Fan Forum
Remember Me?

  Request a Forum   |     View New Forums

Reply   Post New Thread
Forum Affiliates Tags Thread Tools
Old 06-08-2009, 12:18 AM
Elite Fan

fresley4ever's Avatar
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 38,498
Whiskey: My entire existence was constructed by a sociopath in a sweater vest what do you suggest I do?
fresley4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2009, 12:58 PM
Part-Time Fan
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 338

The Good;
Angel versus the demon and all the Wes and Lilah stuff
The Bad;
Surely the Prof can think of a less public way to get rid of Fred? All told this is a pretty damn stupid ep
Best line:
Angel (to demon who keep's fighting despite having been decapitated) "Come on, I'm holding your head"
Jeez, how did they get away with that?
Apocalypses: 5
Angel Cliches
Inverting the Hollywood cliche;
In disguise; 8
DB get's his shirt off; 12
Cheap Angel; 5
Fang Gang in bondage:
Cordy: 5
Angel: 12
Wes: 6
Gunn; 4
Lorne; 4
Fred; 2

Fang gang knocked out:
Cordy: 12
Angel: 15
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 4
Groo; 1
Kills: 1 vamp for CC, 1 demon for Angel and one human for Gunn
Cordy: 6 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 41 vamps, 58 and 1/2 demons, 8 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 12 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 11 vamps+ 12 demons+ one human.
Groo; 1 demon
Fred; 3 vamp+ 1 demon
Connor; 8 vamps and 2 demon
Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2
Gunn; 1
Wes; 1

Alternate Fang Gang:
Cordy: 3
Angel: 9
Fred; 1

Characters killed:
Recurring characters killed;
Total number of Angel Investigations:
Angel, Gunn, Fred, Lorne

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1
Packing heat;
Wes; 6
Doyle; 1
Angel; 3
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 4 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis+Groo
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 3; Virginia, the bleached blonde and Lilah
Gunn; 1 Fred
Fred; 1 Gunn
Groo; 1Cordy

Kinky dinky:
Connor remarks that CC steals the bedcovers much to Angel's distress. Gunn mentions that Fred kept him up all night and was unstoppable.
Captain Subtext;
Lorne calls Angel 'sweetie' when he brings him breakfast in bed. Whilst Connor refuses to bring Cordy any pics of Angel he's fine with everyone else, even Lorne.
Know the face, different character; 4
Parking garages; yep, if I were Lilah I'd just take a taxi every night
Guantanamo Bay;
Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony
Questions and observations;
Really not good, silly plot and although there's some powerful emotional stuff really far below par. First time we ever see CC's parents. Now when we see Angel recreate the conference room scene at the Hyperion is that just a photographic memory or a spell he casts? Love the satire on the Angel fans, Angel referring to the 'chatty rooms'. Love Fred's Ripley moment, "I'm the bitch!".
Marks out of 10; 6/10 and maybe that's generous
saturn5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2009, 09:15 PM
Elite Fan

lunas_borednow's Avatar
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 49,250

Between the Darkness and the Light
lunas_borednow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2021, 08:34 AM
Fan Forum Hero

Crystal Clear's Avatar

Moderator of ...
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 72,339
Notable things in this very good episode:

# They establish Connor's crush on Cordelia. He even tries to make Angel jealous about Cordy living with him. Now this somewhat makes sense of what happens between him and Cordelia in 'Apocalypse, Nowish' from HIS side of things, but not hers.

# To extend my first point: amnesiac Cordelia has more sense than post-'Spin The Bottle' Cordy. The fact that she has amnesia but she immediately gets up and walks away from Connor - to Angel - after kissing Connor, well it tells you everything you need to know. THIS is the real Cordelia. She may not remember herself, but she sees the photos of her history and she senses right from wrong. She knows in her heart that she and Angel had something real together, and this right here is why 'Apocalypse, Nowish' will never make sense from her side. Plus, I know we get a deeper explanation as to why Cordelia is attached to Connor in this season, but what I'm saying is that everyone thinks they're looking at the real Cordy as she sleeps with Connor... Thus there's no way that the real her would have done it. She wouldn't have betrayed Angel that way.

# GUNN. WAS. RIGHT. when he pleaded to Fred not to kill the Professor because "I'm gonna lose you." We all know Fred; she wouldn't have been able to live with herself afterwards. As her boyfriend, Gunn knows this about her better than anyone, and that's why he takes the decision away from her and does it himself. The fact that this is the beginning of the end for them is SO unjust. How can anybody, Fred included, not realize what a huge favor he did for her? Plus he did it because he knows how much she suffered in Pylea. He saved his girl from having to commit murder -- how exactly is that a bad thing? This should NOT lead to their break-up.

# Lilah is already showing signs of being deeply jealous of Wesley's lingering feelings for Fred. This relationship really humanized her, and it's sad to watch her struggle with the knowledge that she's not number one in his heart.

# Sadly, Wesley will use this incident to taunt Gunn part way through this season - and it's not right. That said, I thought it was sweet how he attends the Physics conference just to see and hear her. Always the supportive one, and the one who longs for her from afar.

This is a great episode. And it's the one time I can understand Cordelia kissing Connor, as it's totally off-guard and she has enough sense to analyze it as the TRUE Cordy would have done.

4.5/5 rating.
"Ele, I waited for you for a year.
Trust me, I'd never ruin something so beautiful."
Edoardo Eleonora
Skam Italia icon
Crystal Clear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2024, 06:45 AM
Fan Forum Hero

livstevi21's Avatar

Moderator of ...
Tom Welling
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 97,144
Fred and Gunn were so cute at the beginning. I had a feeling Fred's professor was suspicious. Poor Fred, she was so excited to give her speech and it gets ruined by her being attacked by a monster. And then when she discovered that her professor was the one who sent her to Pylea, something dark changed inside her and all she wanted was the ultimate revenge. Can absolutely understand why she felt that way, the hell she must have gone through in those 5 years and we only got to see part of how awful it was for her. But Gunn and Angel were right, if she went through with her vengeance it will taunt her forever. So it's interesting how she went to Wesley for help on her vengeance, especially when he so half heartedly told her how Angel and Gunn were right and how from his experience actions such as have major consequences. I guess he gave her a chance to back out, but again, it was so half hearted. He obviously cares for her still and he seems to watch out for her more than anything, but the way he seemed to not fully care if she went dark like he has felt so off. I did like how Lilah could see Wesley still has feelings for Fred and was jealous.

When Gunn takes the Professor into his own hands and kills him before sending him through the portal Fred opened, that was kinda shocking. I understand why he did it, he did it to save Fred from herself. I hope they will be okay after this.

Cordy and Connor...that kiss was icky even if it was off guard but I'm glad that even without all her memories back, she realised that was wrong and her instinct is pulling her back to Angel.
Within Temptation | Met Tom Welling - celebrating 10 years as Mod at LFCC in 2018: He called me "so sweet" | Met Tom again with other Smallville cast at WCC in 2019
livstevi21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2024, 08:49 AM
Fan Forum Star

sum1's Avatar
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 126,870
I loved Wesley in this and I loved that this broke up Fred and Gunn, who should never have been together. Wes/Fred all the way.
Icon: BlackWhiteRose
sum1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Fan Forum  |  Contact Us  |  Fan Forum on Twitter  |  Fan Forum on Facebook  |  Archive  |  Top

Powered by vBulletin, Copyright © 2000-2024.

Copyright © 1998-2024, Fan Forum.