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Old 10-27-2021, 08:03 PM
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Madison Kellner – The Worst Character Ever on Everwood

Hi everyone. Doing this rewatch has allowed me to view Everwood with a different perspective. For example, this time around, I’m much more empathetic toward Amy. When I first saw the show, I really thought that Amy was using Ephram, and that her friendship with him had ulterior motives, and that she basically abandoned her friendship with Ephram when Colin “woke up” and again after Colin died. This time around, I can see that Amy was basically torn between her feelings for Colin and her feelings for Ephram, and in early Season Two, she was so crippled by her situational depression that she could barely function, let alone have time to be in a serious relationship with Ephram. Still though, she might have gotten together with Ephram sooner in Season Two, and he could have helped her cope with her depression, except for one thing that not only affected her, but which set the tone for most of Season Two, she saw Ephram kiss his sister’s babysitter, Madison Kellner. Amy seeing Ephram kissing Madison temporarily derailed her and Ephram uniting romantically, and it set her on a self-destructive course where she dated a drug addict named Tommy and she left her home to live with Edna and Irv.

As bad as that all was, Amy eventually came to her senses and broke up with Tommy and she never saw him again, and she worked through the depression that she suffered after Colin’s death, and her and Ephram got together as a romantic couple at the end of Season Two, to the joy of all of us who loved them and rooted for them as a couple.

One thing that hasn’t changed during my rewatch of the show is my hatred for Madison Kellner and every single scene that she was in, and I really got to see how she negatively affected Ephram, who became, in his words, psychotically obsessed with her, and she did real damage to Ephram’s relationships with everyone around him, especially his father and sister, as his obsession with her became all-encompassing and he neglected his relationships with everyone who loved him and cared for him and he behaved in ways that represented continuing new lows for his character.

Unlike Amy and Tommy’s story and Andy and Linda’s story (which wasn’t a bad story at all, but it was a story that purposely was meant to be of a short duration) and later Andy and Amanda’s story, which had an ending, Ephram and Madison’s “romantic relationship” haunted the series for the rest of its run and we would have been forced to deal with seeing her again at the end of Season Four if Everwood didn’t get cancelled. Madison was, in my opinion, the worst character and idea for a character that we ever saw on Everwood. She was introduced as Delia’s babysitter, but she quickly became romantically involved with Ephram, and their paring was wrong on every level. Madison alternated between looking down on Ephram and acting like she was ashamed to be with him to being in love with him and telling him that her stomach gets all fluttery when he walked into the room, and when he kissed her she just came undone, which really turned my stomach because he was only a kid. Madison knew that being with Ephram was wrong, but she continued to be involved with him, even to the point of having sex with him when she saw how unstable he had become due to his obsession with her. Ephram was so insecure about his relationship with Madison that he acted in ways that were out of character for him and he was quite unlikable when he was with Madison, and I was so glad when they broke up. When I’ve rewatched Season Two this year, I really got to see how dangerously obsessed Ephram was with Madison, and how his character regressed when he was involved with her, and how badly he treated his father, his sister, his friend Bright, and even Amy. Everything about their relationship was illicit and oh so wrong, and I never viewed them as a normal couple, and I don’t understand why the writers took things so far with a teenage boy who wasn’t emotionally equipped to handle such a serious and sexual relationship with an adult woman who was hired to be his sister’s babysitter. Madison also hurt Delia who had to witness all the drama between her babysitter and her brother, until the point when she wisely “fired” Madison because she made Ephram so unhappy.

Unfortunately for Ephram, Madison, and everyone else involved in their story, and most unfortunately for us fans, Madison’s saga didn’t end when her and Ephram broke up, because she revealed to Andy at the end of Season Two that she was pregnant with Ephram’s child, and Andy told her not to tell Ephram and that he’d pay her to basically go away and stay out of Ephram’s life, and so “Madisongate,” as we called it, hung over Season Three like a pall and it tainted the happiness we would have otherwise felt watching Ephram and Amy become a couple and watching Ephram and Andy become closer.

We then saw that Madison revealed to Ephram that she had his baby and gave it up for adoption, signing the papers “Father Unknown” at the worst possible time, right on the eve of his audition for Julliard, which sent him into an emotional tailspin and it ruined his relationship with not only his father, but with poor Amy as well, as he lashed out at her because she knew about Madison’s pregnancy before he did, and we had to endure seeing Ephram break up with Amy and break her heart in a really cruel and unnecessary way and go off to Europe, and even when he returned, him and Amy didn’t get back together because he had hurt her so much, and we only got to see them get back together because Everwood was canceled.

As we saw in the alternate ending to Everwood, we wouldn’t have been done with Madison yet, and instead of being able to see Ephram and Amy reunite in that beautiful Ferris Wheel scene, we would have gotten to see poor Amy standing out by that Ferris Wheel by herself, while Ephram went back into his apartment to call Madison, which would have infuriated everyone, and it would have delayed, or possibly ended, Ephram and Amy’s reunion, and for what? Why bring back a character that everyone hated and rehash the baby storyline that had gotten closure in Season Three?

What aggravates me the most about Madison is how we were never allowed to be done with her and her story because of her pregnancy. A lot of people didn’t like Amy and Tommy or Andy and Linda, and they especially didn’t like Andy and Amanda, but at least those storylines were allowed to end and they were never to be mentioned again, but Madison kept on turning up like a bad penny and she loomed over the happiness of all the major characters like a black cloud, and she did damage to the show itself by making her storyline a soap opera.

Therefore, I have to conclude that Madison did more damage to the main characters on Everwood and the show itself than any other character or storyline.
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Old 10-28-2021, 04:09 AM
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Excellent analysis, Jerry!

After my early meeting this morning I’m going to respond. Looking forward to it!
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Old 10-28-2021, 04:24 PM
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I got so busy today! I’m finally finished with work. Need to grab some dinner and then watching something with Angela.

I will respond later tonight/early in the morning so I have time to think.
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Old 10-28-2021, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry D (View Post)
Hi everyone. Doing this rewatch has allowed me to view Everwood with a different perspective. For example, this time around, I’m much more empathetic toward Amy. When I first saw the show, I really thought that Amy was using Ephram, and that her friendship with him had ulterior motives, and that she basically abandoned her friendship with Ephram when Colin “woke up” and again after Colin died. This time around, I can see that Amy was basically torn between her feelings for Colin and her feelings for Ephram, and in early Season Two, she was so crippled by her situational depression that she could barely function, let alone have time to be in a serious relationship with Ephram. Still though, she might have gotten together with Ephram sooner in Season Two, and he could have helped her cope with her depression, except for one thing that not only affected her, but which set the tone for most of Season Two, she saw Ephram kiss his sister’s babysitter, Madison Kellner. Amy seeing Ephram kissing Madison temporarily derailed her and Ephram uniting romantically, and it set her on a self-destructive course where she dated a drug addict named Tommy and she left her home to live with Edna and Irv.
That is great you have changed your mind on Amy.

You weren't the only one who had mixed feelings on Amy. Although you had logical reasoning. Some were even unforgiving that she had Clinical Depression and thought she could control it and snap out of it at any time.

Quote:
As bad as that all was, Amy eventually came to her senses and broke up with Tommy and she never saw him again, and she worked through the depression that she suffered after Colin’s death, and her and Ephram got together as a romantic couple at the end of Season Two, to the joy of all of us who loved them and rooted for them as a couple.
Yes, amazingly Amy's relationship with Tommy was relatively painless when you think about how much worse it could have been. They did not have sex and when he left, he left. Done. No lingering, we didn't need to see his mug again. Then Ephram and Amy finally got their chance to be together.

Quote:
One thing that hasn’t changed during my rewatch of the show is my hatred for Madison Kellner and every single scene that she was in, and I really got to see how she negatively affected Ephram, who became, in his words, psychotically obsessed with her, and she did real damage to Ephram’s relationships with everyone around him, especially his father and sister, as his obsession with her became all-encompassing and he neglected his relationships with everyone who loved him and cared for him and he behaved in ways that represented continuing new lows for his character.
Completely agree. She did so much damage to Ephram personally and all those close to him. What I have seen in a different light during this rewatch is just how obsessed Ephram is with Madison. In all the other rewatches, maybe it is because I hardly focused on scenes when Madison was in them, so I didn't watch closely enough... but I never truly viewed and understood just how obsessed to a toxic level Ephram was with Madison. It was so toxic and painful. I cannot believe people actually questioned if they were in love. Seriously? It wasn't just about the illegal aspect. Madison NEVER loved Ephram, she treated him like a child, was embarrassed to be seen with him. She barely even respected him, let alone loved him. Ephram was never in love with her either, he was obsessed, nothing more. He needed help. He was a terrible friend to Bright, couldn't have cared less what his father was up to, and flat out ignored his little impressionable sister, often using her as a way to get closer to Madison in really cruel ways. This relationship never should have transpired and ended way before it did without lasting consequences. Instead, we see Ephram abandon piano not once but twice, and all the hell in general that happens as a result of Madison's pregnancy. It's a true nightmare.

Quote:
Unlike Amy and Tommy’s story and Andy and Linda’s story (which wasn’t a bad story at all, but it was a story that purposely was meant to be of a short duration) and later Andy and Amanda’s story, which had an ending, Ephram and Madison’s “romantic relationship” haunted the series for the rest of its run and we would have been forced to deal with seeing her again at the end of Season Four if Everwood didn’t get cancelled.
That is the biggest key and nice word description: Haunted. That is precisely what Ephram and Madison's relationship did... haunted the series for the rest of its run. Yes, she was returning and the Ferris Wheel scene never would have transpired because the witch was returning to try and get the baby back who was legally adopted.

Quote:
Madison was, in my opinion, the worst character and idea for a character that we ever saw on Everwood. She was introduced as Delia’s babysitter, but she quickly became romantically involved with Ephram, and their paring was wrong on every level. Madison alternated between looking down on Ephram and acting like she was ashamed to be with him to being in love with him and telling him that her stomach gets all fluttery when he walked into the room, and when he kissed her she just came undone, which really turned my stomach because he was only a kid. Madison knew that being with Ephram was wrong, but she continued to be involved with him, even to the point of having sex with him when she saw how unstable he had become due to his obsession with her. Ephram was so insecure about his relationship with Madison that he acted in ways that were out of character for him and he was quite unlikable when he was with Madison, and I was so glad when they broke up. When I’ve rewatched Season Two this year, I really got to see how dangerously obsessed Ephram was with Madison, and how his character regressed when he was involved with her, and how badly he treated his father, his sister, his friend Bright, and even Amy. Everything about their relationship was illicit and oh so wrong, and I never viewed them as a normal couple, and I don’t understand why the writers took things so far with a teenage boy who wasn’t emotionally equipped to handle such a serious and sexual relationship with an adult woman who was hired to be his sister’s babysitter. Madison also hurt Delia who had to witness all the drama between her babysitter and her brother, until the point when she wisely “fired” Madison because she made Ephram so unhappy.


Quote:
Unfortunately for Ephram, Madison, and everyone else involved in their story, and most unfortunately for us fans, Madison’s saga didn’t end when her and Ephram broke up, because she revealed to Andy at the end of Season Two that she was pregnant with Ephram’s child, and Andy told her not to tell Ephram and that he’d pay her to basically go away and stay out of Ephram’s life, and so “Madisongate,” as we called it, hung over Season Three like a pall and it tainted the happiness we would have otherwise felt watching Ephram and Amy become a couple and watching Ephram and Andy become closer.
I remember watching Andy sending her away, basically telling her not to tell Ephram, and thinking it would be a disastrous move in the end. I remember thinking Ephram finding out would interfere with Ephram and Amy initially from finally getting together and while it wouldn't be fun to see, at least babygate would have been dealt with head on right away and Andy wouldn't have to take the fall for Madison and Ephram being ridiculous and getting pregnant due to a relationship that never should have gotten started in the first place.

Quote:
We then saw that Madison revealed to Ephram that she had his baby and gave it up for adoption, signing the papers “Father Unknown” at the worst possible time, right on the eve of his audition for Julliard, which sent him into an emotional tailspin and it ruined his relationship with not only his father, but with poor Amy as well, as he lashed out at her because she knew about Madison’s pregnancy before he did, and we had to endure seeing Ephram break up with Amy and break her heart in a really cruel and unnecessary way and go off to Europe, and even when he returned, him and Amy didn’t get back together because he had hurt her so much, and we only got to see them get back together because Everwood was canceled.
I will forever be bitter over this reality. I cannot stand how Ephram treated Amy throughout all of the baby reveal, dumping her while she was dealing with her mother recently diagnosed with cancer, bailing, laughing in her face at the thought of her seeing a forever for them. He was so horrible to her. We also know he lied to her in S3 to try and see Madison and her band which was a form of cheating if you ask me. Not physical cheating or even emotional cheating... OK maybe not cheating but deception. Pure deception. He's lucky Amy didn't break up with him after that stunt. But he repays her back not too far into the future by breaking up with her because he couldn't handle the pregnancy reveal and blamed her for knowing for about two seconds before he did. Just awful. I loathe how all of this went down.

Quote:
As we saw in the alternate ending to Everwood, we wouldn’t have been done with Madison yet, and instead of being able to see Ephram and Amy reunite in that beautiful Ferris Wheel scene, we would have gotten to see poor Amy standing out by that Ferris Wheel by herself, while Ephram went back into his apartment to call Madison, which would have infuriated everyone, and it would have delayed, or possibly ended, Ephram and Amy’s reunion, and for what? Why bring back a character that everyone hated and rehash the baby storyline that had gotten closure in Season Three?
Frustration is a word that cannot even justify how so many of us would have felt had all of this transpired.

Quote:
What aggravates me the most about Madison is how we were never allowed to be done with her and her story because of her pregnancy. A lot of people didn’t like Amy and Tommy or Andy and Linda, and they especially didn’t like Andy and Amanda, but at least those storylines were allowed to end and they were never to be mentioned again, but Madison kept on turning up like a bad penny and she loomed over the happiness of all the major characters like a black cloud, and she did damage to the show itself by making her storyline a soap opera.
If they would have broken up after Ephram's ridiculous behavior at the bar (should have broken up way before this time, and never gotten together in the first place) it wouldn't have been so bad. But no, they had to linger, torturing Delia even more, and like we discussed, all the other damage that takes place.

Quote:
Therefore, I have to conclude that Madison did more damage to the main characters on Everwood and the show itself than any other character or storyline.
100%. I completely agree. I cannot think of any other character that did more damage to the main characters of Everwood. You can say Colin caused chaos but the guy entering a coma and temporarily surviving only to die a short time later affected not only both families but the entire town; however, Colin had some not so great traits but this scenario cannot be blamed on him.

No, Madison deserved this award. She was the dark cloud in this otherwise beautiful series.

Last edited by jediwands; 10-28-2021 at 09:00 PM
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Old 10-29-2021, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jediseermic (View Post)
That is great you have changed your mind on Amy.

You weren't the only one who had mixed feelings on Amy. Although you had logical reasoning. Some were even unforgiving that she had Clinical Depression and thought she could control it and snap out of it at any time.
Yes, I had a much harsher view of Amy the first time around, but I'm much more sympathetic to her character now.

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Originally Posted by jediseermic (View Post)
Yes, amazingly Amy's relationship with Tommy was relatively painless when you think about how much worse it could have been. They did not have sex and when he left, he left. Done. No lingering, we didn't need to see his mug again. Then Ephram and Amy finally got their chance to be together.
Yes, Tommy just represented Amy acting out in the aftermath of Colin's death and when she was in the depths of her situational depression, but at least she broke up with him and we never had to see him again after she broke up with him.

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Originally Posted by jediseermic (View Post)
Completely agree. She did so much damage to Ephram personally and all those close to him. What I have seen in a different light during this rewatch is just how obsessed Ephram is with Madison. In all the other rewatches, maybe it is because I hardly focused on scenes when Madison was in them, so I didn't watch closely enough... but I never truly viewed and understood just how obsessed to a toxic level Ephram was with Madison. It was so toxic and painful. I cannot believe people actually questioned if they were in love. Seriously? It wasn't just about the illegal aspect. Madison NEVER loved Ephram, she treated him like a child, was embarrassed to be seen with him. She barely even respected him, let alone loved him. Ephram was never in love with her either, he was obsessed, nothing more. He needed help. He was a terrible friend to Bright, couldn't have cared less what his father was up to, and flat out ignored his little impressionable sister, often using her as a way to get closer to Madison in really cruel ways. This relationship never should have transpired and ended way before it did without lasting consequences. Instead, we see Ephram abandon piano not once but twice, and all the hell in general that happens as a result of Madison's pregnancy. It's a true nightmare.
You used the perfect word to describe Ephram and Madison's relationship: Toxic. Everything about their relationship was toxic and it got more toxic with every new episode. Ephram really went into a tailspin due to his relationship with Madison, and this rewatch really opened my eyes to how far off the deep end he went with her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediseermic (View Post)
That is the biggest key and nice word description: Haunted. That is precisely what Ephram and Madison's relationship did... haunted the series for the rest of its run. Yes, she was returning and the Ferris Wheel scene never would have transpired because the witch was returning to try and get the baby back who was legally adopted.
I hate that we were never allowed to be completely rid of this horrible character and she did so much damage on the show, both in this season and in Season Three, with lingering effects in Season Four, and we would have seen her yet again at the end of Season Four and the beginning of Season Five if the show wasn't cancelled. What was Berlanti thinking of with her?

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Originally Posted by jediseermic (View Post)
I remember watching Andy sending her away, basically telling her not to tell Ephram, and thinking it would be a disastrous move in the end. I remember thinking Ephram finding out would interfere with Ephram and Amy initially from finally getting together and while it wouldn't be fun to see, at least babygate would have been dealt with head on right away and Andy wouldn't have to take the fall for Madison and Ephram being ridiculous and getting pregnant due to a relationship that never should have gotten started in the first place.
I knew that Andy telling Madison to not tell Ephram that she was pregnant was setting a course for disaster, and it all blew up in New York.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediseermic (View Post)
I will forever be bitter over this reality. I cannot stand how Ephram treated Amy throughout all of the baby reveal, dumping her while she was dealing with her mother recently diagnosed with cancer, bailing, laughing in her face at the thought of her seeing a forever for them. He was so horrible to her. We also know he lied to her in S3 to try and see Madison and her band which was a form of cheating if you ask me. Not physical cheating or even emotional cheating... OK maybe not cheating but deception. Pure deception. He's lucky Amy didn't break up with him after that stunt. But he repays her back not too far into the future by breaking up with her because he couldn't handle the pregnancy reveal and blamed her for knowing for about two seconds before he did. Just awful. I loathe how all of this went down.
I hated everything that happened during and after the baby reveal and it's going to be hard to watch those episodes again.

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Originally Posted by jediseermic (View Post)
Frustration is a word that cannot even justify how so many of us would have felt had all of this transpired.
Oh I know. It would have done more harm to the show by making it even more like a soap opera.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediseermic (View Post)
If they would have broken up after Ephram's ridiculous behavior at the bar (should have broken up way before this time, and never gotten together in the first place) it wouldn't have been so bad. But no, they had to linger, torturing Delia even more, and like we discussed, all the other damage that takes place.
The whole thing went on for too long and it dominated the season and the show itself too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jediseermic (View Post)
100%. I completely agree. I cannot think of any other character that did more damage to the main characters of Everwood. You can say Colin caused chaos but the guy entering a coma and temporarily surviving only to die a short time later affected not only both families but the entire town; however, Colin had some not so great traits but this scenario cannot be blamed on him.

No, Madison deserved this award. She was the dark cloud in this otherwise beautiful series.
She really was a dark cloud that lingered on way too long.
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Old 10-29-2021, 10:50 PM
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Yes, I had a much harsher view of Amy the first time around, but I'm much more sympathetic to her character now.
That is great. I guess all the years of education in psychology allowed me to see the light on Amy from the start. At least all that money was good for something.

Quote:
Yes, Tommy just represented Amy acting out in the aftermath of Colin's death and when she was in the depths of her situational depression, but at least she broke up with him and we never had to see him again after she broke up with him.
Exactly. When you are in a deep depression, you are attracted to darkness in every way possible... dark music, dark shows, dark dress (notice how she dressed and her bangs of sadness), drugs and alcohol, and unfortunately, dark, troubled people too. Amy really acted "very normal" considering her clinical depression that everyone in her family either denied or downplayed. Tommy was a side effect of a bigger problem.

Quote:
You used the perfect word to describe Ephram and Madison's relationship: Toxic. Everything about their relationship was toxic and it got more toxic with every new episode. Ephram really went into a tailspin due to his relationship with Madison, and this rewatch really opened my eyes to how far off the deep end he went with her.
Me too, Jerry. He didn't even care about the legal issue either and that's really not the real Ephram. The fact that he didn't care about this from the start proves he was very quickly into a mode that stripped him of his true self. He was not the same real Ephram anywhere near Madison. It is really scary to watch. It's like a low-key horror storyline dressed up hiding inside a family drama.

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I hate that we were never allowed to be completely rid of this horrible character and she did so much damage on the show, both in this season and in Season Three, with lingering effects in Season Four, and we would have seen her yet again at the end of Season Four and the beginning of Season Five if the show wasn't cancelled. What was Berlanti thinking of with her?
I really wish we knew. I guess he was her "lazy character" he used to make the creative process easier. It's all I can come up with. She was so easy to use for drama and heartache. He could insert her in anywhere once her ridiculous mug was established.

Quote:
I knew that Andy telling Madison to not tell Ephram that she was pregnant was setting a course for disaster, and it all blew up in New York.
I remember yelling at the screen for the first time. I was so frustrated. It was an inevitable disaster waiting to happen... thus, the nicknames, Madisongate and Babygate.

Quote:
I hated everything that happened during and after the baby reveal and it's going to be hard to watch those episodes again.
It really is going to be difficult. We finally will get through Ephram/Madison as a toxic couple and then transition into the baby reveal from Madison herself and then all the guilt and others finding out, followed by Ephram finally finding out and angrily rejects both Andy and Amy. Andy, I can understand, but I will NEVER understand what he did to Amy, who was entirely innocent and would have helped him every step of the way. Instead, he made fun of her, their connection, and threw her in the garbage like a pile of trash.

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Oh I know. It would have done more harm to the show by making it even more like a soap opera.
Definitely.

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The whole thing went on for too long and it dominated the season and the show itself too much.

She really was a dark cloud that lingered on way too long.
Exactly right.
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Old 10-30-2021, 08:40 AM
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As bad as that all was, Amy eventually came to her senses and broke up with Tommy and she never saw him again, and she worked through the depression that she suffered after Colin’s death, and her and Ephram got together as a romantic couple at the end of Season Two, to the joy of all of us who loved them and rooted for them as a couple.
This was my main reason for enjoying season 2....the awakening of Amy and Ephram after 2 disastrous relationships to their true feelings for each other.

Quote:
One thing that hasn’t changed during my rewatch of the show is my hatred for Madison Kellner and every single scene that she was in, and I really got to see how she negatively affected Ephram, who became, in his words, psychotically obsessed with her, and she did real damage to Ephram’s relationships with everyone around him, especially his father and sister, as his obsession with her became all-encompassing and he neglected his relationships with everyone who loved him and cared for him and he behaved in ways that represented continuing new lows for his character.
I will try to think of some positives regarding Madison. She was a good babysitter to Delia (until she developed feelings for Ephram). She did give Ephram some good advice from time to time. She was able to teach him to parallel park. lol I do believe she had feeling for Ephram, but at the same time she was embarrassed by the age difference....hence treating him really poorly and bringing him down rather than building Ephram up. At age 20 Madison should have been alot smarter regarding birth control. I can see Ephram being careless, but Madison? Unacceptable. So much heartache could have been avoided.


Quote:
What aggravates me the most about Madison is how we were never allowed to be done with her and her story because of her pregnancy. A lot of people didn’t like Amy and Tommy or Andy and Linda, and they especially didn’t like Andy and Amanda, but at least those storylines were allowed to end and they were never to be mentioned again, but Madison kept on turning up like a bad penny and she loomed over the happiness of all the major characters like a black cloud, and she did damage to the show itself by making her storyline a soap opera.

Therefore, I have to conclude that Madison did more damage to the main characters on Everwood and the show itself than any other character or storyline.
Madison most certainly did keep popping up....like Poltergeist. She even had the potential to pop up again Season 5!
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Old 10-30-2021, 09:12 AM
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I hated Madison from the moment her you mug showed up on screen.

What’s really sad is if she wouldn’t have gotten together with Ephram she could have been a great influence on Delia.

Regarding Ephram… the much BETTER storyline would have been Ephram crushed on Madison but her never going there with him. They could have remained friends only. They could have had interaction but with Ephram merely crushed. It would have been one million times better. The crush would have been realistic. Madison rejecting it but still friendly with him would have been ideal.
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Old 10-30-2021, 09:22 AM
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I hated Madison from the moment her you mug showed up on screen.

What’s really sad is if she wouldn’t have gotten together with Ephram she could have been a great influence on Delia.
So true. She was a good influence on Delia in the beginning.

Quote:
Regarding Ephram… the much BETTER storyline would have been Ephram crushed on Madison but her never going there with him. They could have remained friends only. They could have had interaction but with Ephram merely crushed. It would have been one million times better. The crush would have been realistic. Madison rejecting it but still friendly with him would have been ideal.
That would have been a better storyline, but I just wouldn't have liked Ephram being rejected and crushed again.
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Old 10-30-2021, 11:50 AM
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So true. She was a good influence on Delia in the beginning.
I will give her that. She was in the beginning, Delia liked her a lot. Then it all went to hell the second weird tension developed between Ephram/Madison.

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That would have been a better storyline, but I just wouldn't have liked Ephram being rejected and crushed again.
Well, if it would have stayed at a mild crush, almost like a funny crush, nothing deep, just him finding her hot. Not crushed so much he's in pain. Almost like he admired her, found her nice looking, but she always knew it was wrong and never let it cross a line.
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Old 10-30-2021, 12:45 PM
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I remember you saying that Madison had a weird thing for Ephram almost right away Michelle.

It takes two to tango, but she encouraged his infatuation with her all along even though she knew it was wrong, and the things she said to him were creepy considering that he was just a 16 year old boy. She didn't want to be seen in public with him and she got fearfully concerned when he crossed the line from infatuation to obsession with her, but she slept with him and she brought everything on herself for getting involved with him in the first place, and then continuing to be involved with him even though she knew it was wrong.

One thing I don't blame her for though is the pregnancy. Yes, she never should have slept with Ephram and they both should have been more careful, but it takes two people to conceive a child, so Ephram was equally at fault for what happened. Andy was ridiculous and incredibly cruel when he told Madison to not tell Ephram that she was pregnant because he wanted to "preserve his innocence" but Ephram's "innocence" was lost as soon as Andy allowed his son to date a 20 year old that was the family babysitter, and that led to them sleeping together, which resulted in her getting pregnant.

I do blame Madison though for telling Ephram about the baby at the worst possible time, on the eve of his Julliard audition, which caused him to walk out on that audition and go into an emotional tailspin. Why couldn't she wait?
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Old 10-30-2021, 07:21 PM
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I remember you saying that Madison had a weird thing for Ephram almost right away Michelle.
It was THAT quick. I also hated how she yelled at Andy and Ephram so quickly or at all. So rude and inconsiderate. She was awful from the start. But if she would have only interacted with Delia it might have worked. Otherwise, puke.

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It takes two to tango, but she encouraged his infatuation with her all along even though she knew it was wrong, and the things she said to him were creepy considering that he was just a 16 year old boy. She didn't want to be seen in public with him and she got fearfully concerned when he crossed the line from infatuation to obsession with her, but she slept with him and she brought everything on herself for getting involved with him in the first place, and then continuing to be involved with him even though she knew it was wrong.

One thing I don't blame her for though is the pregnancy. Yes, she never should have slept with Ephram and they both should have been more careful, but it takes two people to conceive a child, so Ephram was equally at fault for what happened. Andy was ridiculous and incredibly cruel when he told Madison to not tell Ephram that she was pregnant because he wanted to "preserve his innocence" but Ephram's "innocence" was lost as soon as Andy allowed his son to date a 20 year old that was the family babysitter, and that led to them sleeping together, which resulted in her getting pregnant.

I do blame Madison though for telling Ephram about the baby at the worst possible time, on the eve of his Julliard audition, which caused him to walk out on that audition and go into an emotional tailspin. Why couldn't she wait?
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Old 11-22-2021, 11:57 PM
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Yeah, I’m not looking forward to getting to her episodes again. And yeah she was like a large shadow that loomed over the show through S2-S4.

Everwood was really one of the first shows I ever followed from beginning to end during its original airings. And I fought and wanted a Season 5 as much as anybody but when I found out what it was going to be.. I was sort of glad it didn’t. Yes, I wanted to see Ephram and Amy with a drama free from now on but that’s not what we would have gotten if it continued.. at least then.

I mean if we got a continuation now it would be a years later sort of thing where I’d be less worried about them destroying Ephram and Amy. If we got a S5 then oh drama drama drama.

I mean we have an Ephram and Madison baby in canon… and we don’t have an Ephram and Amy baby in Canon. It’s just wrong. Again not the baby’s fault obviously and I don’t believe the Ephram and Madison stuff takes away from any of the Ephram and Amy romance. If Amy could accept and deal with all that then we should have no issue.

Anyway, yeah. I should have stayed out of this thread. Bad memories. But I am starting my first rewatch in over a decade so it was bound to happen. Now on episode 1.5 and we still have Wendell and not Madison.
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Old 11-23-2021, 07:30 AM
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Yeah, I’m not looking forward to getting to her episodes again. And yeah she was like a large shadow that loomed over the show through S2-S4.
That, she was. It is really frustrating this is the reality.

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Everwood was really one of the first shows I ever followed from beginning to end during its original airings. And I fought and wanted a Season 5 as much as anybody but when I found out what it was going to be.. I was sort of glad it didn’t. Yes, I wanted to see Ephram and Amy with a drama free from now on but that’s not what we would have gotten if it continued.. at least then.
I completely agree! That Ferris Wheel scene wouldn't have happened, as Amy would have been standing there waiting while Ephram took the call from Madison. Berlanti claims the Madison storyline would have been just a short storyline with Madison supposedly wanting to get the baby away from the adopted parents. At least that is the strong speculation. Even so, it would have been enough punishment to the fans to take the Ferris Wheel scene away from us, delaying Ephram/Amy once again, and allowing Madison's mug and large dark shadow to haunt and loom once again. No thank you!

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I mean if we got a continuation now it would be a years later sort of thing where I’d be less worried about them destroying Ephram and Amy. If we got a S5 then oh drama drama drama.
You are so right on about this. Exactly! S5 had the potential to be an irritating disaster. A revival, I highly doubt we'd ever see Madison again and Ephram and Amy would be relatively stable.

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I mean we have an Ephram and Madison baby in canon… and we don’t have an Ephram and Amy baby in Canon. It’s just wrong. Again not the baby’s fault obviously and I don’t believe the Ephram and Madison stuff takes away from any of the Ephram and Amy romance. If Amy could accept and deal with all that then we should have no issue.
I love your thoughts. Absolutely! This part will always bother me. Ephram/Madison baby in canon is just sickening. Especially since we didn't get to see (in the future) an Ephram and Amy baby. You make a great point about Amy accepting and dealing with the reality of Madison's pregnancy and the baby too. I still think Amy was amazing having to deal with all of that and there wasn't big focus on it. She finds out shockingly about the baby, Ephram's in NYC, she still tries to get him through the audition, because she loves him and only cares about his success. She gets dumped by Ephram as a result of a pregnancy she was supposedly expected to just accept without having any anger or frustration on her own. Amy handled this situation perfectly and it is a credit to her loyalty, strength, and kindness. I wish we would have seen more of Amy's reaction to all of this privately because Emily would have hit it out of the park like she did everything else. But yes, Amy, like you said, accepted and dealt with all of this beautifully which means we shouldn't have an issue either. I never thought about this! Brilliant point!

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Anyway, yeah. I should have stayed out of this thread. Bad memories. But I am starting my first rewatch in over a decade so it was bound to happen. Now on episode 1.5 and we still have Wendell and not Madison.
Welcome and I'm so glad you are posting thoughts on the board! Looking forward to more of your thoughts on other threads and please exist on this thread as well whenever you feel the need to rant. It can be healthy and therapeutic.
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Old 11-23-2021, 12:02 PM
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That, she was. It is really frustrating this is the reality.



I completely agree! That Ferris Wheel scene wouldn't have happened, as Amy would have been standing there waiting while Ephram took the call from Madison. Berlanti claims the Madison storyline would have been just a short storyline with Madison supposedly wanting to get the baby away from the adopted parents. At least that is the strong speculation. Even so, it would have been enough punishment to the fans to take the Ferris Wheel scene away from us, delaying Ephram/Amy once again, and allowing Madison's mug and large dark shadow to haunt and loom once again. No thank you!



You are so right on about this. Exactly! S5 had the potential to be an irritating disaster. A revival, I highly doubt we'd ever see Madison again and Ephram and Amy would be relatively stable.



I love your thoughts. Absolutely! This part will always bother me. Ephram/Madison baby in canon is just sickening. Especially since we didn't get to see (in the future) an Ephram and Amy baby. You make a great point about Amy accepting and dealing with the reality of Madison's pregnancy and the baby too. I still think Amy was amazing having to deal with all of that and there wasn't big focus on it. She finds out shockingly about the baby, Ephram's in NYC, she still tries to get him through the audition, because she loves him and only cares about his success. She gets dumped by Ephram as a result of a pregnancy she was supposedly expected to just accept without having any anger or frustration on her own. Amy handled this situation perfectly and it is a credit to her loyalty, strength, and kindness. I wish we would have seen more of Amy's reaction to all of this privately because Emily would have hit it out of the park like she did everything else. But yes, Amy, like you said, accepted and dealt with all of this beautifully which means we shouldn't have an issue either. I never thought about this! Brilliant point!



Welcome and I'm so glad you are posting thoughts on the board! Looking forward to more of your thoughts on other threads and please exist on this thread as well whenever you feel the need to rant. It can be healthy and therapeutic.
I had been off fanforum for over a year! Used to come all the time. But since the advent of twitter and other social media thats where i frequent most of the time..

Great memories of this place tho during Everwood, That 70s Show, ER, and Big Bang Theory tho! But i’m not as into the spoiler game anymore. I still love spoilers but I just don’t have time anymore to frequent message boards. Thanks for being so welcoming again. Im happy to see this board is still here all these years later making its posy quota.
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