[Thief Of Love]

Whoa, now! I'm not the only writer around and I'm frankly not sure any of us will really be able to do Harold's dialogue justice. Though I probably have more free time than anyone else here to try, heh.

Incidentally, there's a new episode of the GG Virtual Season 9 "airing" tonight; should I post a link so you guys can get some idea of what their scheme looks like?

[everwoodfan52]

Incidentally, there's a new episode of the GG Virtual Season 9 "airing" tonight; should I post a link so you guys can get some idea of what their scheme looks like?

Yes, Please!

[Abomasum]

Yeah, please do that, Thief! I love you for throwing yourself into this so much, you know that? And if it were up to me, you could have the academic archs. German education is a whole different world, I don't understand the American system at all.

Okay, I'll sum this up...

We stroke the Ferris wheel, Amy never declared her love, Ephram moves on.

Nina is not pregnant.

Ephram and Hannah hang out more.

That much we agree on, right?

What about Madison? Should we get her back? (I'm not sure we decided yet) Maybe not in an agenda to get their baby, but just for us to find out, that she's home again. I didn't necessarily love her, but she didn't seem to be too happy in New York... and it would be kind of funny to see her running around the campus of A&M once in a while, too...


As far as the way we write the episodes goes... I'd like the script format, too, even though I'd be fine with both. Also sticking to the usual episode format would be cool.
I don't really like the idea of getting one story arch and sticking to it all the way through, though. Of course, there are characters I get better than others as it is for all of us, but just writing scenes for one storyline all the time... We could just plan out each episode together from beginning to end, devide it into acts and scenes, vaguely decide what happens in each scene and then decide who writes which scene. That way we could still keep the same people on the same stories most of the time, but switch occasionally, the way it fits. I believe this way the episodes would fit together and form a whole easier and we could add in an episode topic once in a while, like they did it in the show...
And I bet most of this is what you meant, Thief. I'm sorry. I'll blame everything on the meds.




Okay the storylines that we talked about (more or less) so far are..

- Academic archs of Ephram, Hannah, Bright and Amy

-Ephram and Hannah

- The new Brown household (Andy-Nina, Andy-Sam, Andy-Delia and Nina-Delia)

- Delia as a young teenager

- Amy and Ephram


The others that need to be discussed...

- Bright and Hannah

- Amy and Hannah (becoming roommates?)

- The Abbott household: Edna, Harold and Rose in the same house. All the time. With a baby.

- Ephram and Stephanie... we can't just forget her... even though sometimes I'd like to...

- Harold and Andy... we need much of them. My opinion.

I may have forgotten a lot... forgive me, I'm dopey.


And more...

- Should we mention Kyle once in a while?

- I've been thinking about bringing Linda home again... how do you feel about that? It might be nice for Edna... unless Linda was to be by then very sick... I don't know that much about HIV.

- AMANDA! ... kidding. Just wanted to scare you a little.

Okay... if you understand what I'm trying to say and ask at all, you definitely deserve a big cookie. Sorry.

[Thief Of Love]

Hee, well I love you for starting the thread and finally getting something in action!

Ooh, let's bring back Linda and Amanda, and Dr. Trott, and set up some big elaborate Andy love pentagon! Or not.

Heh, but I think it would be cool to have Linda make a guest appearance. I mean, she probably would have at some point during the actual show if it weren't for Desperate Housewives, so it'd be nice to have her drop by and see how Edna and Harold and the newly-expanded Abbott family are doing.

Madison, I'm unsure about. Like, I don't really have a problem with the character, but I'm wondering what non-melodramatic story could be told if she appeared briefly. Something to tie in with Ephram thinking about his plans for the future? Where she seemed to have all these goals, but then got sort of lost after the baby thing?

Re: Bright/Hannah, here's some speculation I posted on their thread yesterday:

I think that, for much of a S5, the two would have focused on their friendship rather than getting back together romantically right away. We know, actually, that they probably were going to stay apart, because I just don't see how else the Hannah/Ephram 'newfound friendship/temporary weird flirtation' angle would have worked. So Bright and Hannah would be friends and would probably both be preoccupied with school for much of the season -- Hannah getting into the academia thing, Bright trying to determine his calling -- though, as I mentioned somewhere (here or in another thread, I can't recall) a few months ago, I can imagine Ephram trying to push Bright back into the dating world, because it would only be fair after all the grief Bright gave Ephram about Amy, hee. And, to continue the theme of repeating myself, I also had this scenario in my head in which Hannah's brother visits and informs her that he's tested positive for the Huntington's gene, and this would be the impetus for Hannah to turn back to Bright for solace.

So we can put the various components of that up for discussion.

I also like the idea of Kyle maybe putting in a guest appearance, too, though I'd like him to still be attending Juilliard.

[everwoodfan52]

I'm indifferent about Madison coming back. I wouldn't mind her return, unless it is to try to get Ephram back.

I also like the idea of Kyle maybe putting in a guest appearance, too, though I'd like him to still be attending Juilliard.

I would definitely want him to come back. I'd like him to come back with more confidence and possibly a boyfriend.

I've been thinking about bringing Linda home again... how do you feel about that?

I would feel good about that. I wouldn't want her to come back sick. I would prefer Linda to come back with a husband. I really liked Linda and wouldn't want her to come back alone, watching Andy happy with Nina, and feeling badly.

love you for throwing yourself into this so much, you know that?

Hey Thief, I believe that Leo loves you so much that she wouldn't even mind losing her position as our lone mod elf.

She does need to give you a star and a bunny.

['Tos]

I don't have any huge preferences on how we end up writing them, although I really like the way you described it, Leo. Very TV writer's room, and I think it would help us with some confidence, hee. I mean, as much as I caaaann write, I really have not done anything remotely public and since Everwood is my pinnacle as far as television goes, I have absolutely no confidence in myself doing the show any justice at all, hee, so that would be a good way to make sure it's collaborative and we can help each other and have input and all that. Or help me, basically. I mean, it's kind of like how they wrote "Home" and all the big finales: just everyone getting together throwing ideas and writing different scenes. So, yeah, I like that.

I have no real strong preferences on Madison (Canadian indecisiveness again, hee). I do like Thief's idea, what happened after the whole baby drama to her life. Honestly, if we do include her it shouldn't be all that much of anything anyway, as Sarah Lancaster was probably never going to be in season five for long with What About Brian. If we do deal with Madison, we could either push it a little further in the season, or it probably would be something smaller. And then, you have to wonder if there's any point if it's going to be something quite small. Maybe a recognition of how far Ephram has come since she saw him last? A thank you for the phone call apology, and maybe he can face to face apologize rather than on the phone, and voila, she leaves never to return?

I think the most important thing, just generally but once we really do get to plotting things out, is Andy and Ephram. Which is obvious, hee, but I wanted to emphasize that because I think we all agree that they are the core of the show and why season four is as good as it is. And it's tough to figure out what to do with them. You absolutely cannot go back on season four where they are equals, adults, father and son, bonding and just having a relationship. As much as there needs to be angst for Amy/Ephram, there needs to be about zero angst for Andy/Ephram, I think. But then you have to make sure it doesn't tread on what season four did and just get all repetitive. I do think that will be one of the biggest challenges, as it should be because they are the core of the show.

And yes, Kyle!

[Abomasum]

Originally Posted by Thief Of Love (View Post) Hee, well I love you for starting the thread and finally getting something in action!

Hee, if we love each other we can do everything! Hurray for our season five!

Ooh, let's bring back Linda and Amanda, and Dr. Trott, and set up some big elaborate Andy love pentagon! Or not.

Oh, my God! You're a genius. I just had the greatest idea, they bring two Andy Juniors! (Three would be fatal... if it were not, though, three would be even better!)

Heh, but I think it would be cool to have Linda make a guest appearance. I mean, she probably would have at some point during the actual show if it weren't for Desperate Housewives, so it'd be nice to have her drop by and see how Edna and Harold and the newly-expanded Abbott family are doing.

Yes. I would definitely love that. Especially now that Linda heard about how her Mom was about to run away from the family because of Irv's death... I'd want to be there for my mother...

Madison, I'm unsure about. Like, I don't really have a problem with the character, but I'm wondering what non-melodramatic story could be told if she appeared briefly. Something to tie in with Ephram thinking about his plans for the future? Where she seemed to have all these goals, but then got sort of lost after the baby thing?

Hmm.. not a bad idea. Then again, he lost that baby, too and did think about his future already... still, it could make him think again, especially when he just dest decided to change his Amy-picture.
Maybe she could also guide Delia a little bit in that horrible part of her life. I remember how my old babysitter's visits always brightened me up very much, but she used to be there since I was only two years old... we were probably closer.
She could also talk to Andy, which is unavoidable if she does visit Delia. It might set Andy's heart at peace if she were ready to forgive him, I can't imagine him being okay with having done this to her.
And then, as the last thing that could be done with her appearance, we could use her for upsetting Amy a little bit. Amy might see her with Ephram, still unsure about herself and Ephram's relationship and have an "Amy freaks out" episode when we have nothing else to do with her... A little Amy craziness can't be bad. I love it.

Re: Bright/Hannah, here's some speculation I posted on their thread yesterday: So we can put the various components of that up for discussion.

That all sounds very good.
The only thing that I still can't get into my head is the Hannah/Ephram flirtation thing... I can't imagine it, it seems so out of place to me...

I also like the idea of Kyle maybe putting in a guest appearance, too, though I'd like him to still be attending Juilliard.

Yes, that's what I was thinking about... just so that he doesn't disappear completely with him having been such an important part of Ephram's life.

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post) Hey Thief, I believe that Leo loves you so much that she wouldn't even mind losing her position as our lone mod elf. She does need to give you a star and a bunny.

Oh, I believe I'm too selfish for that. No... that would be okay, you're a better elf than I am. But you won't get my star and my bunny, ask 'Tos! He gave me mine.

Originally Posted by 'Tos (View Post) I don't have any huge preferences on how we end up writing them, although I really like the way you described it, Leo. Very TV writer's room, and I think it would help us with some confidence, hee. I mean, as much as I caaaann write, I really have not done anything remotely public and since Everwood is my pinnacle as far as television goes, I have absolutely no confidence in myself doing the show any justice at all, hee, so that would be a good way to make sure it's collaborative and we can help each other and have input and all that. Or help me, basically. I mean, it's kind of like how they wrote "Home" and all the big finales: just everyone getting together throwing ideas and writing different scenes. So, yeah, I like that.

Yeah, that was my thought. I'd be so lost if I had to figure out a whole storyline on my own, especially with my language problems but also my bad writing. I write, a lot, but I don't think I'm good at it at all. And writing our season five is just so huge, it needs to be the most perfect that we can make it... and if we add the bits of perfection that we all have in us together, we might get quite a high degree of perfection, there can't be too many cooks in the kitchen this time.

I have no real strong preferences on Madison (Canadian indecisiveness again, hee). I do like Thief's idea, what happened after the whole baby drama to her life. Honestly, if we do include her it shouldn't be all that much of anything anyway, as Sarah Lancaster was probably never going to be in season five for long with What About Brian. If we do deal with Madison, we could either push it a little further in the season, or it probably would be something smaller. And then, you have to wonder if there's any point if it's going to be something quite small. Maybe a recognition of how far Ephram has come since she saw him last? A thank you for the phone call apology, and maybe he can face to face apologize rather than on the phone, and voila, she leaves never to return?

Yup, it would be nice to find out what happened to her and to let Ephram apologize in person...

I think the most important thing, just generally but once we really do get to plotting things out, is Andy and Ephram. Which is obvious, hee, but I wanted to emphasize that because I think we all agree that they are the core of the show and why season four is as good as it is. And it's tough to figure out what to do with them. You absolutely cannot go back on season four where they are equals, adults, father and son, bonding and just having a relationship. As much as there needs to be angst for Amy/Ephram, there needs to be about zero angst for Andy/Ephram, I think. But then you have to make sure it doesn't tread on what season four did and just get all repetitive. I do think that will be one of the biggest challenges, as it should be because they are the core of the show.

How could I have forgotten that?! I agree with you, there should be no angst at all.

['Tos]

Yeah, that was my thought. I'd be so lost if I had to figure out a whole storyline on my own, especially with my language problems but also my bad writing. I write, a lot, but I don't think I'm good at it at all. And writing our season five is just so huge, it needs to be the most perfect that we can make it... and if we add the bits of perfection that we all have in us together, we might get quite a high degree of perfection, there can't be too many cooks in the kitchen this time.

Right. We all come with characters and storylines we like best, and characters and stories we know best, so yes, each bringing something to table and all that mushy stuff!

About Andy and Ephram, I guess my personal idea of what they would be like is a lot like what they were in season four: there for each other. Neither have very many friends. Andy can talk to Harold and he can talk to Nina. Nina's now part of his life, and that should facilitate talking to her more, but of course it probably won't. He'll want to say things to Harold and Ephram that he can't say to her. There is no doubt that there will be a transition between being friends with feelings and being a married couple. Andy hasn't been married in years, Nina hasn't had a good marriage with Carl, Andy has to make up for his marriage with Julia, and Andy is going to be his clueless self at times, and Nina is going to yell at him at times for it, heh. I think it would be neat to see Andy going to Ephram for help, you know? A lot of season four was Ephram going to Andy to just get his thoughts out, and Andy loved it and he needed it (think of that moment where Ephram is going to New York and Andy is going to miss him), but it would be fun to see Andy with problems this time, and him choosing to go to his son to talk about them. That would at least separate it from season four, although continuing in the same new relationship.

Plus I just imagined a scene of Andy, Harold and Ephram all hanging out or discussing a huge problem Andy has, with Ephram coming to the door and Harold's there and both not knowing the other one was going to be there, and how awkward that would be for Ephram and Harold, hee.

Anyway, I don't really know where we're going next, so I thought I'd ramble some more, because it's fun.

[Thief Of Love]

I think something that might be helpful to think about, for plotting purposes, is how we want the season to end -- where should all these characters be, and how do we build to that point? It's kind of daunting, heh, but it's probably the most effective way to start mapping things out more specifically.

Ephram and Andy's relationship should definitely remain on the friendly, mature course it began in S4, especially with Andy having entirely new kid issues, between dealing with a nearly-teenaged Delia and a likely-confused stepson in poor, Jake-loving little Sam. Man, there is such major story material with the blending of the Brown/Feeney households. Oh, and we have to make the Andy/Nina wedding episode a special event! Could be a midseason ep or the finale, but it probably shouldn't happen too early on, because, yeah, there's a whole lot of adjusting that's going to need to go on there, hee.

Then there's Harold and Rose, whom we haven't really discussed yet. I can already envision some sort of custody story involving Lily, but at the same time that seems like too obvious a route to go. What are everyone else's thoughts on their major storyline?

And here's the GG Virtual Season link.

[everwoodfan52]

Oh, I'm loving all of your ideas. I like the idea of Andy coming over to Ephram's apartment....sitting on his sofa.....putting his feet up and talking to Ephram about his problems. He could maybe ask Ephram's advice about how to deal with Sam....you know....not wanting to make the same mistakes that he did the first time.
I like the idea of Madison coming back for a short while....just long enough for Ephram to apologize to her in person...just long enough for Madison to look at the new mature Ephram longingly, while thinking, how did I give this fabulous guy up?!?
Then I'd like her to bid everyone good bye and leave.
As far as people returning....I'd like to see Chris Templeton return. He is a music teacher at the university...Ephram is bound to have some dealings with him. I would also like to see this new non-loner-piano- prodigy- geek Ephram have more friends in college and interact with people other than his dad, sister. bright, amy, and hannah.

[Abomasum]

I love all of your ideas as well.

I have no other idea what to do with Harold and Rose, either, Thief. But even if it is an obvious route... Lilly's mom has schizophrenia... I don't know that much about schizophrenia, but I believe it comes in phases, at one point it comes, gets worse and worse, reaches it's highest point and gets better again, then takes a while before returning... she left her daughter outside the Abbott home alone and ran away, hid from the world... but if that phase ends, which, I understand, it should, she will be better again, maybe, probably, not completely normal, but not at the point where she's so scared to hurt her daughter that she leaves her alone. So she might be better again, maybe with medication almost normal and then she would want her daughter back. Even though it would be an obvious storyline... it would also be rather likely.
The other thing I know about schizophrenia is, that many schizophrenics commit suicide... which doesn't seem unlikely either, after her husband died and she didn't take her medication for 9 months... question is whether we really want to go there...

And wow, the Gilmore Girls Virtual Seasons page looks great... I don't know anything about Gilmore Girls, so I didn't read much of the episode... but I would definitely prefer the script format for us...





You're right about deciding where we want the characters to be at the end of the season at the beginning, so that we know where we need to be after 22 episodes. Maybe we could just sum up a little season end report for each character separately in a short discussion.

Let's start with Ephram: Where will he be at the end of season five? Romantic relationship, other relationships, career... whatever...

[Thief Of Love]

Ephram's a good starting point. Hmm, I've been thinking about his career and studies, and, looking over the requirements for Music Ed majors at a few different schools, I'm having trouble picturing him sticking with that particular emphasis. I love him as a private piano instructor, and think that would be something good for him to continue to do, but Music Ed majors have to study several different instruments (in order to be able to guide kids through the basic levels of playing them) and are expected to teach whole classrooms of students, and Ephram, with his major piano focus and introvertedness, just doesn't seem like the type to be really into all that. I could see him being happier with a Music Performance major, but I'm not sure there would be much drama involved in switching from one specialization to the other, heh. Unless he went some radically different route, and made the music instruction a side career rather than his primary goal, but I can't even fathom what career Ephram could have that would make him happier than doing something that involves the piano.

[everwoodfan52]

Originally Posted by Abomasum (View Post) You're right about deciding where we want the characters to be at the end of the season at the beginning, so that we know where we need to be after 22 episodes. Maybe we could just sum up a little season end report for each character separately in a short discussion. Let's start with Ephram: Where will he be at the end of season five? Romantic relationship, other relationships, career... whatever...

I just need to repeat, Leo, how proud I am of the way you have terrifically taken the bull by the horns in this endeavor of ours! Such a super job of organizing the project and really making us think!!

Back to Ephram: Well, if there is no Ferris Wheel scene.....Ephram is still unaware of Amy's feelings toward him. He will still have Stephanie. I'd like to have that relationship phase out. He will come to realize that Stephanie is cute, smart, fun......but there will be something missing in that relationshipfor him that he just can't put his finger on. Ephram will realize that Stephanie is seriously falling for him....and is more attached to the relationship than he is. Ephram being the terrific guy that he is.....doesn't want to lead her on and hurt her any further....so he breaks it off. Of course he talks this over with Bright...Bright tells him that he's crazy.
Ephram will be unattached again....ready to start Colorado A&M.


ETA: I just saw your post, Thief. I think that we both posted at the same time.
As far as teaching music ed.....in a middle school he would need to teach a general band class, a jazz band class, and give indiviual lessons to the students in the band.
He's so talented musically that I don't think that he will have much difficulty picking up the basics of the trumpet, saxophone, clarinet, flute.....those are the most popular student instruments. He would have 4 years to learn.
Of course, not being musical, I may be totally off based about this.

With all the money that Ephram saves up giving private lessons.....he could open up a Piano academy when he graduates. (Is there such a thing as a piano academy?)


ETA:: I saw a movie once (true story) in which a woman taught violin in an inner city school and made a huge impact on those kids. Can't you just see Ephram teaching in a depressed school...really motivating those children to love piano.....reaching them. I can see that huge smile on his face now!

[Abomasum]

You're a genius, Thief! What would we do without your research and your thought-out ideas?!
I agree that teaching a whole class and learning other instruments was not what he intended when he said that he wanted to teach. I believe you're right when assuming that the introverted Ephram we know wouldn't be too happy to be a classroom-teacher, but... still I can picture him deciding to do it. He's grown so much as a person in season four and I doubt that he's finished yet. Giving up piano as his only instrument and spending much time on other instruments would definitely throw him into a coflict, like me right now picturing him with a violin, which... scares me. On the one hand it would be scary.. Ephram and... no piano, on the other hand it would be quite interesting to see him dealing with that, it would scare him as well for a longer time, which would be a little bit of drama. He's letting his picture go, growing, in a way, out of it, so why not try to find the strength to change the plan in the career as well. I have the feeling that he's not the introvert, that we're thinking of when we hear "Ephram Brown", anymore, he'd be able make himself stand in front of a whole group of students if he really wanted to. Of course, the question is: Does he really want to? And do we?

If he decides to become a Music Performance major - and I'd be completely okay with that, too - he'll decide that in the summer right? Which we should be jumping across in the usual fashion anyway, so yes, there will be no drama, we'll just have to explain it somehow.

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 I just need to repeat, Leo, how proud I am of the way to have terrifically taken the bull by the horns in this endeveor of ours! Such a super job of organizing the project and really making us think!!

Thank you. I'm trying... I just don't feel very organized right now.

Back to Ephram: Well, if there is no Ferris Wheel scene.....Ephram is still unaware of Amy's feelings toward him. He will still have Stephanie. I'd like to have that relationship phase out. He will come to realize that Stephanie is cute, smart, fun......but there will be something missing in that relationship. Ephram will realize that Stephanie is seriously falling for him....and is more attached to the relationship than he is. Ephram being the terrific guy that he is.....doesn't want to lead her on and hurt her any further....so he breaks it off. Ephram will be unattached again....ready to start Colorado A&M.

Wh-wh-wh-what? And that should take the whole season?! I was going to say that at the end of season five I would have liked to see him adjusted in a relationship with Amy already... like getting them together in episode 17 or thereabouts...


ETA:
Didn't see your ETAs, Betty.... I like your thoughts. I gotta lie down... on my back... and stare at the ceiling now...

[Thief Of Love]

still I can picture him deciding to do it. He's grown so much as a person in season four and I doubt that he's finished yet. Giving up piano as his only instrument and spending much time on other instruments would definitely throw him into a coflict, like me right now picturing him with a violin, which... scares me. On the one hand it would be scary.. Ephram and... no piano, on the other hand it would be quite interesting to see him dealing with that, it would scare him as well for a longer time, which would be a little bit of drama. He's letting his picture go, growing, in a way, out of it, so why not try to find the strength to change the plan in the career as well. I have the feeling that he's not the introvert, that we're thinking of when we hear "Ephram Brown", anymore, he'd be able make himself stand in front of a whole group of students if he really wanted to. Of course, the question is: Does he really want to? And do we?

There we go! I think we've got Ephram's music storyline. He'll probably still be grappling a little with the transition from the longheld dream of performing to that of teaching, and, on top of that, he'll be facing the reality of what it means to seriously learn how to teach, and to have to explore more facets of music, after the relatively narrow experiences he's had as just a teenage piano student and private tutor.

And I also agree that it would be good to have Ephram and Amy reunite some time around midseason; enough time apart for them to work on their goals and academic issues, and to angst a bit, but providing enough time in the last batch of eps for them to be in a solid relationship at season's end.