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Old 09-25-2019, 03:58 PM
  #271
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Well again, it wasnt Nicole decision, it was Cliff's decision. So we cant really put that on her. She wanted to keep Tommy. But Cliff wasn't going for it.

Its true if it were her/tommy/jackson right now that tommy had a chance to win and he would have taken her to final 2, but i also feel like she for sure would have lost. If Holly does end up winning and taking her (long shot, but nicole's been campaigning and making good points) then Nicole has a good chance to win.

As long as Nicole is AFP i am gonna be okay. She's gonna know how loved she is after the show.

Kaycee should have cut Tyler in the end but I am glad she didn't because I didn't want JC in the final 2 lol. I did enjoy seeing those two again though, even though I ragged on them a lot in bb20 and still am not a fan of some things they've done, i still enjoyed them as people 10x more than anyone this season (other than nicole).

But HELLO BB, you bring back everyone from 20 except my girl Haleigh, like wTF is that.
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Old 09-25-2019, 07:23 PM
  #272
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Did Jackson’s answer to the question about he treated women just tank this for him? That was an AWFUL answer! He didn’t even apologize. He’s just spewing out some of his metaphors.

Holly’s doing better than I thought she would, but she’s still jumbled. I think she stands a chance, though.

I still hate this jury Q&A format, though.



ETA: Bravo, Ovi. Wish he’d gone farther. I do love what he said.
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Old 09-25-2019, 08:03 PM
  #273
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Call it what it is they were being racist they still got off easy imo.
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Old 09-25-2019, 08:04 PM
  #274
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Zzzzz predictable result everyone saw coming. The only thing I liked was when they were called out for the bullying, the racism, and nasty Nick "cheating" on b*tchy Bella (karma if you ask me, cause I didn't forget how awful she was in the house and I heard she had a boyfriend when she went in there anyway. Nick was also apparently groping and cuddling with everyone in the house, he's a walking VD) I'm glad Kemi got to talk, I thought they would mute her. I'm also glad she said that people need to know what their apologizing for (IE Christie, Jackson, and Nick) Jack at least seemed like he genuinely apologized for it. I'm glad they brought up how Jackson exiled the three minorities and the oldest person in the house. I instantly caught that, he might deny it but it wasn't just all strategy. Especially when they kept only targeting the POC at first and said racist things. It's also hilarious how after Jackson won he seemed shook for being called out for that and other racist things he said. Yeah, well that's what happens when you say prejudice things (including him and Jack saying the N word a couple of times in there I heard) while on camera 24/7. Idiot. Glad Nicole won AFP, don't buy that Tommy was in the top three with her and Cliff. Last I heard, people hated Tommy but BB is usually full of it now anyway. It's sickening a racist who BB was biased towards won but it was obvious he was going to win. Good riddance to this season but when they got dragged for being racist bullies was the best part of the finale to me lmao!!!
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Old 09-25-2019, 08:09 PM
  #275
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Yes I loved Kemi not accepting those weak apologies. that was all for show we saw who these people really were off camera.

Glad Nicole won 25k tho
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Old 09-26-2019, 04:53 AM
  #276
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That was such an uncomfortable finale.
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Old 09-26-2019, 04:29 PM
  #277
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I thought the finale was better than last year. They seemed to have a bit more time for the things that mattered imo.

I still think they could do both parts in one episode and then the final part in the last episode.

It sounds like post interviews that Nicole would have won if she was in final 2.


Bummed she was out 3rd but I had a feeling Jackson was going to win part 2. I was kinda hoping for a bitter jury. But if I were a jury member I'd prob. both for Jackson too, as he did play a better game than Holly. Holly's rambling with her answers would have turned me off.

SO GLAD NICOLE WON AFP!!!



Julie came for everyone didn't she? I am glad she addressed the comments made in the house and the bullying of Nicole because that was not cool, but I think that accusing Jackson of being racist was a bit off, because I do think his explanation for who he voted for into camp comeback makes sense, despite how bad it looked. As for saying the N word, I still dont think that clip was clear nd want an explanation of that one.... However, he did make micro aggressive comments. I wish instead she had asked him about those and other things (like saying Jessica should go back to mexico) and the things he said to some of the women. iMO that would have been more justified. Kat also ragged on Kemi, and I am surprised they dint talk about that. And Im irritated they didnt talk to Nick about all his creepiness this season.

I think this stuff needs to be called out but these people have been in the house for 99 days and arent going to remember everything they said, so how can they truly apologize when they dont know what comments they are referencing? But I do think post interviews need to bring them up.

It was sort of funny though to see Jacksons sad face as he won the game though.... Yikes. He looked like the most disappointed winner ever haha.
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Old 09-26-2019, 10:30 PM
  #278
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From the things I heard, Jackson is racist (and saying Jessica needs to go back to Mexico is racist) It was hilarious that he looked like he was going to the gas chamber when he won though. Too bad, so sad bigot lol. I'm glad the season is over.
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Old 09-27-2019, 05:35 AM
  #279
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I needed to take a day to really gather my thoughts on all of this.

This was definitely a . . . memorable finale. Definitely not in the way that CBS wants it to be memorable, but at the same time, it generates a lot of talk about the show. The actual HOH was predictable, and the jury roundtable wasn’t particularly electric. Sad to see Nicole go, even though it was inevitable, but it was quite obvious she was winning AFP, and that was a real highlight (and in fact one of the only positive highlights) of the episode. She’s one of the few cast members I think CBS will ask back for another season, and I’m glad she’s out of the house now and able to see how much people liked her and rooted for her this season. Cliff and Tommy being the other highest vote getters makes sense, too. Tommy’s exit, whether you like him or not, was pretty heartbreaking for him as a superfan. And he was a lot more tolerable towards the end. And then you have Cliff, whose game certainly lacked at the end, but who defied the BB trend of the “old guy” not making it very far, and he is a super nice person.

The jury Q&A still leaves so much to be desired. It’s like, “Oh, hey, we’re going to give you about 8 minutes to explain a game you played for nearly 100 days.” Which is ridiculous and not really fair. I miss the old format so much, but I know it’s not coming back. So like Alexa, I think they could do both parts of the HOH on Sunday, then just do the final part on finale night, thereby leaving at least a little bit more time for the jury Q&A. Maybe even do a reunion show afterward like Survivor and bring back the pre-jury people there.

Jackson’s answers were very prepared but a bit too rigid for my liking, and his response to the question about how he treated women was especially lacking. Not even an apology. All he said was “I never did that,” yet the jury members were saying, “You did this! You made us feel this certain way.” Flabberghasting. Even if he didn’t intend to come off that way to anyone, he did, and that warrants an apology. Now Holly’s answers, on the other hand . . . she actually surprised me. Yes, she rambled at times, but she had some good power punch lines in there at times and made about as much of a case as she could have up against someone who, let’s face it, did carry her through the game to an extent (i.e. at the final 5).

So Jackson winning . . . well, I’m just gonna be honest, I’m not furious about it. I do see what he did to earn it. If it was just the comp wins, I’d be more skeptical, but making up that huge lie to get Tommy out really was a huge move, and it deserves credit. It’s one of the biggest strategic moves we’ve seen in a long time, and I do respect that. It’s hard because I don’t enjoy Jackson’s personality at all, but I also can acknowledge that he did play hard. I do think that, from a gameplay perspective, he earned it.

Yeah, he didn’t even look happy to win, though. He probably wanted to just stay in the house instead of going back out into the real world. And I have a lot of thoughts on this. I’m not mad at CBS for bringing it up, but I think the way they did it with Jack after his eviction was much better. They showed him the receipts, so he knew what he was apologizing for. The others must have felt pretty blindsided, and like Kemi said, it’s hard to accept apologies when people don’t know what they’re apologizing for. Again, a reunion show could give them more time to show the receipts here.

The whole thing about Jackson being racist for exiling David, Kemi, Jess . . . I don’t know what to feel about this. I understand that it’s not a good look. I understand that Jackson could have an implicit bias. But I gotta say, I think he had good reason to exile those 3 plus Cliff. I don’t understand why the viewers made such a huge deal out of this, tbh, and I don’t blame Jackson for feeling very taken aback by this. I would have, too. His reasoning for that decision made sense. I imagine that people who just watched the TV show and never dig deeper into the season (i.e. watching feeds or listening to live feed spoilers or going on Twitter) probably felt very puzzled by what they saw directed at Jackson tonight, because his edit didn’t show any of it. Which was a strange choice by CBS.

What message does all of this send to future players? Don’t vote someone out because they’re a minority? I hope not, and I don’t think it will. Everyone is there to play the same game and is there to win. I think the message should be, You can and should play hard, but pay attention to how you treat people along the way, regardless of what race, age, gender they may be, because it will affect your life outside of the house. It’s very possible to play the game full force while also still representing yourself well. Look at last season’s final 2. Tyler and Kaycee both did it.

I also don’t understand why some viewers are celebrating this controversy, actively finding joy in the way this guy is getting dragged through the mud. I don’t like a lot of these houseguests, but I think allegations of racism are huge and are nothing to find joy in no matter how it pans out. Personally, I don’t wish any of these people any kind of anguish or suffering. I hope that the ones who did or said some questionable things reflect on it, learn from it, and grow as people. And I think that anyone who is being especially cruel and horrendous to any of these cast members should take a good, long look in the mirror and ask themselves, “By tweeting this or commenting with these words, am I part of the problem or the solution? Am I really acting any better than these contestants did?” No one is perfect. I know that, even as an adult, I’ve said and done things I regret, and I will say and do things I regret in the future, too. But I hope that I will learn from them and become a better person as a result, and that is my hope for many members of this season’s cast, too.

And another thing . . . CBS decides to call out the racism allegations here, yet they had a producer this season who told Kemi to act and talk more stereotypically black in the DR? Hmm. Interesting. So CBS likes to call out its contestants on it on live TV, (because they know it generates buzz and media coverage), but when it’s someone on their own team, they like to sweep it under the rug. That’s convenient. And I think what that producer said is a far more blatant example of racism than, for instance, Jack’s “rice pudding” comment, that may or may not have had a legitimate explanation behind it.

I did, however, like that they brought up the treatment of Nicole and called it out as bullying. Exclusion is a very cruel form of bullying, and the exclusion was obvious in that moment, in conjunction with the verbal attacks going on behind those doors. Ovi spoke very well about this. (Nice guy, that Ovi.)

Overall . . . I enjoyed the season more than I did BB19, because the strategy was interesting and complex at the end. I think next season, they need to make casting a top priority, though. All of this could be avoided if they just cast better people. I want to see superfans, and I want to see people from all different backgrounds and walks of life, people of all different AGES! Please! I’m 30 now myself, and I would like to see more people in their 30s, 40s, or beyond.
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Old 09-27-2019, 12:09 PM
  #280
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The questioning isn't really fair but in the past most jurors said their decisions were already made. I mean, thats why social interactions in the house and jury management in the goodbye messages are so important, because the speeches at the end prob. wont sway people too much. but thats your last shot to really remind people what you did.

I would love to see a reunion show afterwards too. That is where they can address those comments and stuff.

Quote:
Jackson’s answers were very prepared but a bit too rigid for my liking, and his response to the question about how he treated women was especially lacking. Not even an apology. All he said was “I never did that,” yet the jury members were saying, “You did this! You made us feel this certain way.” Flabberghasting. Even if he didn’t intend to come off that way to anyone, he did, and that warrants an apology.
I agree. I think he was trying to come off very calm but it came off robotic and I too didnt like his response to Tommy's question. Like you said, he basically responded with "Im not disprespectful." lol. Thats not the way to do it. He should have just apologized and said he would have to reflect on things he said. That might have gone over better.

Did Jackson earn the win, sure. But did he deserve it? IDK. I dont really like that word because personally I dont think someone that has been so offensive all season deserves to be rewarded. On top of that he cheated with slop and he also was part of one of the worst alliances in bb history imo.

I actually have more respect for lone wolves like nicole that have to fight to get to the end either by social interactions or by winning a few comps that matter rather than someone like jackson, who, when he didnt win, he had his showmance win for him. So he wasn't even an option to go up.


Quote:
I don’t understand why the viewers made such a huge deal out of this, tbh,
I dont remember them ever showing us his explanation for nominating those three but it was early in the season so I dont remember. And regardless of it being the three people that were vying for counselor, like Kemi was still thrown in there too. I just thought it was very very strange that all the minorities were lumped in there. It was a very bad look I think anyone would know not to do that, but maybe Jackson is just SO sheltered and unaware that he didnt think of it. IDK. Its def. weird though. I think it stems more from unknown racism thats there within him but maybe hes not completely aware of it.

In any regard, I dont have respect for that move. None of those people were huge threats. It seemed to me he went for the "easy" targets.


Quote:
What message does all of this send to future players? Don’t vote someone out because they’re a minority?
Well I think that the show needs to cast more minorities so that when they do vote out one, its not this huge red flag. On top of that, 3 in a row left right after the other to the majority of white houseguests, so I think that says a lot too.

I agree that we need to see more people in their 30's and older.
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Old 09-27-2019, 03:53 PM
  #281
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I can’t remember if they showed Jackson’s explanation for his choice of those 4 on the show or not, although I think they did. And he did say the exact same thing when questioned about it on finale night. It was so early on, so he didn’t have much to base his decision on, and it seems logical to me to put up the 3 people who also campaigned for camp director and Kemi, who hadn’t talked to him about it. And I don’t think someone should have to be worried about whether a decision like that looks good or not when they’re playing a game and making a strategic decision. And I do believe that’s what it was. So I actually kind of cringed when Julie brought that up, because that’s not a question of something that was directly said and captured on the feeds. That’s a possible implicit bias, and I think it would have been better to let Jackson go home, read the headlines, and reflect on it rather than to toss that out at him on the spot.

Despite the unlikable alliance and his unlikable personality, I do still think he deserved to win. But man, I forgot about him cheating with the slop thing. They might as well just get rid of Have Nots for all time now. They’ve set the standard of not enforcing that rule and not penalizing someone, so if they try to be stricter about it next season, it’s just going to make them look silly. I miss the older seasons when there were Have Not competitions. Those were often pretty fun and creative.

I get that most jurors have already made their minds up, but last season Haleigh changed hers during the questioning (which I really applaud her for, because it goes to show that she was really listening to responses and had still kept as open of a mind as possible). I just wish these finalists really had time to go in depth on explaining their games. A few minutes is just not long enough, and you end up with these rushed speeches that really tend to lack the oomph and charisma the speeches once had. (Love him or hate him, Mike Boogie’s responses to the questions in All Stars were incredible, and because he wasn’t so rushed, he was able to punctuate them with the effect he wanted. Made for better viewing, too, I think.)

I’m wondering what CBS has in store for Big Brother next. It seems we’re getting something in the winter, but I haven’t heard that it will be a celebrity season, so I doubt it will be. I’ve heard rumblings of an abbreviated All-Stars, but I’m greedy and want a full season All-Stars. I’ve also heard rumblings of another Over the Top season, but I didn’t watch BB OTT.
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Old 09-27-2019, 10:29 PM
  #282
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I don't have sympathy for racists and bullies, and I bet Jackson won't learn from this. His mom will continue to shelter him and delude him I bet, just like she was attacking people on Twitter or threatening to sue CBS cause his assault records came out or whatever. He's pigheaded and I bet he will think he did nothing wrong or acted racist and go back to being a huge douchebag. As for the first exiles, he took the easy way out IE the POC and the older person. They are ALWAYS the first targets on BB (and sometimes Survivor. On Survivor they usually try to always go for the older person as the first vote off RME) He kept saying Kemi didn't talk to him but I heard her say after she was evicted she did talk to Jackson (just didn't kiss his ass lol) He was threatened by David and kept telling everyone he is a Cancer to the house when he barely knew him. I still think it was subconcisouly racist and prejudice that he exiled three POC and the oldest houseguest for sure. Then it didn't help they kept targeting them one by one. AWFUL look. I also agree that he didn't deserve it for cheating with the Have Nots by always eating then they got rid of the whole thing all together cause they didn't want to discipline him or give him a punishment. I also heard rumors production helped Jackson on the last Veto comp. After them letting him break the rules with the slop, that wouldn't shock me if it was true. Especially when BB has been rigging it for their favorites for years.

I said before I hate how they do the finale now. Julie gets a huge stick up her ass and malfunctions if they go over time answering the jury questions. Damn, they have been in there for three months and have to explain their game moves to the jury, let them talk. They are the ones that changed the format ten years ago out of desperation cause people hated Natalie on BB11. It should go back to how it was: The final two answering the INDIVIDUAL jury questions was taped and after they answer their questions, the jury discuss it. Then the live finale has the final votes, pre jurors, and clips. I know that won't happen though cause BB is a totally different show now (rigged, commercialized, and scripted. With a majority of the cast being fame whores that never watched the show before. I also hate how they mostly cast 20 year olds and only have one token POC and older person) so I agree they need to have a reunion show, especially when they could of been shown clips of the sick things they said.
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Old 09-27-2019, 11:44 PM
  #283
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Well I think that the show needs to cast more minorities so that when they do vote out one, its not this huge red flag. On top of that, 3 in a row left right after the other to the majority of white houseguests, so I think that says a lot too.
^^ This!

as much as I like the show, that would always be the first things i would notice was the disproportion in the cast. and knew the POC and Minorities wouldn't last long. and CBS has yet to address that problem. These cast are never really as diverse as they should be imo.
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Old 09-28-2019, 10:34 AM
  #284
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I don’t think anyone is saying to have sympathy for racists and bullies. The issue for me is that it’s very easy for people on the Internet to get out there and slap the label of “racist” on someone and to have a constant attack mentality of it. Instead, perhaps a productive conversation could be generated, like the difference between racism and implicit biases, because yes, there is a difference. Where does pure ignorance fit into the spectrum? I don’t think Jackson or any of these people will learn much from simply being labeled racist. They need to be involved in respectful discussions (on both sides) about how things were perceived and why they offended some people. They need to be part of a learning process, and learning doesn’t occur when someone says, “You’re racist, and that’s the end of it.”

I don’t think BB rigged anything for Jackson. Why would they? They knew how unpopular he was. If they had wanted to rig it for anyone, they would have tried to rig it for Nicole.
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Old 09-28-2019, 11:00 AM
  #285
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I don’t think anyone is saying to have sympathy for racists and bullies. The issue for me is that it’s very easy for people on the Internet to get out there and slap the label of “racist” on someone and to have a constant attack mentality of it. Instead, perhaps a productive conversation could be generated, like the difference between racism and implicit biases, because yes, there is a difference. Where does pure ignorance fit into the spectrum? I don’t think Jackson or any of these people will learn much from simply being labeled racist. They need to be involved in respectful discussions (on both sides) about how things were perceived and why they offended some people. They need to be part of a learning process, and learning doesn’t occur when someone says, “You’re racist, and that’s the end of it.”

I don’t think BB rigged anything for Jackson. Why would they? They knew how unpopular he was. If they had wanted to rig it for anyone, they would have tried to rig it for Nicole.
I get your point and it's very valid to have conversations about these things. I just look at it completely different, like it's 2019 and if they don't know what's acceptable an not ok. These are grown people so if they wanna choose to say the racist commits and bully people be ready to deal with the backlash from them. none of those commits or actions where said in the heat of the moment. that's truly how they felt.


I hope we can get a winners/fan favorite season
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