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Old 02-15-2022, 08:59 AM
  #16
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It really did. What helped is that the entire season was filmed before the first episode aired, so it played out like a mini-series and it wasn't influenced by the fanbase. Season One was the only season that Kevin Williamson put his heart and soul into. No one thought that the show would be renewed as it was a mid-season replacement show with only 13 episodes, but it was in the right place at the right time and it became tremendously popular (for The WB) and it got renewed, but Williamson, following the pattern he's now so well known for, gave the show only half his attention in Season Two and he walked away from the show entirely at the end of Season Two, and the show suffered for it.
Exactly right. Seriously, it should have concluded after the 13 or Williamson never should have started to walk away. One or the other had to take place or else the series would fail. We saw what happened. A certain part of this fandom entered the writers room and started scribbling away.
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Old 02-15-2022, 09:01 AM
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I cheered so loud in 98 with the ending. It was all building up to that beautiful moment.
I did, too. It was fresh, quality writing which backed up precisely what was hinted at for 13 whole episodes, that was the conclusion of S1. It should have been a wrap.
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Old 02-15-2022, 09:05 AM
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Lol go to number 20. He admits he knew how it should end. What a joke https://ew.com/tv/100-best-tv-romances-of-all-time/
Good morning laugh. Wow.
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Old 02-15-2022, 11:00 PM
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One of the most aggravating and annoying things about Williamson as a writer is that when he's good, he's really good, but when he's bad, he's really bad, and the small snippet in that linked article? Yeah, that's him when he's bad.

His fatal flaw is his inability to complete anything he does and hands off his work to people who aren't qualified enough to manage it. Whether it's the Scream movies, Dawson's Creek, Vampire Diaries...all of his most notable works are ones he's never actually finished. With his lack of commitment to be there for the beginning, middle, and end of something, it makes him someone I can't trust despite the gems he's able to show off every now and then.

He treats his individual projects like they're toys; picking them up only when it grabs his interest. It's childish behavior and it's consistent behavior. With all this in mind, if I had a TV network or a streaming service, I would never pick up a Williamson project because of this.
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Old 02-16-2022, 12:48 PM
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^ So well said. 100% agreed.
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Old 02-19-2022, 07:30 PM
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Incredible process, especially since S2 is what you couldn’t view in full right away (PA). I bet it was really confusing for you. I would have loved viewing your research.

What did you think of Katie/Joey right away without knowing the full story initially? Wondering if you thought she was a terrible actress/bad character from the start.
Season one I liked the Joey character. I was not really impressed with her talents as an actress. She was adequate, maybe a bit more. Season two I started disliking the Joey character and by the end of the series I despised her. Also in my opinion her acting skills diminished as the series went on. Maybe she was reading to many of her press clippings
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Old 02-19-2022, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Xelphia Kenny (View Post)
One of the most aggravating and annoying things about Williamson as a writer is that when he's good, he's really good, but when he's bad, he's really bad, and the small snippet in that linked article? Yeah, that's him when he's bad.

His fatal flaw is his inability to complete anything he does and hands off his work to people who aren't qualified enough to manage it. Whether it's the Scream movies, Dawson's Creek, Vampire Diaries...all of his most notable works are ones he's never actually finished. With his lack of commitment to be there for the beginning, middle, and end of something, it makes him someone I can't trust despite the gems he's able to show off every now and then.

He treats his individual projects like they're toys; picking them up only when it grabs his interest. It's childish behavior and it's consistent behavior. With all this in mind, if I had a TV network or a streaming service, I would never pick up a Williamson project because of this.
That's so true and so perfectly put. Kevin Williamson never finishes what he starts and he always leaves his shows in the hands of incompetent people who turn the shows into bad caricatures of what they started out to be.
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Old 02-19-2022, 08:02 PM
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Incredible process, especially since S2 is what you couldn’t view in full right away (PA). I bet it was really confusing for you. I would have loved viewing your research.

What did you think of Katie/Joey right away without knowing the full story initially? Wondering if you thought she was a terrible actress/bad character from the start.
I had mixed feelings about Katie/Joey in Season One as I never liked how she treated Jen, but I thought that she did a decent job as the forlorn underdog who secretly longed to be with her best friend but who was too afraid to express her feelings.

I thought that Katie had some potential to be a decent actress, but once the show shifted to make her the IT Girl of the show that no mere mortal could resist, I think the adulation went to her head and she just mugged for the camera, and her scenes with Pacey were especially nauseating as they played cutesy with each other. Since the show ended, Katie just played the same "cute" character in most of the movies she was in, and now she's just tabloid fodder and her roles have mostly dried up since she isn't so young and cute anymore.
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Old 02-19-2022, 10:57 PM
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I had mixed feelings about Katie/Joey in Season One as I never liked how she treated Jen, but I thought that she did a decent job as the forlorn underdog who secretly longed to be with her best friend but who was too afraid to express her feelings.
.
I liked Joey in S1 but I agree, she upset me with how she treated Jen. I did think for a newcomer KH did pretty good in S1. The scene with her dad at the prison at night really was good acting on her part.
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Old 02-20-2022, 08:05 AM
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Season one I liked the Joey character. I was not really impressed with her talents as an actress. She was adequate, maybe a bit more. Season two I started disliking the Joey character and by the end of the series I despised her. Also in my opinion her acting skills diminished as the series went on. Maybe she was reading to many of her press clippings
Gosh, I could. Not. Agree. More.

So well said.
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Old 02-20-2022, 08:08 AM
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I had mixed feelings about Katie/Joey in Season One as I never liked how she treated Jen, but I thought that she did a decent job as the forlorn underdog who secretly longed to be with her best friend but who was too afraid to express her feelings.

I thought that Katie had some potential to be a decent actress, but once the show shifted to make her the IT Girl of the show that no mere mortal could resist, I think the adulation went to her head and she just mugged for the camera, and her scenes with Pacey were especially nauseating as they played cutesy with each other. Since the show ended, Katie just played the same "cute" character in most of the movies she was in, and now she's just tabloid fodder and her roles have mostly dried up since she isn't so young and cute anymore.
I think the IT girl status combined with finding Cruise shortly thereafter prevented her from using any potential she had to be an above average actress. She wasted too much time on embracing superficial (being a face) and of course, finding a loon like Cruise and it cost her dearly.
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Old 02-20-2022, 08:09 AM
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I liked Joey in S1 but I agree, she upset me with how she treated Jen. I did think for a newcomer KH did pretty good in S1. The scene with her dad at the prison at night really was good acting on her part.
I liked that scene too. Even at her best, Katie is no Emily VanCamp but it was scenes like this one where you could at least see the potential.
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Old 02-20-2022, 06:52 PM
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Random Dawson Creek thoughts

1.At beginning of the series I liked Katie. I was impressed she declined an audition because she had committed to a high school play. To me that showed good character. By the end of the series Katie had become Joey Most actors define a role, she let a role define her. Joey at the end of the series was a unlikable person. Katie from what I can tell now is a unlikable person. As demonstrated by her breaking up an engaged couple so she could date a guy who was ten or more years younger than her. Actually the spurned girl was lucky. She lost a man with weak character.....All this has been discussed before.

2.Making Jack gay. I have said many times that was the start of the decline of the series. Kerr Smith was hired to be Dawson's rival for the affections of Joey. The actor was told this when hired, so when they sprung the gay thing on Kerr, he was not happy, but needed a job and stayed. So with Jack out of the picture Greg Berlanti uttered these fateful words. "Pacey kisses Joey" and the series was ruined. But Berlanti and Williamson already had their gay character. Doug Comments made season one indicated Doug may be gay. They should have pursued that path, instead of taking Jack out of the Joey sweepstakes. This would have left Pacey and Andie alone as was in my opinion the original intent of Williamson. That also would have allowed Jack and Jen to have a romantic relationship at some point.

3. Killing Jen. There could be no other girl left standing at the end of the series Audrey is in rehab, Andie is in Italy and the only girl left standing is Joey with her flock of love stricken, my life is over boys. No wonder Katie's ego went through the roof. Also in my opinion the real reason Andie's hospital scenes were cut. She was to close to Pacey, and as every good Pacey/Andie fan knows: they would have found a motel before their coffee was finished.

Thoughts?
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Old 02-21-2022, 08:22 AM
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Random Dawson Creek thoughts

1.At beginning of the series I liked Katie. I was impressed she declined an audition because she had committed to a high school play. To me that showed good character. By the end of the series Katie had become Joey Most actors define a role, she let a role define her. Joey at the end of the series was a unlikable person. Katie from what I can tell now is a unlikable person. As demonstrated by her breaking up an engaged couple so she could date a guy who was ten or more years younger than her. Actually the spurned girl was lucky. She lost a man with weak character.....All this has been discussed before.

2.Making Jack gay. I have said many times that was the start of the decline of the series. Kerr Smith was hired to be Dawson's rival for the affections of Joey. The actor was told this when hired, so when they sprung the gay thing on Kerr, he was not happy, but needed a job and stayed. So with Jack out of the picture Greg Berlanti uttered these fateful words. "Pacey kisses Joey" and the series was ruined. But Berlanti and Williamson already had their gay character. Doug Comments made season one indicated Doug may be gay. They should have pursued that path, instead of taking Jack out of the Joey sweepstakes. This would have left Pacey and Andie alone as was in my opinion the original intent of Williamson. That also would have allowed Jack and Jen to have a romantic relationship at some point.

3. Killing Jen. There could be no other girl left standing at the end of the series Audrey is in rehab, Andie is in Italy and the only girl left standing is Joey with her flock of love stricken, my life is over boys. No wonder Katie's ego went through the roof. Also in my opinion the real reason Andie's hospital scenes were cut. She was to close to Pacey, and as every good Pacey/Andie fan knows: they would have found a motel before their coffee was finished.

Thoughts?
1. Totally agree. Katie started out with promise and finding out her loyalty to her high school was endearing. She had potential but it was thrown away since she let the IT girl title go to her head. Any promise she had in the acting department was lost and shoved aside since she preferred being the princess of the WB. She traded in short-term superficial success for long-term respect and stability.

I liked S1 Joey. She was my favorite character. I am even in the camp where I can understand why Joey felt threatened by Jen and didn’t treat her ideally. Not that I loved the treatment but it was understandable why she felt jealous and threatened by a beautiful big city girl that immediately Dawson had a crush on. It made sense to me. Especially since her mother died and she was still dealing with feelings of abandonment and loss of love. Her own father was in prison. She deserved to be screwed up. She didn’t want to lose Dawson as well. It all made sense. But it was a fast transition because I went from loving the character to hating the character. S2 she started becoming unrecognizable and it got worse from that point forward. By S6 I was hoping for Joey’s tragic death in the series finale, a rekindling of the Dawson/Pacey friendship, Pacey/Andie reunion, and a hint of Dawson and Jen possibly reuniting.

2. I wonder why they decided to have Jack a gay character, especially since it wasn’t the original intention. Yes, they just could have had an ongoing triangle between Dawson/Joey/Jack especially since everyone knows Dawson and Joey would win out in the end. You’re right… this was the biggest mistake because Berlanti (a DJ fan and said as much) never would have come up with the lame Pacey/Joey nightmare. Never would have happened. I’m actually in the minority and never really felt connected to the Jen and Jack friendship. For that matter, I didn’t really like Jack all that much. He was okay but didn’t emotionally connect to him like I did Andie. I think Andie’s scenes were limited in S3 because TPTB decided Jack was more important, especially when the Pacey/Joey nightmare was in play. I think it was the acting because while Kerr isn’t terrible, Meredith is excellent and I could embrace Andie much more. Yes, if Jack would have been straight Jen and Jack could have been an important love story which also means most likely Jen doesn’t die. I would have preferred Doug coming out much earlier. It would’ve been a compelling storyline having a police officer come out as gay in a small conservative town. I would’ve loved to have seen it, especially Pacey’s reaction considering how he stupidly indirectly bullied him. What a wonderful storyline it would’ve been seeing Doug come out, being accepted as a gay police officer in a small conservative town. THAT was the storyline which would have made a great point about real life (kindness, understanding, and love) in general.

3. There’s zero reason why Jen was killed off. Williamson lost his mind. They are suffering from karma as a result knowing any reunion or movie cannot include the brilliant Michelle Williams. What a slice of karma. Yes, it appears Jen died to prop Joey all the more. Joey wins everything, Jen gets nothing. It is like TPTB were determined to see Joey with the W and Jen with the L. They even let Jen have a child only to lose her early on in life. It was absolutely despicable. Andie’s scenes with Pacey in the finale would have watered down anything Joey Potter and since everyone associated with making the series was under a magical spell thinking Katie was the next Meryl Streep they had to destroy or ignore everything in the way of Joey and the IT girl.

A once promising series was an utter failure in the end.

Last edited by jediwands; 02-21-2022 at 08:39 AM
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Old 02-26-2022, 11:52 PM
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Hey ya'll. I finally did it. I finished the entire series. Now I can join everyone in episodic discussions.
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