Buffy and Angel - Winifred Burkle & Charles Gunn [Forkers] 12: "When my girl's not happy—I'm not happy!" - Page 4

**starryeyesxx** · 06-17-2019, 03:56 PM

I can't remember for sure, but I think in You're Welcome, Cordy told Wesley she was sorry about what happened to Lilah... so it seemed like they did happen, but how... I have no idea. It doesn't really all add up

I always found this exchange between Wesley & Illyria interesting in Origin:
WESLEY: Reality's being changed.
ILLYRIA: Define change. The world is as it is.
WESLEY: Not necessarily.
ILLYRIA: You are a summation of recollections. Each change is simply a point of experience.
WESLEY: We are more than just memories.
ILLYRIA: And yet Fred changed the moment her memory did.
WESLEY: Fred's memories were changed?
ILLYRIA: In places.
WESLEY: Can you see what they were before?
ILLYRIA: No. They're gone. Does this change your view of Fred? Is she still the person you thought she was?
WESLEY: No. None of us are.

**eternalfate** · 06-17-2019, 05:45 PM

^ That was interesting because yes, everything changed when the memories changes and I feel the writers shoud've done a better job at explaining that...

**Crystal Clear** · 06-18-2019, 04:35 AM

^ I think Cordy and Wesley's dialogue can make sense, even out of context.

"That higher power took over my body" -- Cordelia remembers things that the others don't. She remembers Connor, like Angel does. So I think she explains it to Wesley knowing full well that he isn't actually aware of everything she is talking about.

In that version, Connor didn't exist -- so Cordy didn't have gross sex with Angel's son and Wesley never betrayed his friends in a kidnapping incident.

As far as Wesley knows, Cordelia simply went bad due to a possession and killed Lilah, I think.

Quote:

Originally Posted by starryeyesxx (View Post)

Yeah, it just didn't add up... especially with how disrespectful Wesley had been to their relationship. I know that Gunn was gonna react way better than Wesley ever did, but still...

Gunn's reaction to Wesley and Fred dating was way too casual.

I totally agree that it's in his nature to be kind about it knowing that Wesley had always liked her,

BUT we should have seen a moment afterwards where he's by himself and thinking about Fred and actually MISSING her.

**eternalfate** · 06-18-2019, 05:58 PM

^ It was so sad when he was in the hospital and crying.

**Crystal Clear** · 06-19-2019, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternalfate (View Post)

^ It was so sad when he was in the hospital and crying.

Yep, and to see him only visited by Harmony and Angel -- both of whom weren't really in the mood to see him because of the knowledge of what had happened to Fred.

**eternalfate** · 06-19-2019, 06:20 PM

^ I was upset with all of that to be quite honest because Gunn would never willingly allow Fred to die... and again... I blamed Angel more than anyone because he was the one who erased everyone's memories and had them take the deal with W&H... so pretty much everything was tied to none of them remembering anything that had happened.

However, Gunn shouldn't have been getting stabbed and treated poorly for that.
Of course there is always a consequence for one's action but I was one of the fans who was upset/surprised with how comfortable the gang was getting in W&H after everything bad W&G did to Team Angel. I was just missing the hotel. lol

But again this still goes back to Angel lie and memory wipe because when Wes did that, he didn't even know that 2 years prior he had betrayed the group and Angel almost killed him because of it. So even in "Shells" when Gunn is heartbroken about what he did, he still didn't have his full memories yet... so that's what upset me more than anything.

**Crystal Clear** · 06-20-2019, 07:40 AM

It was an absolute mess when the gang relocated to Wolfram & Hart

I've said this many times, but the show only made sense when it was in Angel's office in S1 and in the hotel beyond that.

Once they moved into lawyer territory, everything went to

(which I think was intentional.)

Fred and Gunn barely even spoke anymore. That was just bizarre to me. Plus, when they did speak, there was barely any reference to their long-term relationship.

It's not believable for two people who were in love and had such a painful break-up to suddenly be totally okay and avoid each other AND give their friend (Wesley) their blessing to go out with her instead. It was all handled ridiculously.

**starryeyesxx** · 06-21-2019, 07:54 AM

I agree, I hated how they treated Gunn when they found out his part in Fred's death... he signed a piece of paper. He knew there would probably be consequences... but they'd all gone along with this W&H knowing full well that there would be consequences to that too, so none of them could really judge. He would never ever knowingly put Fred in harms way. He would die for her, he'd protect her over anyone else

All the reunions pics where they're standing next to each other make me so happy

**eternalfate** · 06-22-2019, 08:16 AM

I agree, we all know he'd rather die than to sign over Fred's life.

So that was painful to watch.

**starryeyesxx** · 06-22-2019, 01:55 PM

Of course I had to make something with all the reunion goodness!

https://starryeyesxx.tumblr.com/post/185757324638

**eternalfate** · 06-23-2019, 11:58 AM

Oh wow amazing!

straws · 06-23-2019, 12:30 PM

Great gifs. Thanks for sharing.

**eternalfate** · 06-24-2019, 06:19 PM

^ Sophie did a great job.

**starryeyesxx** · 06-26-2019, 08:48 AM

Thanks

I was so happy they were so together, I feel like we're always ignored in these kind of things, so I wasn't expecting that

straws · 06-26-2019, 01:07 PM

I loved the seating arrangement. All the ATS 'couples' were next to each other.

Great to see 2019 Fred & Gunn.

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Fan Forum > TV Shows - Past > Buffy and Angel > Winifred Burkle & Charles Gunn [Forkers] 12: "When my girl's not happy—I'm not happy!"