complete mystery.


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Too bad records aren't better. Although churches keep very good records, so maybe family history can be looked into that way?
I have an aunt who tried. The Irish records were apparently destroyed during the Irish Civil War. We wouldn't know where to begin to look for in terms of church records as we have no hint in terms of parts of Ireland. Her surname was very common for Ireland.

On the Scottish sides, my greatgrandfather seems to have been illegitimate. So that's gonna remain a mystery.


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:lol: I have an idea that she'd be able to make anyone who is intimated feel comfortable.
Maybe. If she was feeling particularly charitable that day and I struck her as a pleasant person. Because I've read that lady's letters. And the fact that the letters of hers that I have read are those that weren't burned by her sister (Victoria's daughter wasn't the only to do that) tells me that her wit could be deathly sharp.

:lol: Basically, everything I love about Jane Austen means I may very well not be up to snuff.


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And Nicholas not only being his first cousin but Alexandra being his first cousin too...how can first cousins be ignored? And Alexandra was Queen Victoria's favorite grandchild. I don't think George made grandma very happy.
https://preview.redd.it/8kduyhi7bza4...=webp&9149f5e7

That's how alike the Russian czar and his cousin, the English king, looked. George V is the one who de-Germanized all the royal family names because he was afraid the people would turn on them after WWI. I think maybe he sacrificed his cousin Nicholas and his family because he was afraid that his bringing an actual "god made me special to rule over my people" monarch to the English isles would put his own reign in danger.

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I wonder if inbreeding affected their behavior.
They were very much like that before 100 years before Victoria was born and all the inbreeding really kicked up. I think it's George II who had his wife, who was in the middle of active labor, travel in a horse-drawn carriage for however long just to make sure she wouldn't deliver their first-born under his father's roof. :crazy:


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My theory is because George V was so tough and cold that it made George VI have no confidence in himself and that somehow made him a softer parent.
:shrug: That's not a bad explanation at all.

And, since we want to talk about crushes, can we discuss Colin Firth playing George VI in The King's Speech? His utter desolation at being forced to become king when he's got that stutter...

LilMouse 03-30-2022 01:36 PM

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Not to get too graphic. But I would imagine that, even if that's how you want to go out... it would hurt. At least for a bit. You would scream, react physically...
Agree. I can't say why the character chose something so painful, but if this was real life I don't see many people choosing burning as a way to die. I would think most people would choose the least painful way to die.
Wow this is morbid.

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Anyway... lol: Still agreat movie. Just a weird ending. I did kinda wish Jerome and the Uma Thurman character could have, I don't know... been friends or something.
Makes you wonder, if the movie was made today how different would it be? I ask myself that question about a lot of movies/tv shows, how modern ways of thinking would change story.

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The bit about the suicide person's version of hell is that it was their life, only with everything going wrong. Their house with pest invasions. Things that keep getting lost. The hell part isn't torture. It's thinking that you're still in the life that made you want to die.

Which was total nightmare fuel for me. Even as a person who doesn't believe in hell.
It makes it sadder because the hope had when committing suicide of being released from pain isn't realized. That pain will forever be there.

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That's it, isn't it? Even the generations we got to meet... the relationship wasn't close. There was the gap of the generations between us.

So, I'd be curious to find out about the more distant stuff... but I'd be fascinated to really talk to the people who are closer to me in the timeline.
I would've asked a whole lot more about what they knew of their ancestors + military service

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The kicker, in my case anyway, is that my greatgrandfather didn't die at the front. At least, I don't think so. He's buried in Ontario, in a military hospital. So did he catch Spanish Flu on the way back? Was he injured to the extent that he needed hospitalization and he didn't make it? Complete mystery.
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I have an aunt who tried. The Irish records were apparently destroyed during the Irish Civil War. We wouldn't know where to begin to look for in terms of church records as we have no hint in terms of parts of Ireland. Her surname was very common for Ireland.

On the Scottish sides, my greatgrandfather seems to have been illegitimate. So that's gonna remain a mystery.
:( Darn shame.

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Maybe. If she was feeling particularly charitable that day and I struck her as a pleasant person. Because I've read that lady's letters. And the fact that the letters of hers that I have read are those that weren't burned by her sister (Victoria's daughter wasn't the only to do that) tells me that her wit could be deathly sharp.

Basically, everything I love about Jane Austen means I may very well not be up to snuff.
As long as you don't act silly and fawning, I think she won't think too poorly of you. Don't pull a stairs stunt to impress her like in Persuasion.

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That's how alike the Russian czar and his cousin, the English king, looked. George V is the one who de-Germanized all the royal family names because he was afraid the people would turn on them after WWI. I think maybe he sacrificed his cousin Nicholas and his family because he was afraid that his bringing an actual "god made me special to rule over my people" monarch to the English isles would put his own reign in danger.
Do you think somewhere there is a parallel universe where he did allow them to come?

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They were very much like that before 100 years before Victoria was born and all the inbreeding really kicked up. I think it's George II who had his wife, who was in the middle of active labor, travel in a horse-drawn carriage for however long just to make sure she wouldn't deliver their first-born under his father's roof.

It was actually George II's son, Frederick, who did that. Poor Augusta. I think I would've cursed him out if I was her and slapped him away.
I really don't get why Frederick's mother was so cold with him. It's the strangest relationship. And then calling your granddaughter a "poor, ugly little she-mouse"..... what the hell Caroline?

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And, since we want to talk about crushes, can we discuss Colin Firth playing George VI in The King's Speech? His utter desolation at being forced to become king when he's got that stutter...
The real George VI must be SOOOOOOOOOOOO happy Hollywood traded up in looks and got Colin Firth to play him. I liked that movie a lot.
Oh, and also, with his stutter he must've felt deficient and like he couldn't be mean to everyone, you know?

sunnykerr 03-30-2022 06:19 PM

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Originally Posted by LilMouse (Post 106143369)
Agree. I can't say why the character chose something so painful, but if this was real life I don't see many people choosing burning as a way to die. I would think most people would choose the least painful way to die.
Wow this is morbid.

I honestly don't want to keep the morbid going, but this does remind me of how you'll hear that this way of dying is the least painful way of dying or it's actually that way of dying that is the least way of dying.

I'm always, perhaps morbidly, amused when I hear stuff like that. Like, did they run a survey on the people who have died? :lol:


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Makes you wonder, if the movie was made today how different would it be? I ask myself that question about a lot of movies/tv shows, how modern ways of thinking would change story.
Times have changed in Hollywood. :nod: But this movie had a strong point of view, and it's not like it had themes or scenes that haven't aged well. If anything, maybe a Gattaca made today would have more diversity (body diversity, racial diversity, sexual diversity, etc.). Or the movie might lean harder on the problematic nature of messing with kids' DNA when it comes to erasing diversity... :shrug:

In a sense, the whole "point" of Jerome disappears if he doesn't end up killing himself. I don't love seeing it that way, but the character was meant to show that, even with all the planning in the world, you can't guarantee success and humans have a hard enough time as it is dealing with hardships and perceived failure... messing with DNA only would heighten that.


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It makes it sadder because the hope had when committing suicide of being released from pain isn't realized. That pain will forever be there.
To me, that's part of the genius of the movie. I mean, like I said before, big nightmare fuel. But the fact that suicide is never the answer... can you think of a better way to illustrate that than by having the person's death have literally no impact (or just enough to make things a bit worse) on their circumstances?

Anyway, trying to get away from morbid...

The movie's gorgeous. It spends most of its time in the "good place," if you will. And it's stunning and beautiful and uplifting. There's something about the types of lens they picked... like, at no point was this an animated movie, but certain scenes were like bringing paintings to real life. Gorgeous.


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I would've asked a whole lot more about what they knew of their ancestors + military service.
Sometimes, when I'm walking and the stars start to come out, I start "talking" to my ancestors who, 100-200 years ago were also walking beneath those same stars. I try to think of people on the other side of the world who are also watching those same stars. (I realize it doesn't work that way... I'm just using my imagination.)

I'd want to talk to my ancestors and tell them that they are not forgotten... which is darn silly since I have no clue who they are... but you get the point. I want to know them. To remember them. To honour them.


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As long as you don't act silly and fawning, I think she won't think too poorly of you. Don't pull a stairs stunt to impress her like in Persuasion.
Considering I'm about twice as old as Louisa Musgrove, I would certainly hope not to put my life in danger just to impress a man who's clearly destined to marry another. :lol:

:shrug: I don't know. As I've mentioned before, I can't vouch for my ability to remain cool in the presence of a celebrity. And Jane Austen isn't "just" a celebrity to me. She's an icon. She's a legend...


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Do you think somewhere there is a parallel universe where he did allow them to come?
:shrug: Maybe. I do think it must have weighed on him for the rest of his life. They were close. Looked like freaking twins. The fact that he's the reason they all died...

I mean, I'm assuming they knew at the time that the Czar and his family were killed. I know it was hushed up in Russia/the nascent USSR, but surely intelligence communities worldwide knew the truth and, if they did, then the King of England had to have been told.

It was ruthless of him to prevent his cousin and that cousin's family to be saved. I wonder if that ruthlessness would extend to being able to live with that decision afterwards, once it the consequences came to light. I can't imagine a normal person living with that. But then a King of England is, yes, normal like the rest of us in many ways, but maybe not in their ability to justify their lives and decisions.


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It was actually George II's son, Frederick, who did that. Poor Augusta. I think I would've cursed him out if I was her and slapped him away.
I really don't get why Frederick's mother was so cold with him. It's the strangest relationship. And then calling your granddaughter a "poor, ugly little she-mouse"..... what the hell Caroline?
:shrug: Caroline of Ansbach reminds me of Victoria in many ways, only way smarter. Because Caroline had her own children vaccinated against smallpox back when it was thought to be almost witchcraft. The woman believed in science, can you imagine? :lol:

But, like Victoria, she apparently had no love for babies. Victoria said they looked like frogs.

They did have weirdly emotional-but-distant relationships with their kids. Both obviously prefered their husbands to their children... which is sweet, if you're romantic, but kinda disturbing, too.

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The real George VI must be SOOOOOOOOOOOO happy Hollywood traded up in looks and got Colin Firth to play him. I liked that movie a lot.
Oh, and also, with his stutter he must've felt deficient and like he couldn't be mean to everyone, you know?
Honestly, the real George VI is one of the few old-timey monarchs that I find not too ugly. :lol: And that's darning with faint praise if there ever was, huh? What I mean is I find him fairly good-looking, and without his older brother's smarminess. Of course, he smoked like a chimney, hence dying of lung cancer. I mean, they all do. But the point is, I have a hard time crushing on anyone I know to be a heavy smoker. Because I have to imagine my crushes smell nice.

Anyway everyone would pale compared to Colin Firth, for sure. (And if Colin Firth smoke, please, no one tell me.)

The bit in the movie where he talks about his brother Johnny... Prince John had epilepsy, which worsened as he reached puberty and he was eventually removed from the public eye and taken care of on a farm or something. And then he died of his condition during his teenage years. Now, George VI would have been much older than the youngest of the six kids, but stuttering and having epilepsy may have seen similar enough to him to wonder or to identify with his baby brother.

:shrug: Sometimes we learn compassion through pretty hard lessons.

LilMouse 03-31-2022 01:11 PM

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but this does remind me of how you'll hear that this way of dying is the least painful way of dying or it's actually that way of dying that is the least way of dying.

I'm always, perhaps morbidly, amused when I hear stuff like that. Like, did they run a survey on the people who have died?
:lol: Exactly.
Like how people say drowning is the most peaceful way to go. How can a person know this????? And no, I would not want to drown. Being that I never learned how to swim, drowning sounds like a nightmare.

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In a sense, the whole "point" of Jerome disappears if he doesn't end up killing himself. I don't love seeing it that way, but the character was meant to show that, even with all the planning in the world, you can't guarantee success and humans have a hard enough time as it is dealing with hardships and perceived failure... messing with DNA only would heighten that.
:nod: Same with the brother. I don't remember him succeeding the way Ethan's character (blanking out on the name) did.

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can you think of a better way to illustrate that than by having the person's death have literally no impact (or just enough to make things a bit worse) on their circumstances?
well said, and it's a good way to not have the movie be a sort of promotion for suicide.

this shot from the movie is gorgeous. It's like being in a Thomas Kinkade painting.

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I'd want to talk to my ancestors and tell them that they are not forgotten... which is darn silly since I have no clue who they are... but you get the point. I want to know them. To remember them. To honour them.
I feel the same way. I mean, I don't know the names of my ancestors who lived pre 1700s. I don't know what they looked like or what their lives were like, but I'd like to meet them and tell them they matter to me. I'd like to know what they're like.

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I don't know. As I've mentioned before, I can't vouch for my ability to remain cool in the presence of a celebrity. And Jane Austen isn't "just" a celebrity to me. She's an icon. She's a legend...
So are you more likely to get tongue tied / giggly in front of an absolute favorite or be really quiet out of fear of embarrassing yourself?

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I mean, I'm assuming they knew at the time that the Czar and his family were killed. I know it was hushed up in Russia/the nascent USSR, but surely intelligence communities worldwide knew the truth and, if they did, then the King of England had to have been told
And even if the intelligence community didn't know for sure what happened to them, the fact that the Romanovs weren't writing letters back, reaching out, tells you nothing good happened.

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It was ruthless of him to prevent his cousin and that cousin's family to be saved. I wonder if that ruthlessness would extend to being able to live with that decision afterwards, once it the consequences came to light. I can't imagine a normal person living with that. But then a King of England is, yes, normal like the rest of us in many ways, but maybe not in their ability to justify their lives and decisions.
IDK. I imagine him retreating more and more into his stamp collection to rid himself of human connections.

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The woman believed in science, can you imagine?
She also took regular baths and liked to use soap and was called a radical for it :eek: I can't imagine a world where being clean is radical.

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They did have weirdly emotional-but-distant relationships with their kids. Both obviously prefered their husbands to their children... which is sweet, if you're romantic, but kinda disturbing, too.
I feel like it's a situation where you can't relate to the kids/their interests but once they actually age into adulthood then you're able to hold a conversation with them and are therefore more interested.
Like Ewan McGregor's ex-wife said her father had no interest in her when she was a kid. But then once she grew up and could talk about more mature subjects, he started caring more.

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Honestly, the real George VI is one of the few old-timey monarchs that I find not too ugly. And that's darning with faint praise if there ever was, huh?
:lol: He's not Charles II of Spain and therefore it's all good. And I feel bad for Charles II of Spain, really. He stood no chance.

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I have a hard time crushing on anyone I know to be a heavy smoker. Because I have to imagine my crushes smell nice.
I like this. Plus no one wants to kiss an ashtray.

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Anyway everyone would pale compared to Colin Firth, for sure. (And if Colin Firth smoke, please, no one tell me.)
What do you do when he has to smoke in a movie?

Speaking of Prince John, a number of years ago I watched this documentary about him. It's really good, though I do have to warn you 18 minutes in they show video of people have epileptic seizures in the early 20th century, and the fact that they're just being videoed and no one is trying to help in any way is hard to stomach.


sunnykerr 03-31-2022 05:29 PM

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Originally Posted by LilMouse (Post 106149905)
:nod: Same with the brother. I don't remember him succeeding the way Ethan's character (blanking out on the name) did.

Ethan's character was named Vincent. Don't ask me why I remember these things. I don't remember Uma Thurman's character's name or anyone else's for that matter. Just Jerome and Vincent. :shrug:

Vincent's brother was like Jerome, but on a more bargain-level. That was the point of Jerome. His parents were filthy rich and paid the megabucks to have a winner for a son. And his swimming career was good, but he wasn't Michael Phelps.


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well said, and it's a good way to not have the movie be a sort of promotion for suicide.

this shot from the movie is gorgeous. It's like being in a Thomas Kinkade painting.
It is anything but a promotion of suicide. :nod: I won't say more because, should you ever see it, I don't want to spoil anything. So, yeah, I'll just say it doesn't promote suicide.

And that shot is a good taste of what the movie looks like, except it doesn't just stick with painting. It's art. And, like, I don't usually get movies about art. :lol: The movie is not about art, it's just surrounded by it in every shot. Maybe that's why I get this one. :)


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I feel the same way. I mean, I don't know the names of my ancestors who lived pre 1700s. I don't know what they looked like or what their lives were like, but I'd like to meet them and tell them they matter to me. I'd like to know what they're like.
I think it's obvious by now that, while no expert, I am passionate about history. And still I can't imagine the lives of my ancestors. My grandmother gave birth to six 10lbs-plus babies at home. And that's, like, the tip of a very large iceberg. :lol:

I'd love to see my ancestors' lives. To really get to know them.


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So are you more likely to get tongue tied / giggly in front of an absolute favorite or be really quiet out of fear of embarrassing yourself?
It's a toss-up. If I have my wits about me, I'll stay as quiet as I can. But I do get verbal diarrhea when I'm uncomfortable, which inevitably leads to massive auto-flaggelationa afterwards. "Why wouldn't you just shut up?" :shrug:

I'm one of those people other people think can't possibly be introverted because my default is to fill a silence with endless jibber-jabber. I am introverted. I'm just not shy.

I think I'm getting better at it. But it's deeply ingrained.

How's your reaction to meeting famous or admired people?

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And even if the intelligence community didn't know for sure what happened to them, the fact that the Romanovs weren't writing letters back, reaching out, tells you nothing good happened.
:nod: Yup. And, thinking of people who have lost family in the Holocaust, it's even worse when you pretty much know what happened, but you also don't really know what happened for sure


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She also took regular baths and liked to use soap and was called a radical for it :eek: I can't imagine a world where being clean is radical.
I vaguely remember researching for a paper and coming across some bylaws of... I want to say Boston, but like really back in the day. And, basically, it was either illegal or at least really badly seen to take baths, unless it was under the advise of a doctor. :lol:

I gotta say, the smell factor alone is one of the many reasons why I'm so grateful to be living in the time I live in. :lol:


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I feel like it's a situation where you can't relate to the kids/their interests but once they actually age into adulthood then you're able to hold a conversation with them and are therefore more interested.
I'm sure that played into it. They wouldn't be the first to have no idea what to do with a human that can't communicate what it wants or needs. Or that doesn't understand commands or directions. I remember an interview with a local author who talked about his post-partum depression because he had no idea what to do with a child he couldn't communicate with. Sounded really self-involved to me at the time, but I can see why it would not be the easiest thing.


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Like Ewan McGregor's ex-wife said her father had no interest in her when she was a kid. But then once she grew up and could talk about more mature subjects, he started caring more.
Sounds like my dad. Although, in my dad's case, it was a matter of being utterly incapable of handling the responsibility of a human being depending on him. He had a rough childhood, poor dude, and was given too much responsibility too soon due to his father not being around.

I mean, I'm very much of the school of "don't have kids if you can't handle the fact that they'll rely on you," but my dad turned out to be an amazingly decent guy the second I could stand on my own two feet. And it wasn't that he didn't care before. I really do thing he just couldn't handle it.


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:lol: He's not Charles II of Spain and therefore it's all good. And I feel bad for Charles II of Spain, really. He stood no chance.
Meh. Charles II was still Charles, King of Spain. He could afford to be ugly.


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I like this. Plus no one wants to kiss an ashtray.
That, too!


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What do you do when he has to smoke in a movie?
:shrug: People smoke. People I love smoke. In a movie, he's playing a character who smokes. It's not him. :lol:

But, yeah, that is generally the way I feel about actors when I see them playing roles. Even when it comes to nudity. Obviously, it must be different for them because it's their body, but I don't feel like I'm seeing their bits, but the character's bits. :shrug:

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Speaking of Prince John, a number of years ago I watched this documentary about him. It's really good, though I do have to warn you 18 minutes in they show video of people have epileptic seizures in the early 20th century, and the fact that they're just being videoed and no one is trying to help in any way is hard to stomach.


Oooh, thank you. I don't think I've seen that one and lord knows I love me a historical documentary. :) And no worries. The most popular TV show in the history of here had an epileptic character and they didn't shy away from showing what that looked like... even though that was obviously an actor playing a part.

But I also grew up during the AIDS epidemic, and if you want disturbing images of people suffering to the point of death without any help, you need look no further than what was going on back then.

LilMouse 04-04-2022 12:58 PM

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Ethan's character was named Vincent. Don't ask me why I remember these things. I don't remember Uma Thurman's character's name or anyone else's for that matter. Just Jerome and Vincent.

Vincent's brother was like Jerome, but on a more bargain-level. That was the point of Jerome. His parents were filthy rich and paid the megabucks to have a winner for a son. And his swimming career was good, but he wasn't Michael Phelps.
Now the movie is back on Netflix streaming, so maybe I will watch again.

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My grandmother gave birth to six 10lbs-plus babies at home. And that's, like, the tip of a very large iceberg.
Ouch!
As someone who is tiny, I'd be afraid to have a baby at home.

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How's your reaction to meeting famous or admired people?
Anytime I met someone at a stage door or at a Con, I always had some kind of question ready beforehand. So while I am nervous right before coming in contact with the celeb, while I'm there talking it somehow floats away and I am fine.

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basically, it was either illegal or at least really badly seen to take baths, unless it was under the advise of a doctor.

I gotta say, the smell factor alone is one of the many reasons why I'm so grateful to be living in the time I live in.
:lol:
so ridiculous that people can't be trusted to bathe and need a "professional" watchful eye.

The thought alone is making me gag

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but my dad turned out to be an amazingly decent guy the second I could stand on my own two feet. And it wasn't that he didn't care before. I really do thing he just couldn't handle it.
At least it sounds like the relationship got better so you didn't totally miss out on knowing him on a personal level :love:

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Meh. Charles II was still Charles, King of Spain. He could afford to be ugly.
I know a lot of women will (in modern days) get together with an ugly guy because he has money, but I just can't do it. I need the guy to be physically attractive to me.

Past women didn't have much choice but modern women....love yourself. Money isn't worth grossness being all over you.

sunnykerr 04-04-2022 04:56 PM

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Originally Posted by LilMouse (Post 106176623)
Now the movie is back on Netflix streaming, so maybe I will watch again.

:shrug: If you want. :lol: Now I feel like I've put pressure on you.

But it is one of those movies that I will watch if I come across it on TV.


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Ouch!
As someone who is tiny, I'd be afraid to have a baby at home.
I'm not that tiny and it's a big ouch! for me as well. :lol: It's insane what our female ancestors went through just to make sure the (human) race continued. (Obligatory parentheses because race is quite a recent invention of ours.)


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Anytime I met someone at a stage door or at a Con, I always had some kind of question ready beforehand. So while I am nervous right before coming in contact with the celeb, while I'm there talking it somehow floats away and I am fine.
Oh, that's a great idea! I'll try to focue on that next time I get flummoxed. Think of a question.


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:lol:
so ridiculous that people can't be trusted to bathe and need a "professional" watchful eye.

The thought alone is making me gag
I read somewhere, a whole lot of time ago, that the men used to pee in the nearest available corner at Versailles and bugs were everywhere. Yuck.


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At least it sounds like the relationship got better so you didn't totally miss out on knowing him on a personal level :love:
:shrug: It's not perfect, but we can carry a conversation. So long as we stay away from certain topics where the differences of generation become too difficult to navigate. :lol:


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I know a lot of women will (in modern days) get together with an ugly guy because he has money, but I just can't do it. I need the guy to be physically attractive to me.

Past women didn't have much choice but modern women....love yourself. Money isn't worth grossness being all over you.
I certainly agree with the latter part of what you say, although money would certainly enter into the equation for me. If I'm honest, anyway. I certainly hope nevet to hitch my wagon to some horrendous person just to make sure the bills are paid, but I don't know that I'm romantic enough (if that's even the word) to try a relationship with a guy who wouldn't contribute his share. Regardless of the reason why he wasn't contributing, even the 150% valid ones.

As for ugliness... At the risk of sounding like someone aiming for sainthood, I genuinely don't pay that much attention to a person's looks... I mean, I do notice them, but their personality rapidly becomes what keeps me around or keeps me away.

So, yeah, it's not that I don't notice. But I have also noticed that someone I thought looked average will become better looking to me as I get to know them. :shrug:

And vice versa. For instance, I used to find Will Smith quite handsome and charming until recent events...

LilMouse 04-05-2022 11:17 AM

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Now I feel like I've put pressure on you.
Nah, the very first time I saw it and the twist of cop = Vincent's brother was revealed, I wanted to rewatch it knowing the twist, just never got around to it. And I keep telling myself I will re-watch it I just never get to it.

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It's insane what our female ancestors went through just to make sure the (human) race continued. (Obligatory parentheses because race is quite a recent invention of ours.)
I sometimes think in general that it's a miracle humans are here today considering the very stupid things doctors thought in the past. Bloodletting really works as a treatment, you know :lol:

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Oh, that's a great idea! I'll try to focue on that next time I get flummoxed. Think of a question.
;) And if you know beforehand that you'll see this person, it gives you time to think up something.

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I read somewhere, a whole lot of time ago, that the men used to pee in the nearest available corner at Versailles and bugs were everywhere. Yuck.
oooh that reminds me of a Lucy Worsley documentary I saw on Hampton Court and how they had these spikes in corners (that still exist today) that were supposed to discourage men from peeing.

I feel like outside of the palace ended up being safer/cleaner than inside a palace.

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I certainly agree with the latter part of what you say, although money would certainly enter into the equation for me. If I'm honest, anyway. I certainly hope nevet to hitch my wagon to some horrendous person just to make sure the bills are paid, but I don't know that I'm romantic enough (if that's even the word) to try a relationship with a guy who wouldn't contribute his share. Regardless of the reason why he wasn't contributing, even the 150% valid ones.

As for ugliness... At the risk of sounding like someone aiming for sainthood, I genuinely don't pay that much attention to a person's looks... I mean, I do notice them, but their personality rapidly becomes what keeps me around or keeps me away.

So, yeah, it's not that I don't notice. But I have also noticed that someone I thought looked average will become better looking to me as I get to know them.

And vice versa. For instance, I used to find Will Smith quite handsome and charming until recent events...

I was largely thinking of a situation where men like Keith Richards, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler (old rockstars or old and unattractive billionaires) somehow get twenty-something year old girlfriends. Everyone knows they get these young women because of money and I just couldn't do it. If I lived in some universe where any of these rich, old, and not cute men wanted to hook up with me, I'd turn them down no matter what.

I can understand dating an age appropriate man who isn't maybe that great looking if he has a great sense of humor and treats his significant other with a lot of respect.

sunnykerr 04-05-2022 06:04 PM

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Originally Posted by LilMouse (Post 106182284)
I sometimes think in general that it's a miracle humans are here today considering the very stupid things doctors thought in the past. Bloodletting really works as a treatment, you know :lol:

If you think about how so many things should have prevented any of us from being born, it's insane that any of us are here. :lol:

And don't let me start on bloodletting. You're okay with cutting open a person who needs all their energies to recover from an illness because you think there are tiny parts of their blood none of us can see that need to be "balanced" but it doesn't occur to you that people catch diseases from micro-organisms you can't see? :crazy:

Plua, they believed bad smell was the cause of disease. How could you even tell what was a bad smell from the usual rot?


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;) And if you know beforehand that you'll see this person, it gives you time to think up something.
I think I'd rather be surprised. I have a tendency to talk myself out of things. Or, you know, chicken right out.


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oooh that reminds me of a Lucy Worsley documentary I saw on Hampton Court and how they had these spikes in corners (that still exist today) that were supposed to discourage men from peeing.

I feel like outside of the palace ended up being safer/cleaner than inside a palace.
God, I love Lucy Worsley. Her documentaries are awesomesauce. So I started buying her books and she's also awesome at that :lol: You can really hear her voice in her writing.

I will never forget how the bedroom where Jane Seymour died is the place where they have their staff meetings. :)

And I totally agree with her when she says the only reason Jane stayed Henry's favourite wife till his death is because she died before he could fall out of love with her. :lol:


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I was largely thinking of a situation where men like Keith Richards, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler (old rockstars or old and unattractive billionaires) somehow get twenty-something year old girlfriends. Everyone knows they get these young women because of money and I just couldn't do it. If I lived in some universe where any of these rich, old, and not cute men wanted to hook up with me, I'd turn them down no matter what.
See, in situations such as that, you see a gold-digger, and lord knows I'm not saying you're wrong, but I see a predator as well. :shrug: They get away with it because they're rich, but it's also a fame and power thing.

And any relationship predicated on one person having all the power... I will forever find creepy and disturbing. :shrug:


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I can understand dating an age appropriate man who isn't maybe that great looking if he has a great sense of humor and treats his significant other with a lot of respect.
I hope even a good-looking guy would have to have a good sense of humour and to treat his SO with respect. :lol: I mean, I know what you were saying. It just occured to me that the sentence was funny.

LilMouse 04-06-2022 04:26 PM

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Plua, they believed bad smell was the cause of disease. How could you even tell what was a bad smell from the usual rot?
I think it's like when people say your own sh** doesn't stink, so when it's rot you're not used to then you smell it :lol:

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I started buying her books and she's also awesome at that You can really hear her voice in her writing.
I wanted to get her audiobooks, particularly:
If Walls Could Talk and The Art of the English Murder but I keep holding off. Have you read them and should I just bite the bullet and get them?

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I will never forget how the bedroom where Jane Seymour died is the place where they have their staff meetings.
It's a shame that what I imagine to be a once ornate room is now a dull room with white walls.

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And I totally agree with her when she says the only reason Jane stayed Henry's favourite wife till his death is because she died before he could fall out of love with her.
And she gave him the son, so he never would've divorced her because of that.

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but I see a predator as well. They get away with it because they're rich, but it's also a fame and power thing.
yea, they are predators. It's really gross when your oldest child can say they're older than a step parent.
And I don't like a woman being a lot older than a male, either. Like Aaron Taylor-Johnson and his wife Samantha. She groomed him and should be called out on it.

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I hope even a good-looking guy would have to have a good sense of humour and to treat his SO with respect.
:nod:

Somehow good-looking men don't feel like they need to try as hard, sadly.

sunnykerr 04-06-2022 05:43 PM

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Originally Posted by LilMouse (Post 106190306)
I think it's like when people say your own sh** doesn't stink, so when it's rot you're not used to then you smell it :lol:

:lol: I may be misunderstanding you here. I was raised by a nurse, so I often mistake where people are going when talking about bodily functions. But it is true that we mind our own smells less than we do that of others.

It's kinda why people can start to stink as they get older. Our olfactory senses dull a bit and we're used to the way we smell, so... we literally can't smell how bad we stink.


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I wanted to get her audiobooks, particularly:
If Walls Could Talk and The Art of the English Murder but I keep holding off. Have you read them and should I just bite the bullet and get them?
:lol: I'm so the wrong person to ask. If The Art of the English Murder (the book, I mean) wasn't so darn expensive, I'd have bought it ages ago. I love If These Wall Could Talk. And, well, she made a documentary series of them that seems to be presently on a certain website where people share videos more or less legally... :shrug: :lol:

Honestly, though, the woman could interest me in the history of... I don't know... something I'm really not interested in. :lol: I'm just trying to say that I'm the wrong person to ask. As far as I'm concerned, you should always say yes to Lucy Worsley. :lol:


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It's a shame that what I imagine to be a once ornate room is now a dull room with white walls.
It is a shame, but we don't know (at least, I don't know) that there's anything that could have been done. It's easy to think that this was a recent development, but William and Mary lived in that castle and put their stamp on it as well. Maybe they're the ones who destroyed the Tudor decor in that room. :shrug: Maybe there was a fire or carptenter ants. :lol: We just don't know.


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And she gave him the son, so he never would've divorced her because of that.
:shrug: Hard to know, really. Most historians agree that Henry wasn't himself after she died. Whether he had mental illness, concussion syndrome, malaria... whatever the reason, he switched from being your run-of-the-mill "I am a king, everything I say is right" to a tyrant.

I'm sure Jane could have done better with that Henry than, say, Anne Boleyn who was no wallflower. But he really wasn't in his right mind at all. Who knows how he might have treated her, even then. :shrug:

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yea, they are predators. It's really gross when your oldest child can say they're older than a step parent.
And I don't like a woman being a lot older than a male, either. Like Aaron Taylor-Johnson and his wife Samantha. She groomed him and should be called out on it.
I don't think it's right when the woman's that much older either. For me, there's the difference in age, but also the age the youngest person was when they first met.

You can have a certain gap in the ages, but if you were both adults when you first met... I mean, it's not automatically right either. Because, again, who has the power in the relationship? But if you met as consenting, lucid adults... I'd be more willing to accept a bigger gap in age.

It's people who met when one of them was a child, have an ongoing relationship of a sort where one is a child and the other is an adult... and then there's a romance. I'm thinking of Celine Dion and her husband or Woody Allen and his former stepdaughter-now-wife. How do you switch from seeing that person as a child to seeing them as a sexual object? :shrug: I'm comparing two different situations here. By all accounts, Celine was passionately in love with her husband and Woody is a pedophile. But... it does creep me out.

And I don't have a ready example of an older woman doing the same. I vaguely know who Aaron Taylor-Johnson is and I don't know his wife at all. I assume you've got it right, but I don't know them enough to talk about my impression of their relationship.


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Somehow good-looking men don't feel like they need to try as hard, sadly.
And, of course, the same holds true for good-looking women... I would imagine. :lol:

This is the part where I sometimes feel like I'm an alien. I can see that some people are, objectively speaking, better looking than others. But that has no meaning to me. And I don,t mean to say that I'm "above" any normal human reaction to that human beauty. Just that...

OK, an example. I grew up at a time when Brad Pitt became the big hot thing. Johnny Depp was another one. And, like, objectively, I could see that they were good-looking. But it didn't make me appreciate their movies any better or make me want to see them more. I never had fantasies about what I would do if I ever met them... Or whatever normal teenagers do. They were just good-looking actors in the world who did movies that, for the most part, didn't particularly interest me.

I did see Legends of the Fall. I thought the younger and older brother were more interesting. And better looking. :shrug:

LilMouse 04-08-2022 07:01 PM

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I may be misunderstanding you here. I was raised by a nurse, so I often mistake where people are going when talking about bodily functions. But it is true that we mind our own smells less than we do that of others.

It's kinda why people can start to stink as they get older. Our olfactory senses dull a bit and we're used to the way we smell, so... we literally can't smell how bad we stink.
No misunderstanding ;)

My uncle, his wife, and one of his daughters are heavy smokers. So whenever I go to their house, the smell of smoke is so strong and gross, and I ask myself how can they possibly live in such a smokey house? Do they not notice it?

Or I remember years ago a friend of mine was moving house. And the people who lived in it before her REALLY stunk it up. It had to be aired out for days. Again I wondered, did the former owners not smell their own stink? How could they not?

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And, well, she made a documentary series of them that seems to be presently on a certain website where people share videos more or less legally...
YouTube?

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I'm just trying to say that I'm the wrong person to ask. As far as I'm concerned, you should always say yes to Lucy Worsley.
I do have 11 credits to use before end of Dec. Maybe I will use them on. Lucy W stuff

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It is a shame, but we don't know (at least, I don't know) that there's anything that could have been done. It's easy to think that this was a recent development, but William and Mary lived in that castle and put their stamp on it as well. Maybe they're the ones who destroyed the Tudor decor in that room. Maybe there was a fire or carptenter ants. We just don't know.
True, good points. It makes me want to go back in time and yell at people who are contemplating knocking things down to not do it. I'd scream at them that they're destroying history.

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Hard to know, really. Most historians agree that Henry wasn't himself after she died. Whether he had mental illness, concussion syndrome, malaria... whatever the reason, he switched from being your run-of-the-mill "I am a king, everything I say is right" to a tyrant.

I'm sure Jane could have done better with that Henry than, say, Anne Boleyn who was no wallflower. But he really wasn't in his right mind at all. Who knows how he might have treated her, even then.
But if he had divorced Jane, wouldn't that have made Edward illegitimate (the way Mary and Elizabeth became illegitimate)? He couldn't have risked his son and heir being viewed that way.

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You can have a certain gap in the ages, but if you were both adults when you first met... I mean, it's not automatically right either. Because, again, who has the power in the relationship? But if you met as consenting, lucid adults... I'd be more willing to accept a bigger gap in age.

It's people who met when one of them was a child, have an ongoing relationship of a sort where one is a child and the other is an adult... and then there's a romance. I'm thinking of Celine Dion and her husband or Woody Allen and his former stepdaughter-now-wife. How do you switch from seeing that person as a child to seeing them as a sexual object? I'm comparing two different situations here. By all accounts, Celine was passionately in love with her husband and Woody is a pedophile. But... it does creep me out.

And I don't have a ready example of an older woman doing the same. I vaguely know who Aaron Taylor-Johnson is and I don't know his wife at all. I assume you've got it right, but I don't know them enough to talk about my impression of their relationship.

It is kinda funny to me how (where I'm from) 18 is the magic age where you can be a consenting adult. What kind of magic takes place between 17 and 18 that all of a sudden a person is mature enough to handle an adult relationship?

Woody should be thrown in jail. And in Woody's case, I don't really know if he wants to separate his stepdaughter/wife being a child + being sexual.

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OK, an example. I grew up at a time when Brad Pitt became the big hot thing. Johnny Depp was another one. And, like, objectively, I could see that they were good-looking. But it didn't make me appreciate their movies any better or make me want to see them more. I never had fantasies about what I would do if I ever met them... Or whatever normal teenagers do. They were just good-looking actors in the world who did movies that, for the most part, didn't particularly interest me.

I did see Legends of the Fall. I thought the younger and older brother were more interesting. And better looking
It could be that you didn't know these actors personally that made you not care about them. Maybe it's intelligence or sense of humor that interests you more than a nice smile and symmetrical face?

sunnykerr 04-09-2022 08:40 AM

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Originally Posted by LilMouse (Post 106204543)
No misunderstanding ;)

My uncle, his wife, and one of his daughters are heavy smokers. So whenever I go to their house, the smell of smoke is so strong and gross, and I ask myself how can they possibly live in such a smokey house? Do they not notice it?

Or I remember years ago a friend of mine was moving house. And the people who lived in it before her REALLY stunk it up. It had to be aired out for days. Again I wondered, did the former owners not smell their own stink? How could they not?

:shrug: Sometimes even other people don't spot how pungent cigarette smell can be. My dad and his wife are invited each year to her brother's house a couple of days after Christmas. I went with them once. It hit me like a wall as soon as they opened the door.

I was uncomfortable the whole time I was there and had to use my asthma pump just to get through it. And still my dad would argue with me "they don't smoke inside the house." :shrug: Have you tried telling their house that?

Because I didn't see anyone smoke inside, but it felt like walking into an ashtray.


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YouTube?
Right in one. :)


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True, good points. It makes me want to go back in time and yell at people who are contemplating knocking things down to not do it. I'd scream at them that they're destroying history.
According to my dad, my grandmother "swapped" valuable older furniture sets for more fashionable stuff (and, thus, rapidly useless) following some persuasion by a salesman. I mean, I never saw the older stuff (obviously) so it's hard to tell if it was genuinely valuable or just old. :lol:

My point is that destroying valuable historical character happens all the time, to everyone, under all kinds of circumstances.


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But if he had divorced Jane, wouldn't that have made Edward illegitimate (the way Mary and Elizabeth became illegitimate)? He couldn't have risked his son and heir being viewed that way.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think that, as long as he was king, Henry could keep whichever ones of his children he wanted legitimate regardless of divorcing their mothers. I mean, Henry's father only had a claim to the throne because his mother (Magaret Beaufort), an illegitmate daughter, was made legitimate after the fact.


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It is kinda funny to me how (where I'm from) 18 is the magic age where you can be a consenting adult. What kind of magic takes place between 17 and 18 that all of a sudden a person is mature enough to handle an adult relationship?

Woody should be thrown in jail. And in Woody's case, I don't really know if he wants to separate his stepdaughter/wife being a child + being sexual.
Here, the laws on statutory rape allow for a small "window" of leniency, if you will. I'm not quite sure what the actual law says, but it's not statutory rape if there's less than 4 or 5 years difference between the partners and, of course, if the partners are consenting.

So it would be statutory rape for a 40-year-old to have sex with a 17-year-old, but not for a 21-year-old to have sex with a 17-year-old. So the passage from 17 to 18 is less legally important than the gap between the partners. And that lines up with my own beliefs.

Maturity in adult relationships is such an intangible thing, though. I totally understand what you're saying. And I agree. I honestly agree. I just don't know how you go about calculating that. Some 22-year-olds have more maturity than some 50-year-olds. Doesn't mean I'd want to see a 22-year-old and a 50-year-old in a relationship. :shrug:


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It could be that you didn't know these actors personally that made you not care about them. Maybe it's intelligence or sense of humor that interests you more than a nice smile and symmetrical face?
I never knew much about the personal lives of Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp or many actors growing up. But the second part of what you're saying there is certainly true. I will be 500% more attracted to a person/actor because of their personality (or what they give off anyway) than by their looks.

I've often said of the actors I find good-looking "you have to see them in motion." Because, for some reason, I find people more attractive when they're talking. Again, probably because of the humour/intelligence/kindness they give off.

But they are actors. It is a performance. Even when they're in an interview and being more or less themselves... none of us is 100% ourselves when talking to our doctors or to a prospective employer, are we? It is a performance. We all want to put our best foot forward. And actors are more talented in that department.

I'll bring up Will Smith again. I've been charmed by him for decades now. I don't know if the slap was indicative of a recent development in his private life or maybe he's been "hiding" this violence the whole time. My point is that it's been decades where I never would have thought he could do something like that. And that makes you think twice about forming opinions of people you have never met and wouldn't really know even if you did.

LilMouse 04-11-2022 05:48 PM

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I was uncomfortable the whole time I was there and had to use my asthma pump just to get through it. And still my dad would argue with me "they don't smoke inside the house." Have you tried telling their house that?

Because I didn't see anyone smoke inside, but it felt like walking into an ashtray.
Ugh, I feel your pain. Whenever I'm around a smoker I can't breathe and my eyes water. And I don't even have asthma, so I can only imagine how many times worse it is for you.

And even if they didn't smoke inside, smoke has a way of seeping through cracks and getting in.

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According to my dad, my grandmother "swapped" valuable older furniture sets for more fashionable stuff (and, thus, rapidly useless) following some persuasion by a salesman. I mean, I never saw the older stuff (obviously) so it's hard to tell if it was genuinely valuable or just old.

My point is that destroying valuable historical character happens all the time, to everyone, under all kinds of circumstances.
My sister (after having a bedroom set for 30+ years) exchanged broken pieces for our grandmother's even older stuff that is still beautiful and in one piece. I can't imagine cheap stuff from today lasting 70+ years.

And there used to be a girl who posted on :ff: who would change out her furniture every 5 years. I saw that as a huge waste of money. All she was doing was replacing cheaply made stuff with other cheaply made stuff.
Her mind was boggled when I said the youngest furniture I had in my home was 30 years old.

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I'm not 100% sure, but I think that, as long as he was king, Henry could keep whichever ones of his children he wanted legitimate regardless of divorcing their mothers. I mean, Henry's father only had a claim to the throne because his mother (Magaret Beaufort), an illegitmate daughter, was made legitimate after the fact.
In a parallel universe, the answer is known for sure ;)

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I just don't know how you go about calculating that. Some 22-year-olds have more maturity than some 50-year-olds. Doesn't mean I'd want to see a 22-year-old and a 50-year-old in a relationship.
Same. Also because of the fact that what can people of these ages possibly have in common or have to converse about?

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I'll bring up Will Smith again. I've been charmed by him for decades now. I don't know if the slap was indicative of a recent development in his private life or maybe he's been "hiding" this violence the whole time. My point is that it's been decades where I never would have thought he could do something like that. And that makes you think twice about forming opinions of people you have never met and wouldn't really know even if you did.
It kind of fits in the "don't meet your idols" category. Because if you get to spend a whole 24 hours with them, or maybe 72 hours with them, what behavior are you going to witness that you really don't like?

sunnykerr 04-11-2022 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilMouse (Post 106224045)
Ugh, I feel your pain. Whenever I'm around a smoker I can't breathe and my eyes water. And I don't even have asthma, so I can only imagine how many times worse it is for you.

And even if they didn't smoke inside, smoke has a way of seeping through cracks and getting in.

I have so many comments. :lol: First of all, I don't buy that a couple living alone would not smoke in their own house. They may crack a window when they do, but why would they stop themselves? It's their house. They live alone. Their children are grown. (And are all smokers anyhow...)

Also, I got my asthma from my dad. So I don't understand what's going on with him, but his refusal to acknowledge the stench is some powerful form of denial.


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My sister (after having a bedroom set for 30+ years) exchanged broken pieces for our grandmother's even older stuff that is still beautiful and in one piece. I can't imagine cheap stuff from today lasting 70+ years.

And there used to be a girl who posted on :ff: who would change out her furniture every 5 years. I saw that as a huge waste of money. All she was doing was replacing cheaply made stuff with other cheaply made stuff.
Her mind was boggled when I said the youngest furniture I had in my home was 30 years old.
I'm in no position to point fingers. My entire house is furnished with IKEA furniture. And that's not to knock it. It's solid and it's lasted me a good decade now. But if I could afford it, I would love to have "real" furniture. Again, I love history.

At the same time, I have owned three pieces of "historical" furniture. One was an uncomfortable wooden rocking chair my mother had used when we were kids. My SIL "comandeered" it when they had their second baby. I wasn't sad to let it go.

The second is my coffee table, which is super ordinary, but dates from back when my parents were still together, so it's literally older than I am. And it's solid, and I love it.

The third was my bed. When I first had a "bed," it was really just two mattresses on top of each other on the floor. When I was four, we (my brother and I) got real beds. They were the beds my mother and her siblings slept on as kids. It was sort of a twin, but not standard because it was so old. Old but cheap. Long story short, my mother grew up poor. Her father was supposed to be a priest and then, before he ever truly became one, he met my grandmother and the rest his history. So they were poor because he had no professional training and, well, French Canadians back then were mostly poor. :shrug:

Anyway, when they had kids, someone donated beds they had in their summer cottages. Only, back then, summer cottages were really just shacks in the wood somewhere.

By the time I got rid of that bed, we realized that the entire frame was warped. You couldn't really see it when it was dressed, but all the supports had warped with age and, well, no wonder I'd had back pain for years. :shrug:

I now have a queen-sized bed from IKEA and I love it. :) No more back pain.


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Same. Also because of the fact that what can people of these ages possibly have in common or have to converse about?
Honestly, creepiness issues aside, this is my biggest "problem" with couples that have a large age difference. (Again, none of those couples need my approval, but that doesn't stop me from having a general opinion.)

If you have two people who are more or less equally mature, want the same things, met as consenting adults, etc. that's all well and good. But if one of them is starting out their life as an adult and the other is nearing retirement... how does that work?

:shrug: How it works is none of my business. I just struggle to understand it.


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It kind of fits in the "don't meet your idols" category. Because if you get to spend a whole 24 hours with them, or maybe 72 hours with them, what behavior are you going to witness that you really don't like?
And because I can be quite the cynical person, I will add, if "all" you're spending with a person is 24-72 hours, how much can you trust the behaviour you see? Anyone can probably sustain a decent attitude for a couple of days. Conversely, if you're spending that amount of time with them while something really dramatic is going on in their lives that you don't know about (recent diagnosis, loved one has just died, break-up, etc.), you could be given the impression that they're a "worse" person than they normally are.

Mind you, now that I think about it, there are things that I find quite universal. For instance, I judge people who treat people who have less power than them badly. I don't care how awful a day you're having, it costs you nothing to *not* be snotty to a cashier.

LilMouse 04-12-2022 01:16 PM

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First of all, I don't buy that a couple living alone would not smoke in their own house. They may crack a window when they do, but why would they stop themselves? It's their house. They live alone. Their children are grown. (And are all smokers anyhow...)
My next door neighbor (the husband) was a smoker. He'd go outside to smoke but that could be because his wife (a non-smoker) made him go outside.

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Also, I got my asthma from my dad. So I don't understand what's going on with him, but his refusal to acknowledge the stench is some powerful form of denial.
Denial or addiction? Maybe the addiction is so strong that the smell doesn't even matter?

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Long story short, my mother grew up poor. Her father was supposed to be a priest and then, before he ever truly became one, he met my grandmother and the rest his history. So they were poor because he had no professional training and, well, French Canadians back then were mostly poor.
This is another family history you have that could make a great book. I could see the masses eating this up as a love story

I really like this HGTV show - Houses with History. They restore old, dilapidated houses and try to keep the historical elements within the house too.
IDK if you have a similar show to it in Canada? But I hope it comes back for another season



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But if one of them is starting out their life as an adult and the other is nearing retirement... how does that work?

How it works is none of my business. I just struggle to understand it.
I'm in my 30s and I struggle to relate to someone in their 20s. That's not even a huge gap.

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And because I can be quite the cynical person, I will add, if "all" you're spending with a person is 24-72 hours, how much can you trust the behaviour you see? Anyone can probably sustain a decent attitude for a couple of days. Conversely, if you're spending that amount of time with them while something really dramatic is going on in their lives that you don't know about (recent diagnosis, loved one has just died, break-up, etc.), you could be given the impression that they're a "worse" person than they normally are.
Makes me wonder, what is the amount of time it takes for a person to show their true self? I think it would take a month of constant contact before true self creeps in.
And you still kinda don't really know a person until a stressful situation shows what they're like.

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Mind you, now that I think about it, there are things that I find quite universal. For instance, I judge people who treat people who have less power than them badly. I don't care how awful a day you're having, it costs you nothing to *not* be snotty to a cashier.
:nod:
And talk about a short fuse if anything a cashier does/doesn't do is enough to set someone off.

sunnykerr 04-12-2022 06:16 PM

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Originally Posted by LilMouse (Post 106229390)
My next door neighbor (the husband) was a smoker. He'd go outside to smoke but that could be because his wife (a non-smoker) made him go outside.

Every smoker I have known did that. :nod: Makes sense when you live with non-smokers. But, in the case of my dad's BIL and SIL, they're both smokers and so are their adult children who no longer live at home anyway. So, I don't know, but aside from cracking a window open, I don't see why they would bother. :shrug:


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Denial or addiction? Maybe the addiction is so strong that the smell doesn't even matter?
But my dad stopped smoking before I was even born. Otherwise, I'd agree with you, for sure. :nod: I guess the mystery remains. :)


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This is another family history you have that could make a great book. I could see the masses eating this up as a love story
My mother's parents really had a true love story, for sure. Locally, poor French Canadiens getting a raw feal from life wouldn't be interesting, I don't think. For that generation, that was pretty much... par for the course. :shrug:

But it's nice to know there's one couple in my ancestry that truly loved each other. :lol: I mean, my parents did, too. At one time. :lol:


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I really like this HGTV show - Houses with History. They restore old, dilapidated houses and try to keep the historical elements within the house too.
IDK if you have a similar show to it in Canada? But I hope it comes back for another season
If it ever aired on HGTV Canada, I missed it. I saw it on a different channel. And it was called something else. We have HGTV Canada and another channel (now called Magnolia Network but it was the DIY Channel before the Gaines launched their channel). And that second channel is, like, syndication for older HGTV shows. Anyway, I loved that show. I really loved it.

I've seen so many HGTV shows just kill the character in older homes, it did my heart good to see one show where they seemed more interested in the history of the house than in making it "magazine ready."


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I'm in my 30s and I struggle to relate to someone in their 20s. That's not even a huge gap.
A person's 20s are just an odd period. :nod: You've still got a foot in both worlds, really. Like, a person in their 30s wouldn't have too much trouble understand a person in their 40s (barring the usual differences in personality, culture, likes/dislikes, etc.). And the difference between 18 and 24 is so much bigger than, say, 28 and 34 or, better yet, 38 and 44.

The further you get from 20, the more it seems like age differences don't matter so much.


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Makes me wonder, what is the amount of time it takes for a person to show their true self? I think it would take a month of constant contact before true self creeps in.
And you still kinda don't really know a person until a stressful situation shows what they're like.
We're getting psychological here. :lol: Some people will never show you who they truly are even if you know them for decades, either because they don't know themselves or because they're sociopaths.

Some people, what you see is what you get and the first ten minutes are pretty much all you need.

The problem is, it's not written on our foreheads which kind of person we are. So you just never know if the person in front of you is putting on a show or being themselves. That's the challenge.

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:nod:
And talk about a short fuse if anything a cashier does/doesn't do is enough to set someone off.
I have no patience for people demanding slave-like service from a person working on minimum wage. I have no patience for people thinking a person working a minimum wage job is worth less than a $500-an-hour lawyer.

And, to get back to celebrities, you know how I said that finding out they're a smoker would be an instant turnoff? So would hearing that they, even just the one time, uttered the words "don't you know who I am?" Sorry, but no. That's the magic spell to make me lose all respect, attraction, interest in a person.


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