Everwood - Everwood Melting Pot (OT3) #4: Cultural Exchange

everwoodfan52 · 07-22-2009, 03:25 PM

I'm bringing over 'Tos's last comment and discussion question:

Quote:

What do you think about the recent drama of the health care plan, fellow political nerds, hee?

And to go back to the international view of America as a conservative country, I think you both hit it with the fact that our left-wing parties, and even our right-wing parties, are so far left compared to yours. Our government up here is a Conservative party, but they're...actually probably closer to the Democrats than anything. And even further left in some issues, especially social issues. Unfortunately, the Democratic party still cannot promote a pro-gay marriage stance, while all of the left wing parties (and a lot of the right-wing parties) in other countries can. I actually think that fact is one of the bigger reasons why foreigners see America as conservative. We look at what happened in California, one of the more liberal states, with the Gay Marriage proposition, and we think, "If California couldn't pass a pro-gay marriage bill, than what does that say?" It's not a fair perception, I agree, but as a non-American, I do think the social issues are a big reason why the country as a whole is seen as conservative.

everwoodfan52 · 07-22-2009, 05:21 PM

What do you think about the recent drama of the health care plan, fellow political nerds, hee?

I honestly believe that this new Obama health care program is going to have great deal of difficulty being approved. Even democrats who should have loyalty to Obama are skeptical about the huge expense of this plan.
Another concern is that many people going from the private healthcare to government run public health care would cause many problems. This might include the government setting lower reimbursement rates for doctors, hospitals, etc.. Since the health care providers will lose much revenue......it could mean lower quality care, shortages in doctors and hospitals, and higher costs for those who have private health care. That would make private health care coverage worse than it is now!

'Tos · 07-22-2009, 05:28 PM

Thanks for the new thread, Betty.

I'll be back to respond to yours (and others) comments later as I'm going out, but it's pretty fascinating watching a country and a president try to reform health care to this degree, I have to say. Obviously reform is needed, but the price tag on this is going to be hard to justify with the deficit spiraling out of control even before Obama became president, and then with the recession still there. I agree, it's going to be difficult to get something like this approved. Did Bush try to reform health care to this extent? Did Clinton? Or have recent presidents tried to reform it in smaller ways?

I just hope that Obama isn't hurt too much by this. It's obvious that the country needs some kind of reform. He's got one plan, he knows it needs to be improved. It's getting pretty partisan, though. Even by Obama. And I thought the stimulus package was going to be the height of drama!

Oh no, no no no.

everwoodfan52 · 07-22-2009, 05:36 PM

Hi, 'Tos. Yeah, I've got to remember to quote all quotes!

'Tos · 07-23-2009, 04:55 PM

I thought that this was an interesting article about the health care reform and the trouble Obama is having pushing it through:

Quote:

Obama sets a no-excuses deadline for health-care reform
John Ibbitson

His hopes for fundamental reform to America's troubled health-care system endangered by a revolt from within his own party, Barack Obama Wednesday night staked his presidency on an ultimatum.

Americans “are looking to us for leadership, and we must not let them down,” the President vowed in a prime-time press conference.

“We will pass reform that lowers cost, promotes choice, and provides coverage that every American can count on. And we will do it this year.”

With that stark declaration, Mr. Obama threw down a gauntlet to his Republican opponents and to nervous Democrats worried about what reform might cost.

With opposition growing and Mr. Obama's popularity slipping, hopes that legislation could be passed before Congress rises for its August vacation at the end of next week are fading.

By nonetheless imposing an end-of-year deadline for final passage of a bill, the President is gambling all of his political capital on success. If the year passes without his signature on a bill, the political costs of such failure will be enormous.

Negotiations to craft a reform bill have been complicated by so-called Blue Dog Democrats in the House of Representatives. They are alarmed at projections from the Congressional Budget Office that the current plan would increase the deficit by $239-billion (U.S) over 10 years, the very opposite of the administration's goal of expanding coverage while reining in spiralling expenses.

Conservative Democrats in the House energy and commerce committee are holding up passage of the bill until their cost concerns are met.

Representatives and senators, especially those in the Senate finance committee, are negotiating non-stop in an effort to craft legislation that extends benefits without increasing costs.

Dick Durbin, Senate Majority Whip, predicted Wednesday that the Senate would fail to pass legislation before the August break. “We're going to take a little longer to get it right,” he told The Hill newspaper.

By nonetheless imposing an end-of-year deadline, Mr. Obama is warning Congress that it can talk, but it must also ultimately act.

“If you don't set deadlines in this town, things don't happen,” he told reporters. “The default position is inertia, because doing something always creates some people who are unhappy.” But he maintained, “The stars are aligned and we need to take advantage of that.”

At the heart of Mr. Obama's proposal is a public health-insurance program that would compete with private insurers and that would, in theory, drive down costs over time.

The Republican opposition in Congress has warned that people would be forced out of their existing plans and into some statist monstrosity (the word “Canadian” is often invoked) in which faceless bureaucrats decide what treatments patients would receive.

“If they try to fix our health-care system like they've tried to rescue our economy, I think we're in really, really big trouble,” House Minority Leader John Boehner told reporters Wednesday.

The GOP attacks are working. The President's approval rating has dropped to 55 per cent, according to a new Associated Press-GfK poll, down from 64 per cent in late May and early June.

Although half of those polled approve of Mr. Obama's handling of health care, 43 per cent disapprove, a number that has risen sharply since April.

In response, the president reminded his critics of the 47 million Americans who have no coverage at all, of the millions more whose coverage is inadequate.

“This is about every family, every business and every taxpayer who continues to shoulder the burden of a problem that Washington has failed to solve for decades,” he said.

Beyond the question of the legislation itself is the question of Mr. Obama's political skills. By imposing a no-excuses deadline, the President has gambled that he can manage congressional opposition from Republicans and from members within his own party.

If he fails, and health-care legislation does go down in defeat, the President's agenda on the environment, immigration and education will lie in shambles.

Earlier this week and again Wednesday night, Mr. Obama quoted Republican Senator Jim DeMint, who said, “If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him.”

But though some conservative commentators are predicting that Congress will never pass a bill Mr. Obama can sign – William Kristol of the Weekly Standard urged Republicans this week to “go for the kill,” as Mr. Obama noted – it would be risky to bet that Mr. Obama will fail.

Those conservative Democratic representatives holding up the legislation will have to compromise at some point. Otherwise, they will have to explain to voters in their district during midterm elections next year why they torpedoed the most important priority of their own party leader and of most Americans as well.

The White House, similarly, will be prepared to make trades to ensure that legislation of some kind or other sees the light of day.

One significant breakthrough came Wednesday, when the Blue Dogs and House energy-and-commerce-committee chairman Henry Waxman agreed that an independent panel should be given the power to set fees and make cuts.

Also in Mr. Obama's corner are industry associations, such as the American Medical Association and the American Nurses Association, who have opposed previous reforms. Business groups are also onside, as corporations struggle to meet the ever-escalating costs of insuring workers.

And reasonable legislators of both parties know that government simply must reform a health-care system that costs almost twice as much as that provided by other industrial countries, and that is expected to soon envelop one-fifth of the American economy.

Mr. Obama took pains to remind viewers of those truths Wednesday night.

“If we do not control these costs, we will not be able to control our deficit,” he maintained. “If we do not reform health care, your premiums and out-of-pocket costs will continue to skyrocket. If we do not act, 14,000 Americans will continue to lose their health insurance every single day.

“These are the consequences of inaction. These are the stakes of the debate we're having right now.”

His success or failure as a president is at stake as well.

Obama sets a no-excuses deadline for health-care reform - The Globe and Mail

And it's Canadian!

Heh.

**jediwands** · 07-24-2009, 08:48 AM

I feel like this is a very complicated issue, obviously.

What President Obama ultimately wants to do makes sense but the fact of the matter is the economy (thanks to Bush and his conservative ways) is still a mess and so money is an issue right now as a result. So the reason why this proposal looks "bad" is because of what Bush has done to this country for 8 years, not because President Obama is coming up with a ridiculous proposal. He's not, but it's only "ridiculous" because he is trying to push something that at this time cannot work given what the state of this country is in economically, again, due to Bush for 8 years.

I have believed in Universal health care forever and so I am even more liberal on this stance but the problem is the country has been set up giving private insurances so much power and the fact of the matter is these private insurances have screwed their patients for years as well.

It's a complicated, messy issue.

I am a patient at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, so I am getting the best health care that I possibly could receive anywhere, obviously. A little tidbit on the amazing Mayo Clinic? Did you know that none of the doctors at Mayo have any idea what insurance you have? And more importantly, they don't care? They will treat you in the same way with the same extensive testing that someone with government assisted insurance has as well as someone with "good" insurance. Which is why I love Mayo not only for what it is about, but for this reason alone. I remember the one nurse at Mayo told me that at Mayo they do not care about making money, they care about saving lives, and that is about as good as it gets. And save lives, they very much do, not just American lives but people come from all across the world to Mayo.

However, I heard even Mayo Clinic stated this proposal wouldn't be a good thing right now and they speak from obviously a very unbiased view given what I stated above so that lifted my eyebrows a bit.

It should be interesting to see what happens.

'Tos · 07-24-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

What President Obama ultimately wants to do makes sense but the fact of the matter is the economy (thanks to Bush and his conservative ways) is still a mess and so money is an issue right now as a result. So the reason why this proposal looks "bad" is because of what Bush has done to this country for 8 years, not because President Obama is coming up with a ridiculous proposal. He's not, but it's only "ridiculous" because he is trying to push something that at this time cannot work given what the state of this country is in economically, again, due to Bush for 8 years.

And I think that's where one of his mistakes have been so far with the health care reform: he hasn't tied it into the economy as well as he could have. People separate the two to a large extent, so they're asking why he's trying to fix health care when he hasn't even fixed the economy. He's definitely said a few things about how health care and the economy are tied together, but not enough IMO. He's kind of creating his own problems by trying to push this through right now when everyone is worrying about money (which, as you stated, is a problem that Bush created), and not caring about the benefits of any such plan. I think it's part of his inexperience to be honest. I like that he's trying to do a lot as there's a lot to fix, but until the economy gets better, people won't be listening to anything else he's trying to do, and that's why his poll numbers are slipping, in my opinion.

Interesting (and great) to hear about the Mayo Clinic, by the way.

**jediwands** · 07-26-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Tos (View Post)

And I think that's where one of his mistakes have been so far with the health care reform: he hasn't tied it into the economy as well as he could have. People separate the two to a large extent, so they're asking why he's trying to fix health care when he hasn't even fixed the economy. He's definitely said a few things about how health care and the economy are tied together, but not enough IMO. He's kind of creating his own problems by trying to push this through right now when everyone is worrying about money (which, as you stated, is a problem that Bush created), and not caring about the benefits of any such plan. I think it's part of his inexperience to be honest. I like that he's trying to do a lot as there's a lot to fix, but until the economy gets better, people won't be listening to anything else he's trying to do, and that's why his poll numbers are slipping, in my opinion.

I agree wholeheartedly. Americans, especially the moderates who voted for him, aren't stupid and they are very in the know as far as what the state of the economy is in, WHY it is in this state (Bush) and I think they gave him a break as a result because if you go by history, the democrat in office WILL eventually fix the economy. The rich people won't like it quite much because they won't see the perks they receive under the conservative plan but the people who truly need some help with getting jobs, keeping jobs, being able to pay the bills and provide for themselves and/or their families will eventually get helped out under a democratic president. I think Americans realize this is going to get fixed, not overnight, but the bottom line is it will take place under President Obama. However, his jumping with the health care issue right now is just really bad timing because money is such a huge problem right now. You cannot dwindle around two big problems (the economy and health care) and think you can solve both at the same time. Take care of the economy first, hell, so many Americans are suffering without health insurance and this has been going on forever so what is a little more time in this state if it means fixing one problem, THEN tackling health care after that? Both have to be fixed and massively I might add. But one at a time.

Quote:

Interesting (and great) to hear about the Mayo Clinic, by the way.

Yeah, it's really awesome, man.

Of course this is a joke for me to say this because it's already known, but I HIGHLY recommend that anyone go there for a general physical, a specific health issue, whatever your needs are. They are incredible down there. Absolutely incredible. They treat you like you are the most important person on the planet in every way and you know they are not missing anything as well. They will take care of you. They are on top of every disease you could possibly think of, they are the best, and they have the greatest capabilities down there due to the research they do, the doctors down there who work at the clinic and do research sometimes 20/24 hours a day. I know this because the nurse told me my main doctor who is a Gastroenterologist literally has a schedule like that. She is the best btw. Heh. So witty, down to earth, so highly intelligent, she was telling me things about my health BEFORE I even told her about them! I'm serious. She had me analyzed like as a child and whatever digestive issue I had and why I had it, not to mention other issues regarding other parts of my health, within about 30 seconds of talking to me. She calls me on my cell phone to keep in touch on her own... a specialist at Mayo who is written up in journals all around the world for her expertise, talent and abilities. It's pretty amazing.

Which is why I cannot shut up about the Mayo Clinic experience because I want everyone to have access to it if they can and know that they do have this just like I do even if I am only one hour from there. Doesn't matter, anyone can go down there and take advantage of their care no matter what country you are from.

Mayo Clinic Rochester, Minnesota, I mean. I know there are Mayo Clinics in both Florida and Arizona, I believe, and while they are good, the "real" Mayo Clinic is in Rochester, Minnesota. Both are like satellite clinics but the headquarters, where you want to go, is in Rochester, Minnesota.

'Tos · 07-26-2009, 10:19 PM

Quote:

I agree wholeheartedly. Americans, especially the moderates who voted for him, aren't stupid and they are very in the know as far as what the state of the economy is in, WHY it is in this state (Bush) and I think they gave him a break as a result because if you go by history, the democrat in office WILL eventually fix the economy. The rich people won't like it quite much because they won't see the perks they receive under the conservative plan but the people who truly need some help with getting jobs, keeping jobs, being able to pay the bills and provide for themselves and/or their families will eventually get helped out under a democratic president. I think Americans realize this is going to get fixed, not overnight, but the bottom line is it will take place under President Obama. However, his jumping with the health care issue right now is just really bad timing because money is such a huge problem right now. You cannot dwindle around two big problems (the economy and health care) and think you can solve both at the same time. Take care of the economy first, hell, so many Americans are suffering without health insurance and this has been going on forever so what is a little more time in this state if it means fixing one problem, THEN tackling health care after that? Both have to be fixed and massively I might add. But one at a time.

Definitely. One at a time is the way to go. He's got so much to do with the economy still, although he's made some good headway. The regulation overhauls still need to actually be passed yet, and that should be the major topic of discussion and work for the administration at the moment. How the country regulates the financial system is going to be one of the biggest issues of the term, and nobody is talking about it. Partly, now, because of the health care debate. He's over-shadowing a lot of good work that he's doing or trying to do on the economy, so he's barely getting any credit for the good that's going on with it because he's starting other things at the same time. As you said, bad timing. He was voted in because of the economy, and he knows that, so everything should be about the economy. That's simple PR. Of course, it's not a bad thing that he's trying to fix health care because it obviously needs to be done, but it's just complicating the work he already has infront of him with the economy. As you said, the health care can wait a little while with something as huge as getting the country out of a recession.

That's so cool that you have so much experience in such an incredible and world-renowned hospital!

They're definitely keeping care of you and a LOT of others. It's so great that you live close to it, but absolutely, it's a great option for anybody that needs the services that they provide. And they provide a lot, hee.

everwoodfan52 · 07-27-2009, 04:52 AM

Quote:

That's so cool that you have so much experience in such an incredible and world-renowned hospital! They're definitely keeping care of you and a LOT of others. It's so great that you live close to it, but absolutely, it's a great option for anybody that needs the services that they provide. And they provide a lot, hee.

Didn't Andy send Evelyn there?

'Tos · 07-27-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by everwoodfan52 (View Post)

Didn't Andy send Evelyn there?

YES! Exactly! Hee. I was trying to think when I had heard of the Mayo Clinic on TV recently, and it was Everwood. That would have bugged me for a couple of days had you not mentioned that, Betty.

Here's an article about the changes being proposed to Obama's health care plan. Nothing special, but one quote in particular stood out to me:

Quote:

Obama's top domestic priority has suffered numerous setbacks in recent weeks

His top domestic priority??!? It shouldn't be. And it hopefully isn't, but a lot of people are talking about the health care plan like it is his #1 priority. As is the media. And as we've talked about, Obama has kind of let people think this, unfortunately, because he has rarely talked about the economy in the last few weeks at all.

everwoodfan52 · 08-05-2009, 07:19 AM

Obama's ratings have been on the decline.
Here is an interesting article about it from The Economist.

A difficult summer for the White House: Crunch time | The Economist

ETA: Very interesting clip:

http://aclu.org/pizza/images/screen.swf

'Tos · 08-05-2009, 10:05 PM

Interesting article. Thanks, Betty.

Obviously the health care problems have been taking down his poll numbers quickly. That's a problem of his own making. He's rushing into health care reform in the middle of a period where he should be focusing squarely on the economy. Inexperience.

Another factor is that, well, the Republicans are learning how to hurt him effectively. They couldn't do it during the election, but right now they are. Part of it is the typical fear tactics, and part of it is also problems of Obama's own making. Like rushing into health care so that the Republicans can use economic scare tactics. If he had the economy fixed (or as fixed as you can get it), these tactics wouldn't be so effective. But the Republics have some confidence, so they're twisting his words, twisting his policies, and have muddled the health care debate and, frankly, a lot of people are believing them. He's got to get control of his policy and his message deliver it, because it's just simply not working right now. Which goes into my next problem.

He's basically alone out there. He's got nobody talking for him, he's having to do all the selling, all by himself. He's a great talker, and a great seller, but he can't do it all by himself. And he's tried to for far too long. There are other people in that administration that should be doing more of the talking and the selling. It's basically him and a few others against the Republican party. If he wants to continue pushing this health care plan, and he's showing no signs of letting up despite the fact that it's overshadowing his economic priority, then he's going to need to get a face out there that can push it. He can't be the face of every policy that he's putting out there to this extent.

SPORTSUSA · 08-07-2009, 02:56 PM

Michelle, Mayo Clinic is stunning. I have been there, never as a patient but just touring that place is totally outstanding. You feel you are touring a masterpiece, it's unbelieeeeeeeeeevable down there! I know if something ever bad happens to anyone I know health-wise I will personally escort them down to Mayo Clinic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Tos (View Post)

Another factor is that, well, the Republicans are learning how to hurt him effectively. They couldn't do it during the election, but right now they are. Part of it is the typical fear tactics, and part of it is also problems of Obama's own making. Like rushing into health care so that the Republicans can use economic scare tactics. If he had the economy fixed (or as fixed as you can get it), these tactics wouldn't be so effective. But the Republics have some confidence, so they're twisting his words, twisting his policies, and have muddled the health care debate and, frankly, a lot of people are believing them.

Thank you.

To be honest and blunt (aren't I always? LOL) this makes me sick. It's so easy for people to talk about his ratings slipping and wow this must mean he's doing a bad job but that's not the fricken case. Look at what he has had to deal with? A president for 8 years who was quite possibly one of the worst we have EVER had!

President Obama cannot work miracles in this short amount of time. Jesus, give him some time to work some things out. The Republicans are sitting there trying to twist everything, almost making it seem like this is ALL his doing! You cannot erase 8 years of screw ups this quickly and for people who think this, they are either republicans wanting to take down Obama at any cost or just naive. WTF.

The Republicans should worry more about why their policies never work instead of trying to take President Obama down. Are they scared that the people who actually need medical attention and money might actually get some and their rich friends won't get richer? WTF. This fumes me so much.

ETA: I do agree that President Obama might be playing into this all the more but in my mind he will get all of this done in the end so who cares. He will succeed and might be making himself an easy target in some ways but it doesn't change the fact that he will get it done which is all that matters anyway.

**jediwands** · 08-08-2009, 10:01 PM

Yeah, Mayo Clinic is awesome. I mean, it is Mayo Clinic after all... you know you are getting the best care, but there's so much more to it like when I mentioned they aren't out for making money, they are out for saving lives and that is the truth. It's amazing. I will not shut up about Mayo since I have personally experienced it and I want people to get there if they need the care and help, they can do it and they should. They never turn a single person away. They don't care about what you can offer them, it is all about what they can offer you and they will offer you the best possible care you can get.

Regarding President Obama and what is going on. I agree with Erin that there is no possibility to immediately erase eight years of Bush. No way. The hole we are in is massive and we are still digging ourselves out of it. The Republicans are pathetically trying to pin this on President Obama. I do agree that he is giving them ammunition to do just that because he wants to solve 2/3 huge issues at once and it cannot be done. He has to focus on the economy first then health care after that. That's exactly why he was voted in, for what Bush did to the economy. Fix it! The thing is he knows exactly how to fix this, it does take time, but he knows what to do. But instead of making huge moves towards health care we need to see more progress and get greater assurance that the economy is starting to show signs of bouncing back before he jumps to health care. Health care has been a mess forever. It can wait. I know that's horrible to say but it's true. This is a huge problem but it has been a huge problem for a long while now. However, due to this fact it makes all the more sense that the economy needs fixed before jumping to the problems we have with health care! You cannot attempt to fix health care without money. It really is that basic. Fix the economy, then fix health care. The American people are counting on this economy to be fixed. The polls are showing this over and over again. Americans are willing to sacrifice the other issues as long as the economy starts improving since it's also common sense that you cannot fix those other things without a growing economy!

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