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Old 06-30-2012, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Betty

Michelle,Mickey"s Diner looks so retro and cool. It's very similar to NJ diners.
Yes, I love the diner atmosphere.

Koni, your prom sounds awesome!

So I'm definitely getting nervous for when President Obama runs again. Why? I don't think he will get re-elected. I remember way back in the day when I was pushing so hard for H. Clinton for this very reason. She had a perfect plan, every single issue was tackled and well taken care of. She would have gotten the job done. I didn't feel Obama was nearly as prepared and ready which is why I argued with people right here on this very thread that H. Clinton was the better candidate. Now, I am sitting here a dedicated liberal knowing we will probably lose the next election to Romney, that is my prediction. I am not a happy camper as a result. It's a lose/lose for this American.
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:31 PM
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Penn State Disaster

Okay, man, I've about had it with the Penn State situation. I have family all over PA (though mostly in the Pittsburgh area and Pitt is largely 'the team' everyone supports) and I've always showed support for Penn State over the years. I can't anymore. If this report is true, then heads are going to roll. Honestly, I feel like Penn State football should even be stripped permanently. This is disgusting. What does everyone else think?

Here's what I just read:

Penn State review recasts story of football hero Paterno - CNN.com
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Old 07-12-2012, 07:13 PM
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"There is a lot about his life that's worth emulating," he said. "You have to measure every human by the good they've done, the bad they've done. I don't think any of us wants to be measured by the worst things we've ever been done in our life."

I'm sorry, but the bad he's done far outweighs the good he's done and that is the way that he should be measured. I can't believe he knew this was happening and didn't move mountains to make sure something was done about it.
And...I really believe that Sandusky 's wife is also guilty of knowing what was going on and enabling her husband.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:15 AM
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I agree. The excerpt that is most damning to me, is this one:

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Once, in February, 2001, the four men decided they would report the incident to the Department of Public Welfare; but Paterno then had a conversation with Curley, and the men agreed not to do so, Freeh wrote.
In other words, they were going to report it, JoePa talked to one of them, and it didn't get reported. That isn't an instance of him turning over responsibility to his superiors and trusting that they'd do the right thing as he's always maintained. That isn't a lapse of judgement. That's JoePa stepping in and covering something up, pure and simple. I don't see how else you could take that.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:32 AM
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Exactly, Alan. He did appear to cover it up. In my mind, he was literally "okaying" this atrocious, criminal behavior by Sandusky. He knew rapes were taking place and he was more worried about his precious football team, and how things appeared over that monster, Sandusky, raping these boys. In my mind, he is no better than Sandusky. Betty, you are right, unless Sandusky's wife is the definition of stupid, she had to know what was going on. At the very least, she had to have known "something" was off and not right and I bet she just turned her head away from it because he was bringing in great money and was such a prominent figure within the football program. My jaw dropped hearing about the janitor who knew what was going on but turned the other cheek because he was afraid of losing his job. WHAT WAS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?!

This investigation is not finished and I bet even more people will come forward too. What do you guys think about folding the program completely?
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Old 07-13-2012, 01:27 PM
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I spent a good part of the morning reading the actual report, and it is very disheartening and infuriating to read the responses of everyone involved. Every thought was given to the university or even Sandusky himself, but no one seemed to care about the children involved. I mean, apparently Sandusky offered to tell Schultz the name of the child that McQueary saw him with, and he was told that Schultz didn't want to know.

Oh, and Paterno was told about the incident on Saturday, but he didn't call Shultz and Curley until Sunday because he didn't want to 'interfere with their weekend.' That statement just floored me. There just aren't enough words for the disappointment I feel in a fellow human being that he reacted that way.
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Old 07-13-2012, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan
I spent a good part of the morning reading the actual report, and it is very disheartening and infuriating to read the responses of everyone involved. Every thought was given to the university or even Sandusky himself, but no one seemed to care about the children involved. I mean, apparently Sandusky offered to tell Schultz the name of the child that McQueary saw him with, and he was told that Schultz didn't want to know.

Oh, and Paterno was told about the incident on Saturday, but he didn't call Shultz and Curley until Sunday because he didn't want to 'interfere with their weekend.' That statement just floored me. There just aren't enough words for the disappointment I feel in a fellow human being that he reacted that way.
Yes, I am with you. I'm just sickened and I wish Paterno was still around because I want this guy right here in front of everyone responding to this. In my mind, his death was an easy route for him. He's gone now while we learn these things and I wish he would have been around to comment and accept his role in this. To me, he is no better than Sandusky. He didn't actually rape those boys but in my mind, he HELPED by not going to the proper authorities.

I am sure more will come out stating that Paterno and others did other things wrong, and there were key moments the abuse and rape would have STOPPED had they done the right thing. I almost blame Paterno and the others even more than the animal predator, Sandusky. He was a lost cause, he was the human form of evil doing his sick criminal acts but the others should have protected those children and prevented further rapes from taking place. They failed and anyone involved who knew should be even charged with something in my mind. This is so sickening.

Honestly, I want the football program gone. This school doesn't deserve to have one anymore. It should be wiped out in my mind. It would be the proper punishment because rapes went on while protecting the football program, rapes were taking place just for the damn program. The one way to right this incredible wrong (or at least somewhat try to) is by taking away the football program for good. Those children lost parts of their souls forever for being violated by a predator. The football program should be gone.

Last edited by jediwands; 07-13-2012 at 02:36 PM
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Old 07-13-2012, 02:41 PM
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I see your point, but I also hesitate to punish all those students and the community in general because of the action of 4-5 people. I mean, if SMU could get the death penalty for what their program did, then I can definitely see how a cover-up of disgusting and criminal behavior for the sole purpose of protecting the university and football program's images could conceivably happen. It never will, of course, but it's not unjustified.

I'm most disappointed with the people who still blindly defend Joe Paterno after stuff like this comes out. I'm the first person in line to defend one of my heroes if I think that they've done nothing wrong, but once a legal document surfaces that proves that he or she was in the wrong, I stop. I am a fan of Brad Pitt, but if something like this came to light about him, I don't know that I could watch his movies anymore, much less defend him with blind loyalty.
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Old 07-13-2012, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan
I see your point, but I also hesitate to punish all those students and the community in general because of the action of 4-5 people. I mean, if SMU could get the death penalty for what their program did, then I can definitely see how a cover-up of disgusting and criminal behavior for the sole purpose of protecting the university and football program's images could conceivably happen. It never will, of course, but it's not unjustified.
Yes, that's the a good point. What they should do is clean house as much as possible and get those out of the program that were remotely related to the situation if at all possible.

Quote:
I'm most disappointed with the people who still blindly defend Joe Paterno after stuff like this comes out. I'm the first person in line to defend one of my heroes if I think that they've done nothing wrong, but once a legal document surfaces that proves that he or she was in the wrong, I stop. I am a fan of Brad Pitt, but if something like this came to light about him, I don't know that I could watch his movies anymore, much less defend him with blind loyalty.
Exactly. With the revelations, there is no denying that Joe Paterno actively covered for Jerry Sandusky and turned his back on those being abused. If you're still out there trying to defend JoePa, it might be time to re-evaluate things. I cannot believe some are still trying to protect his legacy. Stop it, people, right now!

Look at this crap:

Quote:
Matt Millen Still Defending Joe Paterno, Penn State

by Alfie Crow • Jul 12, 2012 11:27 AM EDT

In the wake of the Freeh Report that was released on Thursday morning, which presented damning evidence against Penn State University and former head coach Joe Paterno, there still seem to be a segment of people unwilling to blame Paterno.

Star-divide

Matt Millen, an ESPN analyst who played football at Penn State before going on to an NFL career as a player and later a team executive, is one of those people. Millen was on SportsCenter Thursday to discuss the findings, offering up some genuinely terrible comments and thoughts on the situation.

When the story first broke last year, Millen was one of many Penn Staters who defended Paterno, and he continues to defend his former coach even after the latest findings.

"In terms of the program itself, this was a very pristine program," Millen said on SportsCenter, to which I immediately blurted from my couch, "THE HELL IT WAS!" There is no form or fashion to call the Penn State program "pristine" after the findings of this report.

To make it worse, Millen went so far as to say Paterno's legacy shouldn't be tarnished, saying, "He made a mistake. Does that discount all the positives he did over 50 years?"

Yes, Matt Millen, it should. Shame on you for even thinking that.

Shame on ESPN for taking advantage of Millen in this situation as well, and for even putting him on the air to say these kind of things for a second go-round. It's understandable to want to have a reaction from someone connected to the program, but this is well beyond "conflict of interest."

Matt Millen Still Defending Joe Paterno, Penn State - From Our Editors - SBNation.com
I've always thought Millen was off his rocker and I knew the Lions were in trouble the second he get involved in their franchise but he hits an all time low here. I'd love to see how Millen and others who continue to defend would feel if children in their family would have been abused. ESPN should be ashamed for allowing this clown to state his stupid opinion. Children were raped, RAPED, you idiots and Paterno let it continue to happen! I cannot believe these fools are defending. Defend him but not the children who were violated in the most perverse, cruel kind of way. Wow, these people are crazy morons.

Last edited by jediwands; 07-13-2012 at 03:21 PM
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:04 AM
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I've never liked Matt Millen, and this just makes me feel more justified. Blind loyalty to someone is never a good thing, and it just goes to show a defect in his personality that he'd continue to blindly defend the man on this subject. I still wish that this had all come out while he was still alive so he would have had to answer for his behavior. All of his arguments in his defense kinda fall before what came out in that report, in my opinion.

And, you know what, I'm tired of seeing the 'he made a mistake; that shouldn't undo the good things he did argument.' That is such a BS argument. If you want to remember the good stuff he did, then that's fine. It probably should be remembered, but don't gloss over the bad stuff and act like it didn't happen. I mean, John Wayne Gacy was a community leader and charitable activist for 30 years. He even donated his time as Pogo the clown for various children's birthday parties. He also raped and murdered 33 men, burying 26 of them in the crawlspace under his house. I know that's not exactly the same level of what Paterno did, but it serves my point: I'm sure there are lots of people out there that Gacy helped. Heck, he even met Rosalynn Carter because of his efforts, but that shouldn't somehow soften the fact that he did horrible things. Paterno didn't actually do anything to those children, but he did have a chance to put a stop to a sexual predator, and instead he helped enable him and cover his crimes. It was bad enough when I just thought that he'd ignored what took place and was complacent. Now that it is apparent that he interceded on Sandusky's behalf and caused him not to be reported, his 'good name' will forever be ruined in my eyes. Just reporting what he saw to his bosses and not the authorities is a 'mistake.' Covering up sexual abuse isn't something that I could ever deem a simple mistake. Ever.
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Old 07-14-2012, 07:35 PM
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Paterno didn't actually do anything to those children, but he did have a chance to put a stop to a sexual predator, and instead he helped enable him and cover his crimes. It was bad enough when I just thought that he'd ignored what took place and was complacent. Now that it is apparent that he interceded on Sandusky's behalf and caused him not to be reported, his 'good name' will forever be ruined in my eyes. Just reporting what he saw to his bosses and not the authorities is a 'mistake.' Covering up sexual abuse isn't something that I could ever deem a simple mistake. Ever.
That's just it. He had an opportunity to stop this deviant and prevent more young men from suffering.
But....he chose to protect his football program and not lose one of his valued coaches.

And from what I understand, the civil loss suits are numerous against Penn State and people are actually donating to the school to help allay the costs. What is wrong with these people?!?
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan
And, you know what, I'm tired of seeing the 'he made a mistake; that shouldn't undo the good things he did argument.' That is such a BS argument. If you want to remember the good stuff he did, then that's fine. It probably should be remembered, but don't gloss over the bad stuff and act like it didn't happen. I mean, John Wayne Gacy was a community leader and charitable activist for 30 years. He even donated his time as Pogo the clown for various children's birthday parties. He also raped and murdered 33 men, burying 26 of them in the crawlspace under his house. I know that's not exactly the same level of what Paterno did, but it serves my point: I'm sure there are lots of people out there that Gacy helped. Heck, he even met Rosalynn Carter because of his efforts, but that shouldn't somehow soften the fact that he did horrible things. Paterno didn't actually do anything to those children, but he did have a chance to put a stop to a sexual predator, and instead he helped enable him and cover his crimes. It was bad enough when I just thought that he'd ignored what took place and was complacent. Now that it is apparent that he interceded on Sandusky's behalf and caused him not to be reported, his 'good name' will forever be ruined in my eyes. Just reporting what he saw to his bosses and not the authorities is a 'mistake.' Covering up sexual abuse isn't something that I could ever deem a simple mistake. Ever.
Agreed.

I studied Gacy in college. No one remembers the good things he did because the bad was way too horrific. Paterno allowed these crimes to continue on, he allowed children to be tortured and violated. Some even believe a child being raped is worse than death. That child is scarred forever and ever with the bad memories. Paterno had so much power because of all the money he personally accumulated for the University. He had power and an ego, an ego he believed could fix anything. I read he would personally "punish" football players when the University felt it was a united school issue. Paterno would say he would handle it, and the punishment was a joke. One situation was an assault a couple of his football players participated in. The college wanted to punish them, he said he would handle it, and they basically had to stay after practice and clean some stuff, that was it! I believe his ego and position at the college allowed him to believe he could handle anything. That is why he felt it was unnecessary to get the proper authorities involved. Problem is he never fully handled this! Even if he was scared of tarnishing his precious program and college in general, why didn't he walk up to Sandusky and say, "If you ever so much as touch another child again, I will personally rip your 'you know what' into pieces!" Not that it would have worked, but he never even tried to internally handle it by threatening Sandusky or even making him get some mental health... not saying this was the right thing to do since it's clearly a police situation but even so, he still didn't try to do ANYTHING to stop the rapist animal, Sandusky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betty
And from what I understand, the civil loss suits are numerous against Penn State and people are actually donating to the school to help allay the costs. What is wrong with these people?!?
They're crazy lunatics! It's unreal is what it is.

Another thing? They decided to keep his statue up... this is such a wrong move.. the reasoning was they didn't want to make a quick decision on this using emotion and not intellect so they will revisit it in a couple of months. Right, the stupid thing will stay up. Imagine the victims who still live in the area that have to drive past that statue daily and be constantly reminded of JoePa, the so called father of the community who never protected them as children? WHY should the victims have to see that statue? It is bunk. That sucker should be torn down.
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Old 07-16-2012, 04:32 PM
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Another thing? They decided to keep his statue up... this is such a wrong move.. the reasoning was they didn't want to make a quick decision on this using emotion and not intellect so they will revisit it in a couple of months. Right, the stupid thing will stay up. Imagine the victims who still live in the area that have to drive past that statue daily and be constantly reminded of JoePa, the so called father of the community who never protected them as children? WHY should the victims have to see that statue? It is bunk. That sucker should be torn down.
It's ridiculous. He has lost any reason to deserve the honor of having a statue of himself on campus. If I were the family of one of the victims, I would be tempted to personally tear it down.
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:27 PM
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It's ridiculous. He has lost any reason to deserve the honor of having a statue of himself on campus. If I were the family of one of the victims, I would be tempted to personally tear it down.
I agree. I heard a good one today..."Penn State will keep the Joe Paterno statue, but they will now have it looking the other way."

The Joe Pa supporters would riot in the streets, they are still and will remain in serious denial that their hero was a pedophile enabler. Turning a blind eye to child abuse and RAPE and indirectly contributing to that by allowing it to continue is wrong. Yes he may have been a wonderful coach, but he was a terrible human being.

That stupid statue should be ripped down and completely destroyed.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:12 PM
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I had in mind other question, but the topic that you are discussing now triggered another one. I can't discuss this specific case, because I'm not familiar with the case and I usually don't say an opinion until I know all the facts.

Anyway here is the question. What do you thinks is worse: - committing a crime (like rape, murder) or knowing about the crime and covering it up?

Who would you blame more? The person that commit the crime or the one that doesn't do anything to stop him/her?
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