24 - The Passionates (T♥M) #25: I can't handle this, I grieve for you, missing what's gone, they say life carries on. - Page 3

Almeida's Army · 02-22-2014, 07:25 PM

See what you call ruining Tonys character, I call it developing the flawed side of him. I thought he, and S7 in general.was great. And Season 6 was only lacking due to the brilliance of S5 and if you'd kept Palmer/Tony/Michelle in, it would have changed, and you wouldn't have got the S5 we got.

**eternalfate** · 02-23-2014, 11:42 AM

Have Michelle in a coma or something. lol Also I think David Palmer death was the main death that really brought Jack Bauer back, the season could've still be great without Michelle dying, or Tony "dying" I believe.

If you ave nothing to do with the character, no need to have them in that season... make them just have great surprising returns. Like Charles Logan wasn't in Season 7, but they found a role for him in Season 8. Some could make a case that Logan wasn't really needed in Season 6.

especially now since the writers want to erase everything from that season.

It's just upsetting to me as a 24 fan that I can't really invest on any pairing or character on the show, cause they either [mostly] will get killed off, be a mole or something else tragic. I love 24 though, my top 5 favorite series ever, but killing every character off isn't necessary.

Especially the characters that the fans grew to love. Jack is really the only character I can really like, cause you know he'd live the whole day and never turn into a mole. Kim is the second safest character on the show I believe. Chloe probably next...

Almeida's Army · 02-23-2014, 10:10 PM

Yes but don't forget: Palmer was the primary target, but they targeted Michelle, Tony and Chloe to get Jack to take the fall. And Tony was in a coma, so its not likely they would have two in a coma. At the time, and of course this has now since changed, but at the time if I'd chosen two to die instantly in that episode, it would have been Michelle and Chloe. Obviously, Chloe became a show legend after that, but I wouldn't have missed her massively at that stage- couldn't warm to her in S3 (though I can now... kinda) and she had improved a lot in S4 with the additions of Edgar and Bill etc, but Palmer and Tony were too good but looking back, I can see why Palmer had to die in order for Season 5 to be great, and while we disagree on this, I think Michelle had to die for Season 7 to be great as it allowed Tony's character to develop.

So I agreed with the decision to write Palmer and Michelle out in that way, but I do agree with your principle. For instance both Curtis and Bill, would just be awesome in S9. I also agree with both parts of your Logan point. IMO he saved S8. But didn't add a great deal to S6.

And on your last point, I'm kinda torn. I don't ship characters, as you know, but I agree with your point that investing in a character is key, but in fairness to the show, they set their template by the halfway mark of Episode 1- a favourite of mine, Richard Walsh: Don't trust anyone. We kinda knew what we were getting into, then by the end of Season 1 that point was drilled home in a massive way with the greatest 15 seconds of TV I've ever seen at the end of Episode 23 and then the emotional end to Episode 24. So from then on out, I rarely got stunned at a mole (Logan being the exception) nor really by deaths (Though Episode 1 of S5, all bets were off! And I was kinda surprised he didn't aim to wound Curtis in S6. But otherwise, I wasn't massively stunned, because they'd set the blueprint out from the off, so I knew that by the nature of the show, it isn't often a longterm gig)

Oh and I think Chloe is safer than Kim- this is Kim we're talking about! The same Kim that gets kidnapped every 5 seconds!

Chloe is more savvy.

**eternalfate** · 02-24-2014, 10:57 AM

If Tony character will forever be ruined because of Season 7, I'd rather he just died off in Season 5 though. I don't have no hope for Tony even returning.

... but we'll see.

I agree with your whole post... cool we can have a friendly discussion.

I just think Season 5 killed off too many characters that I cared about, Michelle, Palmer, Tony [temporarily] Edgar... it was just a killing spree that season. Although with Edgar, his death was so sad but it didn't touch me that much although his death was the saddest to watch.

Curtis dying was the most pointless death... not going to even discuss that or I'll get upset again.

Bill... although he really wasn't one of my favorites, I was upset with the way he died.

Also I know you are not a shipping person... when it comes to 24 I'm really not either, the only pairing I really loved was Tony/Michelle.. with Jack though, it's tough liking him with anybody cause it most likely will end very tragically. Even when I was close to finally going on the Jack/Renee ship bandwagon... we know what happened.

Last thing to add, Kim is more safer than Chloe. Even through all the kidnapping, she still survive... and as long as she away from Jack she's pretty safe as well.

I think the writers can't kill Kim, if they do that.. I think that'd be the thing that finally pushed Jack over the edge. Kim death is one he can't deal with.

fall like stars · 02-24-2014, 12:10 PM

There was so much more they could have done with Tony/Michelle in my opinion but they just took the easy way out with them.

Maybe it's the shipper in me talking, but tbh, I feel it's more than that. I love the entire show after all, every aspect about it from the start, and so it wasn't like I only cared about the romance. But what happened to T/M has never felt right to me, not just from a shipper perspective but from a writing/overall show perspective. Tony and Michelle's relationship wasn't just an important part of the show, but they were true allies to Jack, and Tony had so much history with Jack from day one. I felt they were pretty vital to the show. Not to say I expected both of them to live happily ever after. I mean, this is 24, but I held onto the hope that the writers would resist getting too trigger happy. I mean, not every character has to die, or what's there to invest in? And if they did die, I thought it would at least have been justified. IMO, Palmer's death was more than reasonable and I think it would have been more than enough to bring Jack out of hiding. Michelle on top of that, and especially the poor way it was executed, was unnecessary, imo. They could have faked Michelle's death, and Tony and her could have gone on the run, (and along the way she could have found out she was pregnant so it would be even more dangerous) and then later teamed up with Jack. Maybe then I could see Tony or Michelle, or both of them dying tragically, if it had been properly built up to it, and felt earned and necessary and didn't come across as killing a character just for the sake of killing, which is exactly what Michelle's death felt like to me.

And bringing Tony back in season 7, I'm of two minds on that matter. On one hand, It felt really contrived to me. I made peace with his death. I mean, he lost everything, I really couldn't see much of a future for his character on the show after what happened. And then his actions during the season, at first, I felt like the show had only brought him back to tarnish him, and I was pissed. But then I thought about it more, and realized there was an aspect to the storyline that was compelling, that was realistic. That losing Michelle and their son would have pushed him so far, he was able to justify doing the things he did. And after all, everyone is not Jack. Some people go so far over the line, and they could never come back from it. It was hard to watch though..... but strangely enough, it kind of unexpectedly brought me the closure I needed with what happened to him and Michelle.

All I want and wish for now is for Tony to come back and for his character to come to terms with what he's done and to finally find some peace. Idk if it's possible we'll ever see him again though, but I will never ever stop hoping.

I'm beyond excited for the return of the show though! I will always root for Jack.

**eternalfate** · 02-24-2014, 09:19 PM

^

I love your entire post.... even to those who didn't ship Tony & Michelle, during that time Tony & Michelle were the biggest most popular pairing on 24, and Michelle was by far the most popular female character on 24. Even above Chloe during that time. For the writers to just have her have that one scene and just kill her off like that.

I was just beyond upset.

As a shipper perceptive and a shipper perceptive, the writing for it wasn't that right for me AND I believe David Palmer's death is the main death that made him come out of hiding, and of course Chloe calling him. Either way, I believe he would've came back to solve David Palmer's death, there was no need to kill off Tony or Michelle. Tony & Michelle were two of Jack closest allies at that time.. and probably that was the problem. The writers truly want Jack to lose everybody close to him and not really have a true ally. ... or more than one anyway.

Tony in Season 7 upset me cause it did feel like they did everything to try to ruin Tony character.

and then of course we don't see him again. I definitely understood Tony's pain in Season 7 though, and thought it was very realistic. Michelle was all he had and she was pregnant with his son, so yeah that's a painful death to swallow for Tony. He felt like everything he worked for betrayed him in the end. There is no way everybody will sit back and act as casual as Jack act.

Also same with me, I'll continuing rooting for Jack... that's the only thing I can really do, since all my other favorites died off.

Oh and one more thing to add:

Quote:

I mean, not every character has to die, or what's there to invest in?

Agreed.

Almeida's Army · 02-26-2014, 06:33 PM

See this is why I love this board. You both raise excellent points and for the most part I agree. I will however add two things. Firstly, I don't think Palmer's death was enough- because the whole point of it was the terrorists take out Palmer and bring Jack out of hiding to take the fall. But why would he kill Palmer? However if you go for the other people who knew he was alive, you could create a narrative, which is indeed what happened. So Michelle, Tony and Chloe needed to be targeted and it would be unrealistic if all 3 got away IMO, so someone else needed to fall by the wayside.

My second point is simply this: we will see Tony Almeida again. Maybe not this season, but we will see him again.

**JDM's❤︎Sweetheart** · 05-01-2014, 10:06 PM

Can I be added?

**eternalfate** · 05-02-2014, 12:19 PM

^ Surely sure, I'll add you!

**JDM's❤︎Sweetheart** · 05-02-2014, 04:43 PM

Thank you!

**eternalfate** · 05-02-2014, 08:36 PM

^ No Problemo, did you like Tony & Michelle right from the get go?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Almeida's Army (View Post)

See this is why I love this board. You both raise excellent points and for the most part I agree. I will however add two things. Firstly, I don't think Palmer's death was enough- because the whole point of it was the terrorists take out Palmer and bring Jack out of hiding to take the fall. But why would he kill Palmer? However if you go for the other people who knew he was alive, you could create a narrative, which is indeed what happened. So Michelle, Tony and Chloe needed to be targeted and it would be unrealistic if all 3 got away IMO, so someone else needed to fall by the wayside.

My second point is simply this: we will see Tony Almeida again. Maybe not this season, but we will see him again.

I'll put this under spoiler tags cause I don't know how far is Nikole in the show.... Season 5 I know but yeah...

Spoiler:

**JDM's❤︎Sweetheart** · 05-02-2014, 10:27 PM

Pretty much. They just grew on me more and more as the series went along.

**eternalfate** · 05-03-2014, 12:56 PM

Same for me... I didn't care for Tony/Nina in Season 1, when Season 2 came around Tony had this instant chemistry with Michelle.... but I can see why or if Tony would be reluctant to date Michelle, after what happened with Nina, but as the day went on, I couldn't help but to love them.
Season 3 just pushed their love to another level, and it was a lot of angst but you felt the love for them, and just how much they did love each other. Those three years of being together were the best of Michelle's life.

And it was just beautiful.

Season 4 was so tough to watch, but in the end... they were where they were suppose to be. Together.

**JDM's❤︎Sweetheart** · 05-03-2014, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eternal◘fate (View Post)

Same for me... I didn't care for Tony/Nina in Season 1, when Season 2 came around Tony had this instant chemistry with Michelle.... but I can see why or if Tony would be reluctant to date Michelle, after what happened with Nina, but as the day went on, I couldn't help but to love them.
Season 3 just pushed their love to another level, and it was a lot of angst but you felt the love for them, and just how much they did love each other. Those three years of being together were the best of Michelle's life.

And it was just beautiful.

Season 4 was so tough to watch, but in the end... they were where they were suppose to be. Together.

I totally agree with everything you said!

collide into you · 05-05-2014, 12:51 PM

Gosh, I haven't been in this thread for so long! Could you change my name in the OP, please. I'm #120.

I just wanted to say that I'm excited for the new season, I'll be watching and rooting for Jack to kick some major ass.

But my TM shipper heart will be in pain. I wish they were still on the show, I miss them


Fan Forum > Archived Television Shows > 24 > The Passionates (T♥M) #25: I can't handle this, I grieve for you, missing what's gone, they say life carries on.