[wickedrum]

oh, Elena's double standards are going on my nerves as well.

[sunnykerr]

At the end of the day, we like what we like and we don't like what we don't like.

I think that's fair enough.

But I do think, in fiction anyway, that things like audience sympathy and/or redemption have to be earned.

I watch probably too much television, really, even if this is one show I don't watch, but ir really galls me how so many take us, as an audience, either for granted or for complete idiots.

[wickedrum]

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) I watch probably too much television, really, even if this is one show I don't watch, but ir really galls me how so many take us, as an audience, either for granted or for complete idiots.

I don't think TVD quite makes it into that category most days, but quite a lot of tv programmes do treat us like sheep. Just set the viewer in front of the tv, they'll watch anything! Especially some reality shows and talk shows give you that vibe, which is the reason I completely avoid those. What an insult to humankind!

[sunnykerr]

Well, if a rapist is meant to be treated as a romantic hero...

That'd be an aspect in which I would feel like I was being treated like a complete idiot.



I haven't watched the show in a long time. But I certainly hope they had Damon go through some serious soul-searching and penance if the audience is supposed to accept that Elena would find him anything but repulsive as a potential romantic object.

[Regulus-Fan]

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) Well, if a rapist is meant to be treated as a romantic hero... That'd be an aspect in which I would feel like I was being treated like a complete idiot.

This.

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) I haven't watched the show in a long time. But I certainly hope they had Damon go through some serious soul-searching and penance if the audience is supposed to accept that Elena would find him anything but repulsive as a potential romantic object.

That´s the problem ... he hasn´t. The final dialog between Delena was basically him telling the same he always did, I´m selfish and I do bad things and I just don´t care. And Elena´s answer this time was, that she doesn´t care, she just loves him and she isn´t sorry anymore to act on those feelings.
The story isn´t about Damon redeeming himself or questioning his actions it´s just about four seasons letting Elena care less and less about how this man treats her and her family/friends and that was the final moment of this progression and basically the nail in the coffin for me in regards to both characters.

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) I watch probably too much television, really, even if this is one show I don't watch, but ir really galls me how so many take us, as an audience, either for granted or for complete idiots.

Oh JP as a producer definitely thinks that or she is just so naive and ignorant that I can´t even explain how it is possible that she doesn´t realize her fans aren´t that easy to fool. Her writing has been called out for so long, but she just doesn´t see any mistakes in what she is doing.

But she has different reaction mechanisms whenever a fan comes at her. When somebody asks something about Bonnie and how she is treated badly by the writing and her friends (because lets be real how they treated her for four seasons is unacceptable and she should have left the town a long time ago), she gets offended because she thinks the person right there thinks she is "racist" and she runs to one of the actors on the show and complains about those fans to him and then lets him call those fans out and attack them and also tweet racists stuff while she is praising him for coming in and saving her from those cruel fans (which happened just around March/April 2012)

Or she just comments about how they must be a fan of the other ship if they ask questions about a storyline that is going on right now which they don´t understand.

[wickedrum]

Originally Posted by Regulus-Fan (View Post) Oh JP as a producer definitely thinks that or she is just so naive and ignorant that I can´t even explain how it is possible that she doesn´t realize her fans aren´t that easy to fool. Her writing has been called out for so long, but she just doesn´t see any mistakes in what she is doing. But she has different reaction mechanisms whenever a fan comes at her. When somebody asks something about Bonnie and how she is treated badly by the writing and her friends (because lets be real how they treated her for four seasons is unacceptable and she should have left the town a long time ago), she gets offended because she thinks the person right there thinks she is "racist" and she runs to one of the actors on the show and complains about those fans to him and then lets him call those fans out and attack them and also tweet racists stuff while she is praising him for coming in and saving her from those cruel fans (which happened just around March/April 2012) Or she just comments about how they must be a fan of the other ship if they ask questions about a storyline that is going on right now which they don´t understand.

Id like to see those tweets if you have them? She doesnt take suggestions or criticism in any form.

[sunnykerr]

Is it necessarily a tweeting situation?

[wickedrum]

thats where she primarily interacts with fans and Kat did mention it was tweets.

[sunnykerr]

Sorry.

Since the topic of tweets came so late in that paragraph, I hadn't realized it was implied to have been going on the whole time.

[ds44]

I am more concerned by the way they depict Bonnie and the producer's complete disregard for the complaints about issues relating to race.

[Regulus-Fan]

Originally Posted by ds44 (View Post) I am more concerned by the way they depict Bonnie and the producer's complete disregard for the complaints about issues relating to race.

Yup. But she is just ignoring those questions and I think it was implied that nobody really asks her questions like that in interviews. So twitter is the only way to ask her about this and there she blocks those questions or reacts really defensive.

Originally Posted by sunnykerr (View Post) Is it necessarily a tweeting situation?

You mean if she has mentioned it in interviews aswell? I really don´t know but like Rita mentioned it is the social media she primarly interacts with the fans.

Originally Posted by wickedrum (View Post) Id like to see those tweets if you have them? She doesnt take suggestions or criticism in any form.

Here starting with Incident 2 is the stuff about Bonnie/JP/Matt Davis ... don´t think everything is included because after that Matt Davis wrote two or three non-apologies but he published them after that post was made I think.

Here is the one where she just ignores the question of the fan and explains it with this persons shipping preferences.

There was another incidence where she asked a Bonnie fan who wanted Bonnie back alive the question "Why do you need her be human" ... I think this is pretty inconsiderate after all what she put her through the last four seasons. Especially after all she took her out of the show even more with that. Before that, she barely interacted with her friends but now as a ghost she will only be able to talk to Jeremy and if they don´t want to explore the other side then she will be only in an episode when Jeremy is there. And I´m just not here for this, this is not a powerful storyline when her problems with her friendship and that practical servitude to Elena´s well-being without any balance coming from Elena is not addressed. We just had Elena trying to kill her three episodes ago (twice) and then she said she didn´t care and we don´t even get a real apology from Elena (but she found the right words for the Salvatores who tortured her into bringing back her humanity).
She brought Jeremy back FOR Elena, not for herself like she did in season 2 ("I love him") but for Elena and this is so disgusting. They made everything about her death to be about Elena and how she would be happy. There was no mention about Bonnie or her dad and what it would mean to them. And then the writers want to tell us that her friends or her parents won´t question her whereabouts all summer if they do a time jump ... this is even more problematic.

[wickedrum]

thank you for the descriptions. Oh man. I was aware of some of that, but not all. I know that Julie is very disrespectful with fans (how is it she still has any given the treatment she gives them?). As for Bonnie, I think Julie sees her solely as a plot device, thus the vague and repetitive storylines.

I enjoy sailing on a ship for a while, but I don't judge a show by its ships. Julie however, sees us all in black and white, according to which shipper group we belong to. Well newsflash, we can see all the plotholes and mistakes and inconsistencies in the writing and building (sorry, what building?) of characters, especially lately and that is regardless of who we ship with who.

I believe her arrogance and less than perfect performance will catch up on her soon.

[ds44]

Originally Posted by wickedrum (View Post) thank you for the descriptions. Oh man. I was aware of some of that, but not all. I know that Julie is very disrespectful with fans (how is it she still has any given the treatment she gives them?). As for Bonnie, I think Julie sees her solely as a plot device, thus the vague and repetitive storylines. I enjoy sailing on a ship for a while, but I don't judge a show by its ships. Julie however, sees us all in black and white, according to which shipper group we belong to. Well newsflash, we can see all the plotholes and mistakes and inconsistencies in the writing and building (sorry, what building?) of characters, especially lately and that is regardless of who we ship with who. I believe her arrogance and less than perfect performance will catch up on her soon.

I just find her glaring ignorance disturbing and the fact that she repeatedly gets rewarded for it bugs me. She is in a rare position as one of a handful female showrunner. Instead of trying to write a good story for all of her characters, seh continues to twist the writing to suit her single-girl fantasies. As for Bonnie, it's not just that she uses her as a plot device, she's glaringly unaware of the negative message she is sending to P-O-C.

[sunnykerr]

Is this thread really quiet because it's summer?

[Drunk On You]

I suppose so.

Could always post a topic to discuss.