[everwoodfan52]

Wh-wh-wh-what? And that should take the whole season?! I was going to say that at the end of season five I would have liked to see him adjusted in a relationship with Amy already... like getting them together in episode 17 or thereabouts...

Leo, I think that I misunderstood what you asked for. I thought that you wanted ideas on where to begin the Ephram storyline. You asked where would Ephram be at the end of season 5 and I thought the word was beginning of season 5. I really should learn how to read!

['Tos]

Ooh, I love the idea of Ephram struggling with the reality of choosing to teach, and the struggles of actually learning how to do that. That's awesome. Maybe Kyle comes back while he's struggling with this? A reminder of what his teaching did produce? Gosh, that sounds cheesy, hee. But, you know, that would be a nice use of Kyle's return, to push Ephram into continuing something that he's have a tough time of dealing with. Kyle could be all snarky like about it, saying that Ephram gave up on Julliard and now he's giving up on this too. That sounds cheesy too! Still, I like the idea of Kyle helping Ephram while he's getting a dose of reality.

Just a little mention that since this the Amy/Ephram story is kind of a role reversal of season four where she wants to get back with him, but he doesn't, they still have to be friends and be there for each other. Like when Ephram realized that Kyle was gay, the first person he went to was Amy. They still need to have that connection and relationship, despite not being a couple. *saying the obvious, because I have nothing else*

Just a few thoughts not on the Ephram ending:
How the characters end...you know, it sounds so simple, but it's hard, isn't it? I think for Andy and Nina, they will have to figure out how to be married and how to run this household by seasons end. If we do go with Andy talking to Ephram and Harold about how he's struggling with this new household, obviously the payoff there is that he'll finally have to say these things to Nina. Of course, that doesn't seem like that would last a whole season, although maybe midseason. Hmm.

Well, heh, Bright will definitely have to have chosen a major/career. We cannot end another season with his academic interest being so unclear!

Another post of me throwing out random rambles, hee.

[Thief Of Love]

Oh, perfect use of Kyle! A little cheesy, but in the good Everwood kind of way. Yeah, Ephram's story is coming along nicely. Andy's tough, though. It's easy enough to think of his ongoing story, but what specific conclusion do we give him? Hmm.

Well, heh, Bright will definitely have to have chosen a major/career. We cannot end another season with his academic interest being so unclear!

Darn straight. And he'll have chosen to become...a history professor!

Yeah, okay, now I'm just being weird, hee. The EMT story would be worth pursuing, I think, though I also think it might be a good story for him to really want to be into that job, what with his admiration for Harold's medical work (since that is where the EMT mention came up, after all -- when he expressed how impressed he was by the idea of Harold being able to save someone's life), but to maybe find himself not being quite cut out for it after all. But he'll still figure out his real calling, even if that's not it.

Leo, you had some good thoughts on the Harold/Rose. The tricky thing here is probably how to tell a custody story without it being 1.) cliched or 2.) horribly depressing. They'd probably be able to become foster parents easily enough early on, but then where do we go with Lily's mother? If she returns and is well enough to care for the baby, then she might regain custody and Harold and Rose will be sad. Maybe she wavers on the issue, thinks she wants to regain custody, but decides it would be in Lily's best interest to stay with the Abbotts...but that all seems too easy and very TV movie. Suicide would actually be the most interesting route, but it would also be darker than even Everwood tends to go, so that's probably out, too. Man, this one's tougher than it seems like it would be.

['Tos]

Oh, perfect use of Kyle! A little cheesy, but in the good Everwood kind of way.

Right. Which is going to be a challenge. There are going to be ideas that we come up with that will be cheesy in that Everwood way, and we'll have to make them the kind of cheese that Everwood allowed in that it worked. And the bums made it look so easy too, hee.

I also wanted to say I really liked the ideas you had for Bright/Hannah, Thief. I think Hannah's brother coming back is a great idea for her to turn to Bright again. I think that's the perfect way to go. And your worries about it being soapy, I think again, we'll have to figure out how we're going to take soapy and cheesy ideas and "Everwoodize" them, hee. I'm sure that kind of thing happened in the writing room all the time: someone comes up with an idea, and worries about the cheese or the soap. I don't know how they did it, but there are only a few instances of both.

And I also really liked then you must kiss me 's idea of Hannah telling Bright that she didn't just stay for him. As much as the Amy/Hannah relationship has bugged me on the rare occasion, she does have something brand new there. Even her little friendship with Ephram, that's new. She knows everyone, she has actually connected to people in Everwood like she never has before.

And you know I'm in for the EMT story too. Even if it's not his calling, we can tie into Harold and Edna's reaction to him trying to go for it. I like that Bright's frustrations about choosing a career and lack of direction in general seems to be our arc for him. It was totally set up in season four, so I do think it's the way the writers would have went too.

Yeah, I know we're supposed to be on Ephram, but I've never been an organized person, hee.

Should we try Andy? I have no thoughts at this very moment, but what do people think about where Andy should end the season?

[Thief Of Love]

You know, I've been writing some of these little scenes in my head since Everwood ended, and it's always a matter of getting just the right snarky comment in there, or having at least one of the characters hold back on saying just what he or she is really thinking/feeling, and speaking a little indirectly about the matter at hand. Avoiding the cheese is tough, but doing things that way helps, I think.

And, yeah, I'd like to borrow then you must kiss me's idea, heh. Though for some reason, I envision them discussing the matter in a conversation late in the episode, which I can't quite work out timeline-wise. But maybe Bright just spends the whole summer paranoid that Hannah's decided to stay for his sake, and then she comes back from Minnesota and deflates his ego a bit, hee.

We have arcs for Ephram, Bright, and Hannah (whose arc we haven't actually discussed here yet, but elsewhere plenty -- she adapts beautifully to academia and becomes an English major, whoo!), but what about Amy? She's the only one of the college quartet whose arc is tough to puzzle out. Where do we go from what was started (and dropped) in S4?

Oh, oh! And 'Tos, I'm already imagining the scenario you presented in the Episode Discussion thread, with Bright class-stalking Hannah. I can picture something where it's whatever class Hannah and Ephram have together (since that still seems like the easiest way to get those two to strike up a friendship), and he gives some well-meaning, but doofy, answer, and then Ephram answers correctly, which hurts Bright's pride, because he's already reacting snarkily to Ephram hanging out with Hannah (in a purely friendly way, but Bright's jealous of that, even, because he misses his close friendship with Hannah and now has fewer opportunities to hang out with Ephram on his own). In the scenes in my head.

['Tos]

Quick thought because it's late: .

I can picture something where it's whatever class Hannah and Ephram have together (since that still seems like the easiest way to get those two to strike up a friendship)

I can also imagine some awkwardness in the first few moments the first day. Them sitting together, not really sure what to say. It's like Seinfeld, whenever Jerry isn't there, George and Elaine have no idea what to talk about. Without Bright or Amy there, and with how little they seem to have talked to each other alone and in a class, there might be some initial awkwardness; but then they finally get into things and become great friends. I just mean a little, really tiny moment of greeting each other and all "heyyyy" and then being completely awkward for a few seconds just as a little meta recognition to how little they've had scenes alone with each other. Although I don't know if it would work because the rare scene they do have together, there hasn't been any awkwardness, but the idea made me giggle, so I thought I'd share, hee.

But yes, like everything about poor Bright being a doofus, hee.

And yes, Amy makes more sense to go with. I think we've got a good idea of the Ephram/Amy dynamic in season five, but, yeah, I'm not quite sure what to do with her college life either.

[Abomasum]

Well, I take it that we're done with discussing Ephram... he will be in a relationship with Amy and end the season with finally being okay with having let piano go... can I sum it up that way? Or should I make a flowchart on his season development? Or would anyone else want to do that?

I love all your wild discussing and there are so many brilliant thoughts in there, but... you're jumping... big time. We'll definitely come back to all of it, but it's hard to come to any conclusions this way, that's why I hope you won't be mad if I ask you to focus on one character now:

Bright at season's end (or who ever you would like to go on with.)

[Thief Of Love]

In the most general terms, Bright will have finally found a career path, after trying out one (becoming an EMT) and realizing that it's not for him. The main question is -- what should that different career path be? Now, see, I really love the idea of him getting into something totally unexpected, something you'd never guess Bright might be good at, but I don't think anyone agrees with me on that one, heh. So let's hash out what would be a good path for him to take.

Along the way, he'll spend a lot of time lamely attempting to win back Hannah, which he will eventually do, though not through any of his pathetic efforts. I'm not entirely sure of the exact best way to conclude their story though, either.

A character development chart would be handy -- maybe even just something detailing where the character is at season's beginning, season's end, and season's midpoint?

'Tos, there's a minor comment in one of your above posts that I'm going to respond to in the Hannah thread, since it's way OT here...

ETA: This is jumping again, but if we finish up Bright quickly, then we should probably move on to Amy. I did some thinking about the character last night...and all I could come up with is that she fixates on things easily and throws herself into whatever that fixation is (Colin, Ephram, women's studies and feminism). Also, she had that line to Reid in S4 about not wanting to be like Rose, but wanting to live a bigger life than her mother does. There might be something we can do with that. Overall, though, the brainstorming didn't get me any closer to even guessing a good S5 storyline for her, hee.

[everwoodfan52]

Well, I take it that we're done with discussing Ephram... he will be in a relationship with Amy and end the season with finally being okay with having let piano go... can I sum it up that way? Or should I make a flowchart on his season development? Or would anyone else want to do that?

I don't think we are done with discussing Ephram. We really shouldn't start another character until we are finished with him. I like the idea of a flow chart... it dosen't have to be a very detailed one....may just 5 major storylines for him that end with he and Amy being together and Ephram sure of his career choice. Ephram should never give up piano.
I really like the idea of Ephram opening his own piano school...kind of like a mini-Julliard in Everwood. All students welcome...from any background.
Kyle could be a guest speaker at his school.

[Abomasum]

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) I don't think we are done with discussing Ephram. We really shouldn't start another character until we are finished with him. I like the idea of a flow chart... it dosen't have to be a very detailed one....may just 5 major storylines for him that end with he and Amy being together and Ephram sure of his career choice. Ephram should never give up piano. I really like the idea of Ephram opening his own piano school...kind of like a mini-Julliard in Everwood. All students welcome...from any background. Kyle could be a guest speaker at his school.

Yeah, I was surprised, too. But since thoughts were wandering away from him, I thought that that was that. (That was many thats! o.O There has to be something wrong with that sentence... but hey! I'm German.)

I didn't mean to say that he's giving up on piano... I meant being okay with coming out of that world where there's only him and a piano, can't say it right, I'm tired, my neck hurts, my head hurts and I'm dopey, don't be too hard on me.

Yeah... sure, he might open a piano school... one day, but not in season five, right? o.O I mean, that would be exaggeration... he might earn some money with his lessons, but not that much! So even if it is a great idea and all... should we really focus on that in season five?


Since Betty said so, we should probably go back to Ephram and cancel Bright, I'm sorry. I thought we could just quickly decide where the characters will be at the end of the season before going on to the details of the development of the characters throughout the season, but maybe it will indeed be better to stick to a character until we know exactly what's happening to him or her and then go on to the next... I don't know. I'm just not feeling well today... I'm gonna go and watch The Simpsons.

[Thief Of Love]

Poor Leo, we're driving you to madness and overuse of "that," hee. (And, actually, that was perfectly grammatically correct. English is weird, heh.)

I think this is getting tricky because we all brainstorm in different ways -- like, I tend to jump from one thing to another and then back to that first thing when I'm plotting a story, but that's not as messy because it's all contained in one notebook, so it's easy to flip from one page to another. Whereas here, the format is so linear that it's harder to keep track of where things are going.

This is probably a weird suggestion, but I have a couple of unused blog accounts -- maybe we can use one of those to keep charts/outlines of each character's season progression, so everything is in one place and we can consult the outlines easily (more easily than we could in a document file)?

[everwoodfan52]

You mean that Ephram is not going to finish 3 years of college season 5?

Seriously, Leo, I like Thief's idea. I'm going to try to keep out of this for a while....I seem to give you a headache and a sore neck and make you dopey...oh yeah, the medicine is making you dopey.

[Abomasum]

Originally Posted by Thief Of Love (View Post) Poor Leo, we're driving you to madness and overuse of "that," hee. (And, actually, that was perfectly grammatically correct. English is weird, heh.)

It's a strange, strange world.

I think this is getting tricky because we all brainstorm in different ways -- like, I tend to jump from one thing to another and then back to that first thing when I'm plotting a story, but that's not as messy because it's all contained in one notebook, so it's easy to flip from one page to another. Whereas here, the format is so linear that it's harder to keep track of where things are going. This is probably a weird suggestion, but I have a couple of unused blog accounts -- maybe we can use one of those to keep charts/outlines of each character's season progression, so everything is in one place and we can consult the outlines easily (more easily than we could in a document file)?

Good idea! Also means that I don't have to organize it and to be completely honest, my middle name is Chaos, I'm a pig, whatever Amy Abbott can do to a clean room within a few hours, I'm worse...

Originally Posted by Betty Seriously, Leo, I like Thief's idea. I'm going to try to keep out of this for a while....I seem to give you a headache and a sore neck and make you dopey...oh yeah, the medicine is making you dopey.

NOOOO, you're not going anywhere, young lady! I have a sore neck because I'm stupid, I feel queasy and dizzy because of the painkillers and the pain that I still feel is what gives me a headache. Do not assume that you're what's giving me a headache ever again. You're cool... and I'm just a little angry that I hurt my neck now, because right now it would be important for me to be able to sit without pain. And you can't keep out of this, we need you here!

[Thief Of Love]

Okay, here's the blog...with nothing in it yet, heh:

Everwood Season 5

I think I'll just copy and paste our character notes thus far and try to sort them into some sort of chronological order.

['Tos]

*seconds the need for Betty to stick around* Seriously, Bets (was going to go all Don Draper and call you Birdie, but I think you would have kicked me, hee), you have great ideas. While we may not be able to fit Ephram actually opening an academy into the season, we are going to have to talk about his desires as a teacher, and what he'd like to do after college, so that can definitely come into play.

And I fourth the idea for a flowchart/outline. And yes, I'm definitely the jumpy type too. I had a fairly large idea about Andy/Nina today, but I typed it up and I'll save it for when we get to them.

So, any more ideas for Ephram? We've got all this:

Well, I take it that we're done with discussing Ephram... he will be in a relationship with Amy and end the season with finally being okay with having let piano go... can I sum it up that way? Or should I make a flowchart on his season development? Or would anyone else want to do that?

Plus Andy going to him for help with his relationship with Nina and dealing with Delia/Sam, rather than Ephram going to Andy. We've got a Hannah/Ephram friendship. And..this is just me nitpicking, but maybe not so much letting piano go, as letting other instruments, uh, in? I think his first and major musical love will always be piano, but he'll get the dose of reality that he'll need more than just piano to reach his new goal, despite some major reluctance and struggle to like that.

Ooh, did we decide if Hannah and Ephram are going to have a comically awkward date? Or any hints of a tiny romance (Berlanti's idea) that they quickly realize will never work and become better friends as a result (what we hope would have came of his idea), OR are we putting them as closer friends in the classroom environment, pushing them together as a result of them both seeing how similar they are in a class?

That was my attempt at semi-organization, heh. Just making sure we've got enough for him, at least for the groundwork and his major stories, and then we can move on.