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Old 09-30-2013, 06:47 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post)
That is certainly true.

Professional politicians in the United States have a vested interest in corporations.

(And I dare say, the United States isn't the only place where that's true. But, this being the U.S. political discussion thread, I won't venture into that.)

At present, though, the Democrats aren't the one holding government hostage.
That's true on both accounts. It's just sad that workers are going to go without pay until they come to a consensus. This affects real people and real families. It's easy for these yahoos cause they are rich and don't have to worry about not being able to pay rent or mortgages.
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:57 AM
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Well, I've been furloughed, hence having the time to post. Even though I wont be taking home a paycheck myself, congress will still take one home.

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Members of Congress will have no such dilemma about the future of their own finances this week because the 27th Amendment to the Constitution specifically stipulates that the salaries of the House and Senate cannot change until a congressional election has come and gone. Members of both chambers currently make $174,000.

The 27th Amendment was originally hatched by the Founding Fathers and ratified in 1992 to prevent senators and House members from boosting their own salaries before an election. But the reality is that Congress is now the only class explicitly protected by the Constitution from financial pain in the event that they themselves fail to fund regular government operations. Even their own congressional staff members will be furloughed or go to work on Capitol Hill without the promise of getting paid once the dust settles.
How Congress Will Still Get Paid in a Government Shutdown - The Daily Beast
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:48 PM
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So it actually has come to the worst, the shutdown's become reality.

One CNN (or BBC, can't remember anymore) anchor said it best today in my view: This shutdown's basically a self-affliced economic wound.

And all this is happening just because Republicans are scared to death that the electorate may come to find out that 'Obamacare' is actually good for them.

This opinion piece describes the current situation best in my view: Obamacare’s real danger for the GOP is that it will succeed

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Well, I've been furloughed, hence having the time to post.
I'm so sad to hear about that

Hopefully Congress will come to its senses again soon.
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:43 PM
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Of course that makes perfect sense from the individual politician's point of view, but I still fail to see how a party advocating against affordable health care for everyone still has such a wide base amongst the electorate.

Don't people grasp how the GOP is basically only making politics for corporate America and the rich as it is now?
I think there are just a lot of people who don't read up on things and just blindly follow whoever people in their area are standing for. I don't know how an informed voter could vote for someone who never gets anything done, makes lives harder for the vast majority of Americans and is willing to shut the government down because they disagree with health care reform, but it still happens. Maybe they actually believe the attack ads the GOP throws off during every election?
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:16 PM
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Christina, agreed.

You both are spot on when you say that people who don't know what they are talking about are some of the most vocal. This was hard to watch:

Jimmy Kimmel Asks Pedestrians If They Prefer Obamacare Or The Affordable Care Act
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:19 PM
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I think this may perhaps be some of that weird incarnation American patriotism takes on sometimes.

And, before anyone takes offense to that, please understand that I don't mean that American patriotism is bad or unfounded.

I just think that, sometimes, it extends into areas where it's a little dodgy.

Because pretty much all industrialized countries have a form of socialized health care and it's been, you know, just fine.

But a big chunk of the American identity is (a) the notion that the United States is the best country in the whole world and (b) the fact that it's a country where people who work hard will succeed.

So, if the United States is the best there is at everything, then you don't need to import ideas from other countries. Especially not socialized ones. And, if the American dream is that hard work leads to success, leads to being able to take care of yourself and your loved ones, then you don't need to plan ahead or you already have.

And, again, I have many American friends. I don't consider myself smarter than anyone out there.

I just think it wouldn't be hard to sell people on the idea that the status quo is the best scenario.

Meanwhile, though, you probably have the same aging population in the United States as you have elsewhere and that's a financial burden a country that large needs to prepare for.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:50 AM
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I think there are just a lot of people who don't read up on things and just blindly follow whoever people in their area are standing for. I don't know how an informed voter could vote for someone who never gets anything done, makes lives harder for the vast majority of Americans and is willing to shut the government down because they disagree with health care reform, but it still happens. Maybe they actually believe the attack ads the GOP throws off during every election?
Sadly, I guess that's really the case. When you look at these pedestrian interviews and Michele Bachmann posing with veterans (who were kept from visiting the World War II memorial due to the shutdown) and blaming Obamacare... Seems like Republicans simply are the better rhetoricians.

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Oh my. Thank you so much for posting that -- I guess after having watched that, nothing's gonna surprise me anymore
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:49 PM
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Maybe the Republicans think they can win back the higher ground through rhetoric.

The sad truth is, though, that if this lasts much longer, the citizens are likely going to start blaming the entire government, wholesale.

And, you know, they'll have good reasons to be pissed at either side.

But the fact that this is on the GOP's unwillingness to do what's right will get lost in the shuffle.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:09 PM
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christina, isnt it nuts?

This is another thing that is nuts:

This could all be over but Boehner is too afraid of the tea party to bring it to the floor:

Quote:
WASHINGTON -- Less than two days after the government shut down, there are now more than 17 Republicans who say they're ready to pass a bill to fund the government with no strings attached, giving the House the votes it needs to pass a clean funding bill.

All 200 Democrats would need to stick together and team up with those Republicans to pass the bill, but House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) would have to be willing to put it to a vote, which so far he has given no indication he will do. But if he does, the votes appear to be there. The Senate would pass the bill in no time, sending it to be signed by President Barack Obama and ending the shutdown.

Read the tally here to see who those House Republicans are, and why they say they're done with trying to force through provisions on Obamacare before agreeing to keep the government running.
House Now Has The Votes To End Government Shutdown, But It Won't
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:35 PM
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The sad truth is, though, that if this lasts much longer, the citizens are likely going to start blaming the entire government, wholesale.
Well Americans should be blaming Congress and the President. Congress hasn't been functioning in the best interest of the citizens in a very long time. When was the last time we had a proper budget? The Presidents rhetoric of not compromising isn't helpful. In my opinion, Washington has totally lost site of their jobs.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:25 PM
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But the fact that this is on the GOP's unwillingness to do what's right will get lost in the shuffle.
If opinion polls are to be believed, the majority of Americans is blaming the current situation on the Republicans right now. Of course, this might change dramatically should the shutdown last much longer.

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This could all be over but Boehner is too afraid of the tea party to bring it to the floor:
I think many Republicans being afraid to risk their careers by speaking up against the Tea Party extremists is the key issure here, yeah.

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Well Americans should be blaming Congress and the President. Congress hasn't been functioning in the best interest of the citizens in a very long time. When was the last time we had a proper budget? The Presidents rhetoric of not compromising isn't helpful. In my opinion, Washington has totally lost site of their jobs.
Well, Obama wants to get the Affordable Care Act through and isn't willing to cave on that matter, which I can totally relate to. 45 million (I believe) Americans will get the chance to finally have some sort of health insurance -- it is beyond me that the Republicans are willing to cause all that mayhem we're witnessing right now just because they're opposed to the passing of one law. If that's considered a legitimate democratic tool... Nice prospects!
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:14 PM
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Well, Obama wants to get the Affordable Care Act through and isn't willing to cave on that matter, which I can totally relate to. 45 million (I believe) Americans will get the chance to finally have some sort of health insurance -- it is beyond me that the Republicans are willing to cause all that mayhem we're witnessing right now just because they're opposed to the passing of one law. If that's considered a legitimate democratic tool... Nice prospects!
I want to see comprising and civility. Crazy I know...

Last edited by Ann357; 10-03-2013 at 02:20 PM
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:19 PM
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Getting Americans their much-needed health insurance is a cornerstone of Obama's political agenda.

He already 'caved' on other issues before, I can see why he wants to get at least that through.

The US is not the only country in the world that's suffered from the financial crisis, but that hasn't stopped other nations from maintaining governmental health care for their citizens.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:25 PM
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Getting Americans their much-needed health insurance is a cornerstone of Obama's political agenda.

He already 'caved' on other issues before, I can see why he wants to get at least that through.

The US is not the only country in the world that's suffered from the financial crisis, but that hasn't stopped other nations from maintaining governmental health care for their citizens.
I don't know much about health care systems in other countries but it seems like a bad time to start one here since most Americans will not compromise in other areas.
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Old 10-03-2013, 02:37 PM
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Thanks for that article. yeah it's annoying about the shutdown, there was a shooting there today. I don't think that will change anything.
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