Jasper1975

Actually Billy and Maria only knew each other from band camp. One summer. Not childhood. I don't think Billy knew anything really about Maria's family. He just knew her talent, and was able to push her towards that. And advocate for that. He was for Maria if she had pursued it someone who was outside this crazy alien chaos. A example of the dream she once had, and just like Liz had to find whether she wanted that life, or life with Michael for Liz, life with Max. So in that retrospect, Billy was a temptation.

I was curious about Maria's father as well...

I think a lot changed once they changed the direction after Vegas. Once they decided to write out Colin, and to kill off Alex. Whatever purposed Sean was going to have changed yet kept in the direction that he was a temptation for Liz. A example of that normal life.

The "Superman diamond" proposal was epic. My god that was romantic. She was so shocked and surprised, and was swept away even though she knew they were only 18. Loved it so much!

azure angel

Sometimes until today I can't believe they really went there, they hurt Max and Liz a lot, and what did we get in return ?, with that I do not say that I did not like the graduation because I did..

Jasper1975

Well we got our couple in the end. They could have been ended due to any of those obstacles. Liz could have walked away in "Destiny" and stayed gone. Or the pesky sex or baby. Or even she could have tried again after Departure and decided after Utah and California, that she couldn't do it anymore. She was sacrificing too much. She once had a very different dream. And she gave that up for a new life with Max. And she could have decided with graduation approaching that she had enough.

They did a lot to Max and Liz in only three seasons. But still there was something there to be able to achieve that happy ending. We can love the ending for our couple and have qualms with how it got there...

I might be able to spin for the show or advocate for their journey with love for the show, and all it's flaws, but definitely they gave fans cause to say enough is enough.

And yet in the end we got our happy ending. It was a very messy road to that happy ending...

And yet only in three seasons.

Amaranto

thanks

If Max and Liz had to go through all this in just three seasons, I do not want to imagine what would have happened if there were more seasons.

Jasper1975

It is pretty amazing how much they went through in only three seasons. Most shows would have spread it out. And given how often the show was in danger of cancellation, you would have thought they would take it easy to try to get the show to last longer before they hit us with the biggest hits...

They barely dated. And got engaged and married at 18. And only really together only for short spurts of time.

azure angel

After s2 we were in the safe place.

Jasper1975

At least Season 3 was a little more realistic, human emotion based as they dealt with the fallout of Season 1. They weren't safe by any means, but were at least trying to make it work with things getting in the way. Disapproving fathers. Family dysfunctions. Senior Year and graduation.

But given it lasted only three years, there was a tremendous a lot there for Max and Liz to go through. Michael and Maria had their dysfunctions, but at least they didn't have it as bad. Their issues were more based on who Michael was, his baggage and then grappling with the reality of being in the alien chaos.

But because Max and Liz was the lead duo, everything was magnified for them. He was King!

azure angel

I really believe the writers forgot who the main duo were at some point

Jasper1975

Nah. I think they were always aware of it. But other things took front stage for awhile, but given the level of angst given to Max and Liz, over say Michael and Maria who got their own level of angst but not to the level of Max and Liz... The show was always aware who were the leads...

You don't give obstacle after obstacle if they weren't aware. They were playing into the drama of it given the show, and how easy it was to do so despite the fact that the show was struggling, and could be gone any moment.

They might have given Max and Liz a easier ride if they felt it was more of a essemble show, and Max and Liz weren't the lead duo.

Nope, they took the idea that Max was "King" of Antar and therefore, the angst needed to be there because on television...as in writing fan fiction LOL, happy is hard to deal with... So they give the drama and the angst even if Max and Liz deserved some time to be happy for more than a episode or so.

azure angel

I would say we got more drama than they could ever handle it.

Amaranto

YEAH it was always obvious to me that Max and Liz were endgame, that's why I did not see all that **** coming.

Jasper1975

I may be the biggest defender of the show and all it's faults LOL. But I even think some of those obstacles was way over the line, and should have been tone down. I don't know how they thought the baby storyline would go over well with fans given the show was struggling and was facing almost sure cancellation.

I know you shouldn't write to please the fans. And do what you think is best for the storyline. But that baby storyline didn't help the show, or the storyline.

Max and Liz's storyline in Season 3 was largely appropriate for the show, and for the couple given they were facing graduation and getting older and had to deal with the consequences of Season 2. But the baby storyline was going overboard for drama sake.

The only thing I can think of is they didn't know a good way to make Tess a villian in the end, and all of a sudden after months of making her tolerable with Kyle and Jim. So revealing that this was all a plan that Nascedo planned back when they all came to earth, and before the pods were birthed so that Tess was a victim of enviornment and being raised by a mad man who had plans for her, and it was hard to go against 10 years of being raised by someone over months with Jim and Kyle who treated her like family.

Heck in Vegas, I think Tess appreciated that Jim cared about her enough when he ranted at the gang for going over state lines without warning for their Spring Break, that he called back and told her to come back with him and Kyle and considered her family...

So for her to backstab Kyle and Jim like that... So they needed a reason. And a baby as a result of sex when Max was a emotional mess due to Alex's death was a way to go...

How they planned to deal with it, I don't know...

But they were planning on Departure as a potential series finale, and probably hadn't considered what happened next.

azure angel

The baby plot killed the show

Jasper1975

Well the show was already going down, I don't think it killed it. It didn't help matters especially with fans. But the show as struggling from day 1, so the show really was fighting a losing battle. But the story line did no favors, which is mystifying why do it especially when they were trying to save the show!

Amaranto

^ OK but certainly conditioned the show.